Is intuition a legitimate sense?

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Consul
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Re: Is intuition a legitimate sense?

Post by Consul » August 12th, 2018, 12:03 pm

ThomasHobbes wrote:
August 12th, 2018, 10:43 am
Kant's "intution" is not a sense, in the meaning of English such as the five senses.
Kantian Anschauung/intuition is based on sensations, being a perceptual representation of particular objects or events. It's always sinnliche Anschauung/sensory intuition.
"We may philosophize well or ill, but we must philosophize." – Wilfrid Sellars

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Consul
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Re: Is intuition a legitimate sense?

Post by Consul » August 12th, 2018, 12:13 pm

Consul wrote:
August 12th, 2018, 12:03 pm
Kantian Anschauung/intuition is based on sensations, being a perceptual representation of particular objects or events. It's always sinnliche Anschauung/sensory intuition.
He also uses the concept of reine Anschauung/pure intuition, which refers to the non-/pre-sensory intuition of space and time as the "forms of sensibility".
"We may philosophize well or ill, but we must philosophize." – Wilfrid Sellars

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Consul
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Re: Is intuition a legitimate sense?

Post by Consul » August 12th, 2018, 12:18 pm

ThomasHobbes wrote:
August 12th, 2018, 10:44 am
None of which are a sense of a legitimate sense.
I use "intuition" in the philosophical sense of purely rational or intellectual, non-empirical, non-sensory intuition.
"We may philosophize well or ill, but we must philosophize." – Wilfrid Sellars

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ThomasHobbes
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Re: Is intuition a legitimate sense?

Post by ThomasHobbes » August 12th, 2018, 6:13 pm

Consul wrote:
August 12th, 2018, 12:03 pm
ThomasHobbes wrote:
August 12th, 2018, 10:43 am
Kant's "intution" is not a sense, in the meaning of English such as the five senses.
Kantian Anschauung/intuition is based on sensations, being a perceptual representation of particular objects or events. It's always sinnliche Anschauung/sensory intuition.
Senses offer the brain nervous data. Intuition is the processing of that data. That is representation.
QED Kantian intuition is NOT a sense.
This is not rocket science. It only takes a tiny effort to make a distinction.

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Re: Is intuition a legitimate sense?

Post by Thinking critical » August 13th, 2018, 6:22 am

ThomasHobbes wrote:
August 12th, 2018, 10:50 am
Kant's intuition is a thing achieved by a neural process upon sense data. It is not a sense. It is not a perception, more of a reception of that perception.
For example when I see a building with a roof and a door with four windows, I "intuit" a "home" or a house. Without the knowledge I have of building the object would be so much geometry.
I like this summary, it accurately describes the nature of what I stated in an earlier post in that intuition is essentially an accumulation of what our five senses detect. To elaborate, there maybe limited data/information which some or all of our senses detect and it is the "neural processing" which we are referring to as intuition which attempts to predict and complete a picture of what it is that our mind believes it's sensing.
Intuition IMO is the sub conscious mind using a method of logic to infer information to create new knowledge.


So intuition is not a sense in the classical or litteral term, but more so an internal sense in that the specific intuitive function serves as a means to sense potential knowledge from within.
This cocky little cognitive contortionist will straighten you right out

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Re: Is intuition a legitimate sense?

Post by ThomasHobbes » August 13th, 2018, 8:27 am

Thinking critical wrote:
August 13th, 2018, 6:22 am
ThomasHobbes wrote:
August 12th, 2018, 10:50 am
Kant's intuition is a thing achieved by a neural process upon sense data. It is not a sense. It is not a perception, more of a reception of that perception.
For example when I see a building with a roof and a door with four windows, I "intuit" a "home" or a house. Without the knowledge I have of building the object would be so much geometry.
I like this summary, it accurately describes the nature of what I stated in an earlier post in that intuition is essentially an accumulation of what our five senses detect. To elaborate, there maybe limited data/information which some or all of our senses detect and it is the "neural processing" which we are referring to as intuition which attempts to predict and complete a picture of what it is that our mind believes it's sensing.
Intuition IMO is the sub conscious mind using a method of logic to infer information to create new knowledge.


So intuition is not a sense in the classical or litteral term, but more so an internal sense in that the specific intuitive function serves as a means to sense potential knowledge from within.
Except to add that this "accumulation" is more than a passive collection of the information. This is a very important process in psychological terms and gives us an insight into how we are in a continual state of building a narrative about the world. That raw data is "subjected" to the world we have already have.
This can be demonstrated to be dangerously mistaken.
Often it is very useful. We can reconstruct an entire tiger in the bush from moving leaves and a glimpse of fur. But it can also make us reconstruct a ghost from a creek on the stairway, and a cold draft.

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Re: Is intuition a legitimate sense?

Post by Consul » August 13th, 2018, 9:38 am

ThomasHobbes wrote:
August 12th, 2018, 6:13 pm
Consul wrote:
August 12th, 2018, 12:03 pm
Kantian Anschauung/intuition is based on sensations, being a perceptual representation of particular objects or events. It's always sinnliche Anschauung/sensory intuition.
Senses offer the brain nervous data. Intuition is the processing of that data. That is representation.
QED Kantian intuition is NOT a sense.
This is not rocket science. It only takes a tiny effort to make a distinction.
Kant's empiricist concept of intuition ("empirical intuition") is the same as the concept of sensory (sensation-based/-involving) perception (or cognition); but the concept of intuition that is relevant in contemporary philosophy (epistemology) is the rationalist concept of rational or intellectual intuition. Rational/intellectual intuition is different from empirical intuition, because it isn't based on/doesn't involve any sensations.
"We may philosophize well or ill, but we must philosophize." – Wilfrid Sellars

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Re: Is intuition a legitimate sense?

Post by ThomasHobbes » August 13th, 2018, 9:45 am

Consul wrote:
August 13th, 2018, 9:38 am
ThomasHobbes wrote:
August 12th, 2018, 6:13 pm
Senses offer the brain nervous data. Intuition is the processing of that data. That is representation.
QED Kantian intuition is NOT a sense.
This is not rocket science. It only takes a tiny effort to make a distinction.
Kant's empiricist concept of intuition ("empirical intuition") is the same as the concept of sensory (sensation-based/-involving) perception (or cognition); but the concept of intuition that is relevant in contemporary philosophy (epistemology) is the rationalist concept of rational or intellectual intuition. Rational/intellectual intuition is different from empirical intuition, because it isn't based on/doesn't involve any sensations.
Be that as it may, I do not think the distinction is a valid one. There are no intuitions that are not about the world we create. And since what we are pleased to call the "outside world of reality" can only be conceived internally I do not see the value in pretending that there are intuitions which are purely intellectual, since all intellectual "objects" are part of our internal construction of reality, every bit has much as the "House" I can see through my window.

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Re: Is intuition a legitimate sense?

Post by ThomasHobbes » August 13th, 2018, 9:52 am

So in way I conceive of the quadrilinear building across the street. "Seeing" a "HOUSE" is consistent with perception as representation:

"Kant claims that all the representations generated via sensibility are structured by two “forms” of intuition—space and time—and that all sensory aspects of our experience are their “matter” (A20/B34)."
https://www.iep.utm.edu/kandmind/

I do not only see a house, rather than a geometry, this object is consistent and comparable with my subjective world of houseness.
This is unconscious and automatic.

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Consul
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Re: Is intuition a legitimate sense?

Post by Consul » August 13th, 2018, 10:08 am

ThomasHobbes wrote:
August 13th, 2018, 9:45 am
Consul wrote:
August 13th, 2018, 9:38 am
Kant's empiricist concept of intuition ("empirical intuition") is the same as the concept of sensory (sensation-based/-involving) perception (or cognition); but the concept of intuition that is relevant in contemporary philosophy (epistemology) is the rationalist concept of rational or intellectual intuition. Rational/intellectual intuition is different from empirical intuition, because it isn't based on/doesn't involve any sensations.
Be that as it may, I do not think the distinction is a valid one.
It's certainly a relevant and important one, and it was recognized by Kant himself. The entire epistemological debate between the empiricists and the rationalists is centred on it. Kant sides with the empiricists by denying that we have a cognitive/epistemic faculty of non-empirical/non-sensory, purely intellectual intuition (intellektuelle Anschauung).
"We may philosophize well or ill, but we must philosophize." – Wilfrid Sellars

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Consul
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Re: Is intuition a legitimate sense?

Post by Consul » August 13th, 2018, 10:13 am

Rational or intellectual intuition is visio intellectualis ("intellectual vision" [Cusanus]): the "seeing" of truths/facts with the oculus rationis ("eye of reason" [Bonaventure]) rather than with the oculus carnis ("eye of the flesh" = sensory vision).
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Re: Is intuition a legitimate sense?

Post by ThomasHobbes » August 13th, 2018, 10:15 am

Consul wrote:
August 13th, 2018, 10:08 am
ThomasHobbes wrote:
August 13th, 2018, 9:45 am
Be that as it may, I do not think the distinction is a valid one.
It's certainly a relevant and important one, and it was recognized by Kant himself. The entire epistemological debate between the empiricists and the rationalists is centred on it. Kant sides with the empiricists by denying that we have a cognitive/epistemic faculty of non-empirical/non-sensory, purely intellectual intuition (intellektuelle Anschauung).
Modern psychology and neuroscience render this an empty discussion I think.

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Consul
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Re: Is intuition a legitimate sense?

Post by Consul » August 13th, 2018, 11:07 am

ThomasHobbes wrote:
August 13th, 2018, 10:15 am
Consul wrote:
August 13th, 2018, 10:08 am
It's certainly a relevant and important one, and it was recognized by Kant himself. The entire epistemological debate between the empiricists and the rationalists is centred on it. Kant sides with the empiricists by denying that we have a cognitive/epistemic faculty of non-empirical/non-sensory, purely intellectual intuition (intellektuelle Anschauung).
Modern psychology and neuroscience render this an empty discussion I think.
Why do you think that?
"We may philosophize well or ill, but we must philosophize." – Wilfrid Sellars

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Re: Is intuition a legitimate sense?

Post by ThomasHobbes » August 13th, 2018, 2:05 pm

Consul wrote:
August 13th, 2018, 11:07 am
ThomasHobbes wrote:
August 13th, 2018, 10:15 am
Modern psychology and neuroscience render this an empty discussion I think.
Why do you think that?
Because we no longer have to simply argue from experience. We have more scientific and empirical evidence. In Kant's time the brain was a total mystery.

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Consul
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Re: Is intuition a legitimate sense?

Post by Consul » August 13th, 2018, 2:48 pm

ThomasHobbes wrote:
August 13th, 2018, 2:05 pm
Because we no longer have to simply argue from experience. We have more scientific and empirical evidence. In Kant's time the brain was a total mystery.
The good old question as to what epistemic sources of belief-justification and knowledge there are is still with us. Obviously, the central source in empirical science is sensory perception/observation. (In psychology there is also introspection.)
"We may philosophize well or ill, but we must philosophize." – Wilfrid Sellars

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