Brett Kavanaugh

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Fooloso4
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh

Post by Fooloso4 » October 13th, 2018, 2:45 pm

GE Morton:
However "callous," "vulgar," and "insulting" it might be, it is a relevant question and a real possibility.
What evidence do you have that this is a “real” possibility? While it is not impossible, without substantive evidence it is nothing more than a lurid accusation.
That she decided to report it decades later in part because she disagreed with Kavanaugh's ideology is a plausible possibility.
I do not think it plausible that she reported an attempted rape because their political ideologies differed. I see no reason to think that the difference in their political views had anything to do with it. And even if it did, what difference does it make? You say you have no reason to think her accusation was political and yet you suggest that there is a real possibility they were. You fault others for making it politic and yet you suggest that it was.

GE Morton
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh

Post by GE Morton » October 13th, 2018, 3:07 pm

Fooloso4 wrote:
October 13th, 2018, 2:45 pm

What evidence do you have that this is a “real” possibility? While it is not impossible, without substantive evidence it is nothing more than a lurid accusation.
Oh, please. It is not an acusation at all. It is a possibility. The only "evidence" you need for possibilities is the absence of foreclosing factors.
I do not think it plausible that she reported an attempted rape because their political ideologies differed. I see no reason to think that the difference in their political views had anything to do with it.
A difference in political views is itself a reason. What role it played, if any, is unknown. But it is possible.

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Greta
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh

Post by Greta » October 13th, 2018, 4:36 pm

Fooloso4 wrote:
October 13th, 2018, 8:35 am
Greta, one advantage of the Atlantic article by Benjamin Wittes is that it cannot simply be dismissed, as so much is, as partisan.
But my bottom line is the opposite of the one Flake expressed in his statement: Faced with credible allegations of serious misconduct against him, Kavanaugh behaved in a fashion unacceptable in a justice, it seems preponderantly likely he was not candid with the Senate Judiciary Committee on important matters, and the risk of Ford’s allegations being closer to the truth than his denial of them is simply too high to place him on the Supreme Court.
Yes, it's reminiscent of the Clinton case where the original transgression was less serious than the untrustworthy testimony. Ideally you don't want people who are prepared to give dodgy testimonies to be judging others' testimonies in the highest court of a land. Ideally.

Today, given that Trump is apparently AOK with many despite an assessed 3% level of truthfulness during campaigning, in a time when real news is declared "fake" and fake news is declared "fair and unbiased", the Orwellian feel of it all suggest that the times suit liars like the POTUS and Kavanagh.

I am reminded of Dawkins's accounts of multiple iterations of Prisoners' Dilemma, how in a society where most individuals are "nice", more likely to cooperate than defect in transactions, then cooperative individuals thrive (in politics, read cooperation and defection as truthfulness and lying). On the other hand, if the non cooperative are predominant, then cooperative types are exploited and won't thrive.

The latter dynamic seems to be in play at present.

Fooloso4
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh

Post by Fooloso4 » October 13th, 2018, 5:34 pm

GE Morton:
Oh, please. It is not an acusation at all. It is a possibility. The only "evidence" you need for possibilities is the absence of foreclosing factors.
Raising the possibility is more insidious than an outright accusation. It is possible that he is a serial rapist but can’t remember because he is frequently blackout drunk. It is possible that he struck a deal with Trump ahead of time knowing Ford might come forward, Trump getting the Republicans to push through the nomination and curtailing a full investigation in exchange for the promise of protecting Trump from prosecution. There is ample evidence of the absence of foreclosing factors. Its possible.
A difference in political views is itself a reason. What role it played, if any, is unknown. But it is possible.
You cannot say what role it played but you put it forth as a possibility. Why? What is the relevance? What difference does it make? It does not change the facts of the matter. It only serves to cast doubt on her testimony by suggesting she was politically motivated. It is also possible, and I think most who are not partisan would agree, that she was motivated by the fact that someone who attempted to rape her might be appointed to the Supreme Court.

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