Legalizing Prostitution

[Alun]

[whitetrshsoldier]

Alun,

I think we're seeing eye to eye on this one

See, compromise is possible from any side of the aisle, folks!
_________________
"I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings! I'm obviously just insecure with the ineptitudes of my logic and rational faculties. Forgive me - I'm a "lost soul", blinded by my "ignorant belief" that there's such a thing as reality and truth in the world"

[Juice]

Come on now guys let's at least try to be a little objectively intellectual here! I'm sure we can agree that being a prostitute is far removed from being a telemarketer. I wanted my daughter to be president instead I got a smartass who seemingly plans on making school a career. I think what some may be avoiding is answering the question of whether they would encourage or support their wives, daughters and maybe even their mothers deciding to undertake a career in prostitution or maybe even doing so "just to get by".

Let's also not pretend that there is no morality or expected morality in society.

In a just and free society there must be a recognition of some semblance of order and morality. Just ask the question of how far one is willing to go in order to allow for unrestrained individual freedom. Wouldn't prostitutes be then allowed to set up shop right next to you, at your house, your place of work, across the street of a school? Please don't tell me that you would confine them to dark alleys, warehouse districts and DC? Wouldn't doing so be in violation or their rights?

What about my right to seeing to it that the individual has the best opportunities to live a life with dignity.

And yes Alun I would want my children punished for making the wrong choices (criminal).

Pretending that there is some disproportionate level of value expectations can not negate the fact that the majority of people see morality very similarly. It may sound good as a philosophical exercise to mentally construct a world were everyone is free to act as they please without consequence or hurting others but the truth is that this society, man, is self governed by an idea of morality. No not my morality but a general concept of right and wrong.

Let me ask you were does one go to when they want to become sex objects? Can they go to WTS or Alun. Will you be the one to encourage entry into that world? I see that you guys glossed over the reference to the world sex slave industry. Do you know how much a blond haired blue eyed girl is worth in Saudi or Hong Kong? While it may be a persons choice to place themselves in bondage what does it say about society or the person who allows and supports it?
_________________
When everyone looks to better their own future then the future will be better for everyone.

An explanation of cause is not a justification by reason.
C. S. Lewis

Fight the illusion!

[Nick_A]

Scott

[Homicidal Pacifist]

"Selling is legal.
F*cking is legal.
...
Why isn't selling f*cking legal?"

- (The Late) George Carlin




Freedom, freedom, freedom.

If you want to live self-destructively as an alcoholic, for example, I will recommend other lifestyles but I will not imprison you unless you actually violate someone else's rights or freedoms.

Regardless of consequences like the spreading of disease (which many people obviously are willing to risk by sleeping with whores and your daughter - don't get pissed, I said that only because something like 1 out of 4 highschool students has herpes), etc., LET FREEDOM REIGN.

I believe it is prejudice, disrepectful, and a waste of time and money to persecute people for engaging in prostitution. But I don't think it's the best way to live. But I could be wrong or it could be relative.

Just because I don't agree with or respect the action itself does not mean that I should or have the right to illegalize that action which ought to be an inherent part of civil and human rights.

The only reason that prostitution is illegal is because there is a struggle between the "morality" of the country and the ability to tax prostitution. The government realizes that they can't tax many of the transactions (and that Christian America will come down on them if they do) and so prostitution will always be under-the-table. You don't pay income tax when you're a whore and if it legal and more widespread, the government would not make as much money through income taxes because less people would be working and more people would be whoring.

Stop calling this a free country.
_________________
"If Ignorance Is Bliss, Then Knock The Smile Off My Face!"

- Rage Against The Machine

[whitetrshsoldier]

[pjkeeley]

[Homicidal Pacifist]

whitetrshsoldier said, "Of course we all know that every man "pays" for sex in one way or another, so may I ask what the difference is if a women skips driving me to a restuarant and buying my meal and instead just gives me the money up front so I can dine in peace? I'm not sure why you don't understand this, but as Thomas Jefferson once said, "It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg" if this occurs. This is the definition of a 'permissible' act in a free society.
... What if I said I disapproved of religion and god [I do] and found both detrimental to society? Would you consider that a "volatile energy"? And so, wouldn't you wish it illegal in your 'free' society? Do you now desire to 'minimize my negative appeal' and push me and my free thought and expression underground?"

----

That was awesome. That bit about paying for sex by dating was hilarious.

Though I feel I've seen you in action before regarding the issue of doing some bad (freedom destroying) acts for the sake of the general welfare (in your support of war for freedom which, through collateral damage, actually crushes some freedoms while expanding other freedoms). Maybe it applies in some areas and not others.

Anyway, don't bow to the selfish masses if they demand that you sacrifice your rights. Aid them as much as possible without allowing or supporting blatant injustices.
_________________
"If Ignorance Is Bliss, Then Knock The Smile Off My Face!"

- Rage Against The Machine

[Juice]

You are right PJ, consider my point an attempt to put some "emotion" into the question. The question is one of social acceptance. Once prostitution becomes legal then it sends the message that it has become socially acceptable, and therefore negates the necessity for familiar discourse. Granted we can then argue what is socially acceptable but adultery is not socially acceptable and does have consequences unless people create a mutually exclusive contract whether verbal or religious, spiritual or otherwise. So choice exists in any relationship depending on the needs of parties.

But, let's try not to fool ourselves that prostitution is some sort of intellectually fulfilling lifestyle or that it satisfies some overarching feminist liberation, or rebellious anarchism against religious doctrine or societal restrictions.

The activity is exploitive and foments other criminal enterprises such as pedophilia and drug trafficking. Ninety percent of prostitutes are drug addicts.

As I stated; as men we need to be the protectors of woman and children this includes protections against some peoples inclination to place themselves in situations which may cause them harm. While we can consider sex to be benign prostitution lends itself to increasingly self deprecating and harmful activities. Considering the alternatives, legalization, in order to be protective and effective, will be so regulated as to make the effort unworthy.
_________________
When everyone looks to better their own future then the future will be better for everyone.

An explanation of cause is not a justification by reason.
C. S. Lewis

Fight the illusion!

[Scott]

Nick_A, I'm not celebrating prostitution. I am not proposing we celebrate prostitution. I think you are incorrect when you conflate legalization with celebration. For instance, I would definitely support replacing the expensive, ineffective war on prostitution with a less expensive public health campaign similar to what is done with cigarettes and alcohol.

[Juice]

Let's make it clear that it is the "activity" of prostitution itself that promotes destructive and criminal activity regardless of its legality. Prostitution is a self perpetuating social inequity. Make no mistake that while some may want to maintain the fantasy of the "happy hooker" to legitimize the false premise that prostitution is somehow a viable social enterprise with "growth" marketability that will somehow improve the character of society in some way, it is exactly this mindset that sets itself towards the destructive intents of progressivism.

Prostitution may be an uncontrollable aspect of society and tauted as the "worlds oldest profession" but so is slavery. It would seem that the two go hand in hand. We can see the underpinnings of the progressive mindset and its rationalizations and its means to an end by neo-feminism manipulations disguised as freedom. When will people wake up and realize that they are being played by fools?
_________________
When everyone looks to better their own future then the future will be better for everyone.

An explanation of cause is not a justification by reason.
C. S. Lewis

Fight the illusion!

[whitetrshsoldier]

[Scott]

[Juice]

Come on WTS, I can see the need to defend Libertarian ideologies but to call me a "Progressive" You've got to admit that advocating for the legalization of prostitution or drugs is clearly a Progressive undertaking rather than a Conservative perspective.

Once again we seem to be deliberately overlooking many of the key points expressed. But, first let's try to make sense of the proposition, particularly in light of the fact that it seems that only "men" are taking part in this discussion and considering that woman made much better bras once it was noted that the "man" made designs tended to fulfill the confused fantasies of men.

I also consider it intellectually dishonest to make the type of comparisons made particularly since the argument can be made that anything can be abused whether it is alcohol, drugs, sex, children, spouses, the elderly, work or leisure. The argument lends weight to my contention that despite any legalization further criminalization will be a byproduct of the activity subject to any manner of abuse, including slavery. People don't enter into criminal activity or attach themselves to legal activities in a criminal manner because they are want to do so for honest gain. It's just an easy way around making money.

As far as alcohol is concerned I know many people who make their own liqueur, wine and beer. I don't think there is a community in Canada that doesn't have their own private beer label. Same goes for France and wine.

What I find remarkable about this discussion is the level of pluralism and cultural relativism displayed. If one would ask the question of what better serves society and to what level of magnanimity should man aim then to what end does promoting sexual ineptness allow? What is supposed to be easy?

While I feel sympathy for the sexually inept or repressed individual I will continue my practice of looking at those individuals unable to use intelligence and physical superiority to achieve sexual aims as pathetically socially and biologically inferior. Sure we can legalize prostitution as long as I can make fun of those who need that service.
_________________
When everyone looks to better their own future then the future will be better for everyone.

An explanation of cause is not a justification by reason.
C. S. Lewis

Fight the illusion!

[JPhillips]

Isn't this a moral issue in which we have decided something is wrong and should be illegal based entirely on our personal beliefs?

Legal prostitution in Germany has been correlated with fewer sex crimes and STD's. Maybe you can argue that there are other, as yet unknown reasons for these things, but you can't argue that it leads to an increase in sex crimes and STD's.

I don't condone the business of prostitution on moral grounds. Then again, I can probably list a lot of things that I can object to on moral grounds which are entirely legal. Such as a CEO making millions while an employee at the bottom of the organizational ladder is working for minimum wages and receiving government assistance which are paid for by tax dollars. You may ask how I can compare this to prostitution. I say to me greed is just as immoral as lust. That is how I can compare the two.

I also have to acknowledge that making prostitution legal would give both the prostitutes and their clients some protection against, STD's, violence in the trade, and the sex slave industry. It may even, to a small degree, reduce the number of rapes committed in this country.

I don't see the legalization of prostitution as a good thing. I would view it as an attempt to make it less bad or at least to have some say as to how the business is conducted.