Should Guns Be The Centre of The Gun Control Debate?

Have philosophical discussions about politics, law, and government.
Featured Article: Definition of Freedom - What Freedom Means to Me
Post Reply
User avatar
TigerNinja
Posts: 92
Joined: July 23rd, 2016, 3:59 am

Should Guns Be The Centre of The Gun Control Debate?

Post by TigerNinja » April 9th, 2018, 4:47 pm

I live in the UK, where it is quite relaxed calm in terms of gun culture. In fact, most people don't even know that certain rifles and shotguns are legal in the UK, yet nevertheless, they are, and certain people are interested in firearms. The gun control debate has recently been blowing up, yet are the guns the problem. In the UK, despite the presence of certain legal guns, most gun crime is committed with illegal handguns? I personally think that there is a clear reason for this. In my opinion, this is because of culture, and not because of the weapons themselves. The culture in America related to firearms is one of much higher fascination, however in the UK, this fascination is closer to "I got a 360 no scope on Call of Duty". In America the culture is more physical, in that you can use a rifle and fewer people are there to say "That's not right". I think that overall, there is a larger gun culture in America, which is one of the reasons why there is more gun crime. Guns are more accessible. That does not mean, however, that you should just evacuate houses of their firearms. I think that the culture is what should be changed. This is not an easy task to undertake. You need to quietly make America 'forget' about their guns. I suppose that this should be approached by trying to change the process by which you get a gun. In Britain, you undergo a test on gun safety, you have to have a reasonable reason to have a gun, and you must be mentally fit to have a gun (I do not know the process in America. If it is the same I'm stumped on what to do).

What do I suggest we do with our present guns? Leave them! Gun crime will still be present but taking away all guns will result in more illegal guns. Leave the legal guns, because the crime will sort itself out over time. You could say "But aren't you immorally wasting the lives of people who die from gun crime" to which I ask you if you want me to predict the future of each crime? Would you kill 2 people if 20 lived in the future? This is a similar situation, and I couldn't even predict the remaining crimes to occur so you couldn't hold me reprehensible for leaving the remaining guns with which crime is committed. A crime is committed. A misused gun is removed. Less guns used illegally when the guns are more difficult to acquire and so forth. With time, the gun crimes will progressively die down. I hope.
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer

Eduk
Posts: 1793
Joined: December 8th, 2016, 7:08 am
Favorite Philosopher: Socrates

Re: Should Guns Be The Centre of The Gun Control Debate?

Post by Eduk » April 10th, 2018, 1:21 pm

I suspect both removing guns and educating (and I mean that holistically) people could be done side by side. Low hanging fruit first. I agree I don't think an instant harsh ban would actually work in the USA.

Alias
Posts: 2331
Joined: November 26th, 2011, 8:10 pm
Favorite Philosopher: Terry Pratchett

Re: Should Guns Be The Centre of The Gun Control Debate?

Post by Alias » April 10th, 2018, 3:10 pm

TigerNinja wrote:
April 9th, 2018, 4:47 pm
Gun crime will still be present but taking away all guns will result in more illegal guns
Where will the illegal guns come from? Right now, many of the armed criminals are using guns that are only illegal to the user. They have been stolen from people who owned them legally, or smuggled in - which is a separate crime - or found by the criminal in the home of the victim, who had it legally.
Leave the legal guns, because the crime will sort itself out over time.
How do think this happens? By what mechanism? Over what period of time?
You could say "But aren't you immorally wasting the lives of people who die from gun crime"
I could ask that. Or I could ask: What about the children who accidentally shoot themselves, one another or their parents with legal guns? What about clumsy or frightened adults who shoot themselves or friends by accident? What about the angry spouses who shoot in the heat of the moment and regret it the rest of their lives? What about the cost to health-care systems of treating all the injuries? What about the jumpy police officers who shoot at the very suspicion of a gun?
to which I ask you if you want me to predict the future of each crime?
You don't need to. The statistics are available to anyone.
Would you kill 2 people if 20 lived in the future? This is a similar situation,
No, it really isn't. Gun control advocates don't recommend the death penalty for gun ownership. All they propose is banning assault rifles, and not classifying weapons of mass destruction as recreational sport equipment. I can readily predict that if that were done, fewer people and other animals would be killed and injured.
A crime is committed. A misused gun is removed.
Only if the perpetrator and his weapon are apprehended. In fact, many weapons are used repeatedly, or sold or passed on to other criminals.
Less guns used illegally when the guns are more difficult to acquire and so forth.
How do they become more difficult to acquire if you don't outlaw them?
In fact, if the government doesn't crack down on import, manufacture, sales and licensing of firearms, they will become ever more common. They're durable , too, so the old ones will still be in circulation as new ones keep coming in.
With time, the gun crimes will progressively die down. I hope.
Hope is an inefficient preventive measure. You might as well pray.
There is no reason at all to believe that crime or violence will automatically decrease in the foreseeable future.
With paranoia rising, plus more strident hate-factions in public life, economic disparity, unemployment and dwindling opportunity, coupled with American-style popular entertainment (not the British television is shy about depicting violence!), that bang-bang problem-solving culture will only spread.

User avatar
LuckyR
Moderator
Posts: 2979
Joined: January 18th, 2015, 1:16 am

Re: Should Guns Be The Centre of The Gun Control Debate?

Post by LuckyR » April 12th, 2018, 2:23 am

None of this is realistic. There is never going to be a ban on guns, nor a confiscation of guns. The vast majority of the guns in the US will remain in private hands. Secondly, since guns essentially last forever, the current total number of guns in the community will not decrease over time. The things that could happen would include more formal licensing, background checks, restrictions on sales for certain categories like those on the terror watch list, certain diagnoses, ages etc. Assault weapons could be banned again but AR15s aren't really assault weapons, they are typical semiauto rifles made to resemble a military weapon. This is great for sales, but changes nothing about the function of the gun. High capacity clips would be a better area to concentrate on.
"As usual... it depends."

Eduk
Posts: 1793
Joined: December 8th, 2016, 7:08 am
Favorite Philosopher: Socrates

Re: Should Guns Be The Centre of The Gun Control Debate?

Post by Eduk » April 12th, 2018, 2:36 am

Never is a long time.

User avatar
LuckyR
Moderator
Posts: 2979
Joined: January 18th, 2015, 1:16 am

Re: Should Guns Be The Centre of The Gun Control Debate?

Post by LuckyR » April 13th, 2018, 12:53 am

Eduk wrote:
April 12th, 2018, 2:36 am
Never is a long time.
We'll see who ends up being correct
"As usual... it depends."

Post Reply