Islamic Terrror By Family of Six

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Spectrum
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Islamic Terrror By Family of Six

Post by Spectrum » May 14th, 2018, 12:07 am

Re the recent terror attacks by a Family of Six in Surabaya, Indonesia;
Surabaya bombings: ISIS family attacks churches, bomb explodes outside police station
Indonesian police chief Tito Karnavian said the family of six, who launched near-simultaneous attacks on three Surabaya churches, were tied to Jamaah Ansharut Daulah, an umbrella organization of Indonesian militant groups proscribed by the US State Department, and Jamaah Ansharut Tauhid.
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/w ... 604f9b8b69
Immediately it is followed by the usual instant response, i.e. has nothing to do with religion
President Joko Widodo, who rushed to the city yesterday, described the attacks as “truly savage and beyond tolerable” and said he had “no words to express the sorrow we feel for the loss of lives”.
“This is a crime against humanity and has nothing to do with religion. We must unite to fight against terrorism.”
The Indonesian President as with the majority of World leaders and authorities are very ignorant and misleading the general public by not getting to the proximate root cause of such terror.

That a family of Six with children could end up doing such terror should give them a clue that the root cause of such acts is most likely to be from the religion itself rather than the usual blaming on the secondary causes, re social, poverty, politics, etc.

Point is as long as the authorities do not direct their attention to the religion of Islam and its inherent evil laden elements, there will always be Islamic based terrors as had been going on since the last 1,400 years.

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Not-a-theist. Religion is a critical necessity for humanity now, but not the FUTURE.

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ThomasHobbes
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Re: Islamic Terrror By Family of Six

Post by ThomasHobbes » May 14th, 2018, 3:47 pm

Take all the activities of ISIS, Taliban, and Boko Haram together the world over and they are statistically insignificant to the road deaths in the UK alone.

What we have here is a media frenzy that is tantamount to conspiring with fundamentalism and the forces that have much to gain by promoting a 'war on terror'. Such media coverage simple gives terrorism what it thrives on.

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Re: Islamic Terrror By Family of Six

Post by ThomasHobbes » May 14th, 2018, 3:49 pm

ADDENDUM:

Should read "Take all the activities of ISIS, Taliban, and Boko Haram together the world over and they are statistically insignificant in comparison to, for example, the road deaths in the UK alone.

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Re: Islamic Terrror By Family of Six

Post by LuckyR » May 14th, 2018, 7:56 pm

Spectrum wrote:
May 14th, 2018, 12:07 am
Re the recent terror attacks by a Family of Six in Surabaya, Indonesia;
Surabaya bombings: ISIS family attacks churches, bomb explodes outside police station
Indonesian police chief Tito Karnavian said the family of six, who launched near-simultaneous attacks on three Surabaya churches, were tied to Jamaah Ansharut Daulah, an umbrella organization of Indonesian militant groups proscribed by the US State Department, and Jamaah Ansharut Tauhid.
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/w ... 604f9b8b69
Immediately it is followed by the usual instant response, i.e. has nothing to do with religion
President Joko Widodo, who rushed to the city yesterday, described the attacks as “truly savage and beyond tolerable” and said he had “no words to express the sorrow we feel for the loss of lives”.
“This is a crime against humanity and has nothing to do with religion. We must unite to fight against terrorism.”
The Indonesian President as with the majority of World leaders and authorities are very ignorant and misleading the general public by not getting to the proximate root cause of such terror.

That a family of Six with children could end up doing such terror should give them a clue that the root cause of such acts is most likely to be from the religion itself rather than the usual blaming on the secondary causes, re social, poverty, politics, etc.

Point is as long as the authorities do not direct their attention to the religion of Islam and its inherent evil laden elements, there will always be Islamic based terrors as had been going on since the last 1,400 years.

Comments?
Wow, good points. Please explain how the direction of "their attention to the religion of Islam " works, exactly.

Of course, I know you are especially watchful against increasing ISIS's recruitment success.
"As usual... it depends."

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Re: Islamic Terrror By Family of Six

Post by Spectrum » May 14th, 2018, 10:58 pm

ThomasHobbes wrote:
May 14th, 2018, 3:47 pm
Take all the activities of ISIS, Taliban, and Boko Haram together the world over and they are statistically insignificant to the road deaths in the UK alone.

What we have here is a media frenzy that is tantamount to conspiring with fundamentalism and the forces that have much to gain by promoting a 'war on terror'. Such media coverage simple gives terrorism what it thrives on.
Are you sure?
You do not understand the significance between the term 'terror' in terrorism and non-terror based deaths.
It appear you are not speaking from known facts.
Note the following statistics;

The road death stats in UK are as follows;
Reported Road Casualties Great Britain
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reported_ ... at_Britain
  • 2016 - 1792
    2015 - 1732
    2014 - 1775

Number of casualties due to terrorism worldwide between 2006 and 2016
https://www.statista.com/statistics/202 ... worldwide/
  • 2016 - 25,621
    2015 - 29,424
    2014 - 32,763
The statistic shows the number of deaths due to terrorism worldwide between 2006 and 2016.
25,621 people were killed by terrorists in 2016.
The number of terrorist attacks worldwide declined between 2006 and 2016. In 2006, about 14,371 terrorist attacks were counted, while in 2016, 11,072 terrorist attacks were counted.
Terrorism is often defined as unlawful violence or systematic use of terror against civilians or politicians for ideological or political reasons, with the intention to create fear. Terrorism is practiced by nationalistic groups, religious groups, revolutionaries and ruling governments.

The fear of terrorism is still instilled in many people's minds. According to Gallup’s survey, which was conducted among adults in the United States in 2013, 34 percent of the participants stated that they were very worried about the possibility of future terrorist attacks. Only 10 percent of the participants said that they were not at all worried.
So don't simply guess and jump to conclusion.

Media frenzy??
In general the activities of the media is always in response to the demand by people, i.e. bad news sell and news on terror sell more.

The Deliberating and Pre-meditating Factors
One critical point you have not considered are the intentional, deliberating and pre-meditating factors in terrorism. This is where the fear factor rises. Note,

How worried are you about the possibility of future terrorist attacks in the U.S.?
https://www.statista.com/statistics/257 ... ed-states/

The cause of the highest number of death at present is 'heart diseases' but people in general are confident it does not happen to them because they have some degree of control over it [life style, medical, etc.] , thus less fear.
As for terrorism, people cannot control it and it can happen anywhere in the world, in a cinema, concert, roadside cafe, sport stadium, etc.

Another point,
Humanity must addressed all premature deaths, e.g. by accidents, diseases, all evil acts, murder, drugs, Islamic TERRORism, etc.

Are you implying we should shut up about Islamic-based terrorism and merely accept it as a fact or life?

Btw, you should reflect on your own psychological status, i.e. you subconsciously feel it 'painful' to read about critiques of Islamic-based terrorism, thus influencing others to 'shut up' because you have been subliminally cowed by their actual acts of terror and threats issued by them.
Not-a-theist. Religion is a critical necessity for humanity now, but not the FUTURE.

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Re: Islamic Terrror By Family of Six

Post by Spectrum » May 14th, 2018, 11:14 pm

LuckyR wrote:
May 14th, 2018, 7:56 pm

Wow, good points. Please explain how the direction of "their attention to the religion of Islam " works, exactly.

Of course, I know you are especially watchful against increasing ISIS's recruitment success.
The right direction is as simple as knowing and understanding the plain truth of the ethos of Islam by reading the Quran -core of Islam thoroughly.
It is undeniable Islam is a useful religion to many but humanity must recognize the core of Islam has very malignant evil laden elements that triggers a natural unavoidable % of evil prone believers to commit evil acts.
So the majority and the authorities must not lie with that 'it has nothing to do with religion.'

Here is one good move, i.e.
Sandra Solomon [an ex-Muslim] and Her Campaign to have the Quran designated [justified factually] as hate literature internationally and be recognized within the United Nation
http://voiceofsandrasolomon.com/
Not-a-theist. Religion is a critical necessity for humanity now, but not the FUTURE.

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Re: Islamic Terrror By Family of Six

Post by LuckyR » May 14th, 2018, 11:41 pm

Spectrum wrote:
May 14th, 2018, 11:14 pm
LuckyR wrote:
May 14th, 2018, 7:56 pm

Wow, good points. Please explain how the direction of "their attention to the religion of Islam " works, exactly.

Of course, I know you are especially watchful against increasing ISIS's recruitment success.
The right direction is as simple as knowing and understanding the plain truth of the ethos of Islam by reading the Quran -core of Islam thoroughly.
It is undeniable Islam is a useful religion to many but humanity must recognize the core of Islam has very malignant evil laden elements that triggers a natural unavoidable % of evil prone believers to commit evil acts.
So the majority and the authorities must not lie with that 'it has nothing to do with religion.'

Here is one good move, i.e.
Sandra Solomon [an ex-Muslim] and Her Campaign to have the Quran designated [justified factually] as hate literature internationally and be recognized within the United Nation
http://voiceofsandrasolomon.com/

Perhaps I gave you too much credit. Uummm... how much video sophistication would it take to spin a UN designation of the Quran as hate literature as a war on Islam by the west? This would be the best recruitment tool ever for ISIS.
"As usual... it depends."

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Re: Islamic Terrror By Family of Six

Post by kordofany » May 15th, 2018, 12:23 am

Even freedom when they become ideologically becomes terrorist.
  The number of innocent civilians killed by the wars fought by America is greater than the number killed by terrorism. Ideology is an underlying terror under the ashes.

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Re: Islamic Terrror By Family of Six

Post by Spectrum » May 15th, 2018, 1:12 am

LuckyR wrote:
May 14th, 2018, 11:41 pm
Perhaps I gave you too much credit. Uummm... how much video sophistication would it take to spin a UN designation of the Quran as hate literature as a war on Islam by the west? This would be the best recruitment tool ever for ISIS.
I have never bothered about credits, praise, etc., but more concern with truths.
As stated, that video is merely a clue and indication and the approach need to be refined.
Whatever, we are only speaking of the truth and nothing else!

Here is one clue based on research findings;
Conclusion: the Sira (Mohammed’s biography) contains a greater percentage of Jew hatred than Mein Kampf.
https://www.politicalislam.com/the-good ... st-denial/
Here is the stats analysis;
http://cspipublishing.com/statistical/T ... _Text.html

There should more work to be done to expose the truth of the Quran, note 'truth' not lies as what the authorities and apologists are ignorant and lying on at present.
Not-a-theist. Religion is a critical necessity for humanity now, but not the FUTURE.

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Re: Islamic Terrror By Family of Six

Post by LuckyR » May 15th, 2018, 2:31 am

Spectrum wrote:
May 15th, 2018, 1:12 am
LuckyR wrote:
May 14th, 2018, 11:41 pm
Perhaps I gave you too much credit. Uummm... how much video sophistication would it take to spin a UN designation of the Quran as hate literature as a war on Islam by the west? This would be the best recruitment tool ever for ISIS.
I have never bothered about credits, praise, etc., but more concern with truths.
As stated, that video is merely a clue and indication and the approach need to be refined.
Whatever, we are only speaking of the truth and nothing else!

Here is one clue based on research findings;
Conclusion: the Sira (Mohammed’s biography) contains a greater percentage of Jew hatred than Mein Kampf.
https://www.politicalislam.com/the-good ... st-denial/
Here is the stats analysis;
http://cspipublishing.com/statistical/T ... _Text.html

There should more work to be done to expose the truth of the Quran, note 'truth' not lies as what the authorities and apologists are ignorant and lying on at present.


The "truth" is less important to the counterterrorism folks than effectiveness. I personally want them to be maximally effective.
"As usual... it depends."

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Re: Islamic Terrror By Family of Six

Post by ThomasHobbes » May 15th, 2018, 5:57 am

Spectrum wrote:
May 14th, 2018, 10:58 pm
ThomasHobbes wrote:
May 14th, 2018, 3:47 pm
Take all the activities of ISIS, Taliban, and Boko Haram together the world over and they are statistically insignificant to the road deaths in the UK alone.

What we have here is a media frenzy that is tantamount to conspiring with fundamentalism and the forces that have much to gain by promoting a 'war on terror'. Such media coverage simple gives terrorism what it thrives on.
Are you sure?
You do not understand the significance between the term 'terror' in terrorism and non-terror based deaths.
It appear you are not speaking from known facts.
Note the following statistics;

The road death stats in UK are as follows;
Reported Road Casualties Great Britain
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reported_ ... at_Britain
  • 2016 - 1792
    2015 - 1732
    2014 - 1775

Number of casualties due to terrorism worldwide between 2006 and 2016
https://www.statista.com/statistics/202 ... worldwide/
  • 2016 - 25,621
    2015 - 29,424
    2014 - 32,763
I said " ISIS, Taliban, and Boko Haram", these are not responsible for "worldwide" terrorism.
What counts as a terrorist casualty?
However I take your point, I'd not realised how much death on the road has dropped in the 21stC.
Also those figures would probably include major conflicts, not just domestic terrorism.

But let's go with the UK. Annual numbers have NEVER exceeded 400 since 1970, and numbers now are at the lowest for that period.
With the exception of 52 deaths in 2005, there have only been a handful of deaths, since the IRA shut up shop.

Although hyperbolic, the figures do not diminish the force of my question. Why all the fuss?

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Re: Islamic Terrror By Family of Six

Post by Spectrum » May 15th, 2018, 6:37 am

LuckyR wrote:
May 15th, 2018, 2:31 am
Spectrum wrote:
May 15th, 2018, 1:12 am
"I" have never bothered about credits, praise, etc., but more concern with truths.
As stated, that video is merely a clue and indication and the approach need to be refined.
Whatever, we are only speaking of the truth and nothing else!

Here is one clue based on research findings;


Here is the stats analysis;
http://cspipublishing.com/statistical/T ... _Text.html

There should more work to be done ["I" have done that] to expose the truth of the Quran, note 'truth' not lies as what the authorities and apologists are ignorant and lying on at present.
The "truth" is less important to the counterterrorism folks than effectiveness. I personally want them to be maximally effective.
The effectiveness based on truth is always more morally sustainable than any effectiveness based on lies.

In the past humanity has been living 'effectively' based necessarily on lies given the various constraints but the trend towards the future is always exposing those lies and leaning toward truth, i.e. living truthfully rather than on lies. note the flat Earth and Geocentric model has now been replaced with truth. Many are still 'lying' to the children re Santa but the trend to the truth is changing.

The greatest lie is 'God exists as real' and the trend towards the truth of non-theism is increasing. This lie of theism is the main cause of the terrible terrorism of this OP and others, i.e. a real God exists who commands believers to kill non-believers.

If we can get the truth to prevail, i.e. there is no real god, Quran containing evil elements is not from a real God, then the Quran will not be a leverage to trigger Islamic based evils and terror.
Not-a-theist. Religion is a critical necessity for humanity now, but not the FUTURE.

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Re: Islamic Terrror By Family of Six

Post by Spectrum » May 15th, 2018, 6:46 am

ThomasHobbes wrote:
May 15th, 2018, 5:57 am
I said " ISIS, Taliban, and Boko Haram", these are not responsible for "worldwide" terrorism.
What counts as a terrorist casualty?
However I take your point, I'd not realised how much death on the road has dropped in the 21stC.
Also those figures would probably include major conflicts, not just domestic terrorism.

But let's go with the UK. Annual numbers have NEVER exceeded 400 since 1970, and numbers now are at the lowest for that period.
With the exception of 52 deaths in 2005, there have only been a handful of deaths, since the IRA shut up shop.

Although hyperbolic, the figures do not diminish the force of my question. Why all the fuss?
Where is your moral compass?
Do you ever wonder why your empathy and compassion is not stimulated at all?
Note Mirror Neurons in human brains.

One planned and premeditated murder is one too many.
Worst this Islamic based murder[s] is based on a lie, i.e. God exists as real.
Anyone who is a concerned citizen of humanity must surely be 'fussing' about such killings driven by lies, more so when the numbers are so large - note the statistics above.

Btw, humanity must be concerned for all types of evil but only religious based evil acts are discussed here as confined by this particular section [religion] of the forum.
Not-a-theist. Religion is a critical necessity for humanity now, but not the FUTURE.

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Re: Islamic Terrror By Family of Six

Post by ThomasHobbes » May 15th, 2018, 8:47 am

Spectrum wrote:
May 15th, 2018, 6:46 am
Do you ever wonder why your empathy and compassion is not stimulated at all?
Note Mirror Neurons in human brains.

One planned and premeditated murder is one too many.
Your comments are absurd and insulting.

I'm making a political point, not an emotional one.
I'm asking why 6 deaths by terrorism are more important than the 700+ deaths by murder in the UK last year. Why deaths on the road do not get any newstime; whilst at the same time the MEDIA are providing terrorism with exactly what they want - undue publicity.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/283 ... uk-y-on-y/

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Re: Islamic Terrror By Family of Six

Post by Karpel Tunnel » May 15th, 2018, 5:00 pm

Spectrum wrote:
May 15th, 2018, 6:46 am
Where is your moral compass?
Do you ever wonder why your empathy and compassion is not stimulated at all?
Note Mirror Neurons in human brains.
MRs are not relevent to statistics and news reports, they function in direct close proximity to the person suffering- or doing whatever. It may make for a fancy way to ad hom someone, but it shows a confusion about what MRs doing or are, really.
One planned and premeditated murder is one too many.
Worst this Islamic based murder[s] is based on a lie, i.e. God exists as real.
Premeditated murders based on true stories are no better. One has to wonder if you have sympathy for those killed by NeoCon policies, often carried out by non-believers. They also manage to lie and then kill.

Let's not focus on the hallcinated wars in Iraq and the number of children's deaths caused by the embargo. Let's ignore what neoliberal policies did in Latin America and the Vietnam war. Let's look at what happened because some rich people figured out ways to make money out of nothing and the financial crisis that caused.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/0 ... ding-to-l/
https://www.bmj.com/content/347/bmj.f5239

Or the death caused by non-theist Communism under Stalin and Mao-

Fine, you may admit these deaths via non-theist idealogies, or perhaps find yourself defending those close to home like neo-con policies. Let's place muslim murder in a contextless space. If this is taken as justifying crimes done in the name of Allah or even, which you seem to miss, in the name of revenge for that the West has done in the Middle East, no. I condemn the lot of them.

But your focus on Islam and religion has been going on long enough without any seeming awareness that non-theist can kill in the millions.
Btw, humanity must be concerned for all types of ad evil but only religious based evil acts are discussed here as confined by this particular section [religion] of the forum.
But the other deaths are relevant, here, in this forum, since discussing the issue without mentioning them makes it seem like religion is the cause, but it seems like humans find ways to create deaths regardless of the position on God.

Maybe we need to look deeper. I dislike Islam as much as anyone who does. However I see something deeper going on and religions used as excuses.

And while I do not think that lies make a murder worse, the secular murderers lie also.

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