What is the root cause of misogyny?

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mystery
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Re: What is the root cause of misogyny?

Post by mystery »

AmericanKestrel wrote: June 15th, 2021, 9:12 pm
mystery wrote: June 15th, 2021, 8:11 pm
AmericanKestrel wrote: June 15th, 2021, 5:58 pm
mystery wrote: June 14th, 2021, 11:54 pm
no, I do not agree, the rejection is in the path. If we remove the reject the path will flow differently. Again.. the rejection is the proper action. Do we agree that rejection is the proper action if the woman does not want the man?
What exactly do you mean if remove the rejection? Rejection is not a thing, it is denying access to the body. The only way removal of rejection can happen is if the man forces himself, which is rape. Yes, we agree women should not be raped.
Rejection is a thing.

A woman should for sure reject what she does not want. I think we are in agreement on this, if not pls tell.

The man can learn to deal with the rejection in a more useful way, also the man can learn how to behave so rejection does not occur or occur as often.

The woman does not need imo to change for this issue. This is a man's issue to solve about themselves. We completely agree that going to hate in response to rejection is bad. We disagree on how the man should deal with it in his mind. What I assume a woman would want is for it to stop, period. I would expect a woman might consider any path that she does not need to contribute to that would lead to a solution as a useful thing. Some men on the other hand will not like it because it places blame on men, directly on men and does not allow for an excuse such as mental illness or other excuses that are based on lack of motivation.
If rejection is a cause, are there any crimes or hateful acts that cannot be argued result of rejection? Breaking into a car and stealing it, because the door lock rejected? Muugging an old lady and stealing her money, because she rejected his request for money? Can we list the number crimes caused by rejection?
Breaking into a house and robing.
Beating up your employees because the rejected low wages?
Beating up the customer because …
To expand a little more on this. For the case of the old ladies that the guy wants money from what he should do is for example learn how to paint houses. Then sell house painting for a discount to old ladies. While he is doing that he should also learn about cats because most old ladies like cats. While he is painting a house for money he can play with the cat. The old lady will be impressed and recommend him to all of her old lady friends. Now the man has many old ladies that want to give him money. simple, but requires improvement and self-control.

This formula can be applied to many situations.

In my solution, he is still getting money from the old ladies and everyone is happy about it.
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Re: What is the root cause of misogyny?

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mystery wrote: June 17th, 2021, 1:32 am If a woman does not reject a man, he does not develop hate for the woman or women in general.

- I think we agree on that. (some other cases maybe yes due to any number of odd situations)
I don't think rejection is the only trigger that can provoke a misogynistic response from a misogynist. It can be a trigger, but I don't think it's the only one, so no, I don't agree with this.

You assert here that rejection causes a man who was not a misogynist to become one. What is the evidence for this, please?


mystery wrote: June 17th, 2021, 1:32 am What you tell us that the woman rejecting the man has no impact on his feelings or emotions.
No! I have never said, or thought, such a thing. But the misogynist differs from most men, in that his feeling or emotions are impacted much more. It is the misogynist's aberrant response that is the key here, not the trigger (which might be rejection, or it might be something else).

All the time, you redirect the focus away from the misogynist, who is the problem, toward the victim, who is not the problem. Yes, you say that the issue is a man's issue, but you come back, again and again, to the victim. The victim's role in misogyny is just that: victim, nothing more.

Rejection - and acceptance, its complement - is a social fact of life, and most people deal with it just fine. The root cause of misogyny, as the topic asks, is in the mind of the misogynist. That much I am happy to assert. Exactly what it is in the misogynist's mind that causes the problem, I don't know. But how can the problem, or the cause, lie anywhere else than in the misogynist's mind?
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Re: What is the root cause of misogyny?

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Sy Borg wrote: June 17th, 2021, 2:09 am
LuckyR wrote: June 17th, 2021, 1:11 am
Sy Borg wrote: June 16th, 2021, 11:48 pm Isn't it just a matter of probabilities? Some people will especially love the opposite sex, and others will have a special aversion.

Also, some people are more inclined to love generally and others are more inclined to hatred. I find that hatred of women is often accompanied by homophobia, racism, and a general intolerance of "the other".

Sometimes the hatred is passed on by family, sometimes it's the result of negative experiences but, whatever the cause, all hatred is ultimately driven by fear. Fear of the unknown, of the other, of oneself. Again, that's the law of averages at play - some will experience far less fear than usual and others will be highly fearful.
You're half right. Statistically there will be a normal distribution of attitudes from love to hate of every possible category of group. However, misogyny does not follow a normal distribution. Misogyny is more heavily weighted to the male gender than would be expected by the proportion of heterosexual males in the population. Therefore the root cause has more to do with the male gender than the impact of women on relationships, such as rejection (because if the root cause was the impact of women on relationships, then those impacts would be evenly distributed among all of the types of relationships that women participate in, not just the ones with men).
Sure, madly horny young male primates may react with anger if sufficiently sexually thwarted. The itch that cannot be scratched.
True, but the dissimilar stats from madly horny young female primates when sexually thwarted, proves my point.
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Re: What is the root cause of misogyny?

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Sy Borg wrote: June 16th, 2021, 11:48 pm Isn't it just a matter of probabilities? Some people will especially love the opposite sex, and others will have a special aversion.

Also, some people are more inclined to love generally and others are more inclined to hatred. I find that hatred of women is often accompanied by homophobia, racism, and a general intolerance of "the other".

Sometimes the hatred is passed on by family, sometimes it's the result of negative experiences but, whatever the cause, all hatred is ultimately driven by fear. Fear of the unknown, of the other, of oneself. Again, that's the law of averages at play - some will experience far less fear than usual and others will be highly fearful.
I believe misogyny is driven by fear of women. What the fear is exactly can be many things including the story of Eve tempting Adam. Fear of his urges and need for control. Fear of rejection is the last thing I would think of.
As for racism, it could be fear of losing ground, giving up power and control over another that worked very well so far.
"The Serpent did not lie."
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Re: What is the root cause of misogyny?

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LuckyR wrote: June 17th, 2021, 1:24 pm
Sy Borg wrote: June 17th, 2021, 2:09 am
LuckyR wrote: June 17th, 2021, 1:11 am
Sy Borg wrote: June 16th, 2021, 11:48 pm Isn't it just a matter of probabilities? Some people will especially love the opposite sex, and others will have a special aversion.

Also, some people are more inclined to love generally and others are more inclined to hatred. I find that hatred of women is often accompanied by homophobia, racism, and a general intolerance of "the other".

Sometimes the hatred is passed on by family, sometimes it's the result of negative experiences but, whatever the cause, all hatred is ultimately driven by fear. Fear of the unknown, of the other, of oneself. Again, that's the law of averages at play - some will experience far less fear than usual and others will be highly fearful.
You're half right. Statistically there will be a normal distribution of attitudes from love to hate of every possible category of group. However, misogyny does not follow a normal distribution. Misogyny is more heavily weighted to the male gender than would be expected by the proportion of heterosexual males in the population. Therefore the root cause has more to do with the male gender than the impact of women on relationships, such as rejection (because if the root cause was the impact of women on relationships, then those impacts would be evenly distributed among all of the types of relationships that women participate in, not just the ones with men).
Sure, madly horny young male primates may react with anger if sufficiently sexually thwarted. The itch that cannot be scratched.
True, but the dissimilar stats from madly horny young female primates when sexually thwarted, proves my point.
The "Karen" phenomenon suggests otherwise.
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Re: What is the root cause of misogyny?

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Sy Borg wrote: June 17th, 2021, 9:26 pm
LuckyR wrote: June 17th, 2021, 1:24 pm
Sy Borg wrote: June 17th, 2021, 2:09 am
LuckyR wrote: June 17th, 2021, 1:11 am

You're half right. Statistically there will be a normal distribution of attitudes from love to hate of every possible category of group. However, misogyny does not follow a normal distribution. Misogyny is more heavily weighted to the male gender than would be expected by the proportion of heterosexual males in the population. Therefore the root cause has more to do with the male gender than the impact of women on relationships, such as rejection (because if the root cause was the impact of women on relationships, then those impacts would be evenly distributed among all of the types of relationships that women participate in, not just the ones with men).
Sure, madly horny young male primates may react with anger if sufficiently sexually thwarted. The itch that cannot be scratched.
True, but the dissimilar stats from madly horny young female primates when sexually thwarted, proves my point.
The "Karen" phenomenon suggests otherwise.
I am unfamiliar with the lesbian Karen misogynistic phenomenon.
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Re: What is the root cause of misogyny?

Post by mystery »

Pattern-chaser wrote: June 17th, 2021, 8:49 am
mystery wrote: June 17th, 2021, 1:32 am If a woman does not reject a man, he does not develop hate for the woman or women in general.

- I think we agree on that. (some other cases maybe yes due to any number of odd situations)
I don't think rejection is the only trigger that can provoke a misogynistic response from a misogynist. It can be a trigger, but I don't think it's the only one, so no, I don't agree with this.

You assert here that rejection causes a man who was not a misogynist to become one. What is the evidence for this, please?


mystery wrote: June 17th, 2021, 1:32 am What you tell us that the woman rejecting the man has no impact on his feelings or emotions.
No! I have never said, or thought, such a thing. But the misogynist differs from most men, in that his feeling or emotions are impacted much more. It is the misogynist's aberrant response that is the key here, not the trigger (which might be rejection, or it might be something else).

All the time, you redirect the focus away from the misogynist, who is the problem, toward the victim, who is not the problem. Yes, you say that the issue is a man's issue, but you come back, again and again, to the victim. The victim's role in misogyny is just that: victim, nothing more.

Rejection - and acceptance, its complement - is a social fact of life, and most people deal with it just fine. The root cause of misogyny, as the topic asks, is in the mind of the misogynist. That much I am happy to assert. Exactly what it is in the misogynist's mind that causes the problem, I don't know. But how can the problem, or the cause, lie anywhere else than in the misogynist's mind?
I do keep saying over and over that it is a men's issue to deal with and no fault of the woman.

Do we agree on this?
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Re: What is the root cause of misogyny?

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LuckyR wrote: June 18th, 2021, 1:42 am
Sy Borg wrote: June 17th, 2021, 9:26 pm
LuckyR wrote: June 17th, 2021, 1:24 pm
Sy Borg wrote: June 17th, 2021, 2:09 am
Sure, madly horny young male primates may react with anger if sufficiently sexually thwarted. The itch that cannot be scratched.
True, but the dissimilar stats from madly horny young female primates when sexually thwarted, proves my point.
The "Karen" phenomenon suggests otherwise.
I am unfamiliar with the lesbian Karen misogynistic phenomenon.
"Karens" are a fairly well-worn online synecdoche, representing "woman angry at the world (and very often, men)".
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Re: What is the root cause of misogyny?

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Pattern-chaser wrote: June 17th, 2021, 8:49 am ...
mystery wrote: June 18th, 2021, 2:46 am I do keep saying over and over that it is a men's issue to deal with and no fault of the woman.
Yes, you do, "over and over". But you don't answer the questions that are put to you concerning the apparent shortfalls of your opinions; you just repeat them.
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Re: What is the root cause of misogyny?

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Sy Borg wrote: June 16th, 2021, 11:48 pm Also, some people are more inclined to love generally and others are more inclined to hatred. I find that hatred of women is often accompanied by homophobia, racism, and a general intolerance of "the other".
Yes, it is certainly the case that one sort of hatred is often accompanied by others. I suppose, once you learn (?) to hate, it's easier to hate other things too?
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Re: What is the root cause of misogyny?

Post by AmericanKestrel »

Sy Borg wrote: June 18th, 2021, 5:25 am
LuckyR wrote: June 18th, 2021, 1:42 am
Sy Borg wrote: June 17th, 2021, 9:26 pm
LuckyR wrote: June 17th, 2021, 1:24 pm

True, but the dissimilar stats from madly horny young female primates when sexually thwarted, proves my point.
The "Karen" phenomenon suggests otherwise.
I am unfamiliar with the lesbian Karen misogynistic phenomenon.
"Karens" are a fairly well-worn online synecdoche, representing "woman angry at the world (and very often, men)".
No that is not trues, it is a synecdoche for racist white privilege which can be vented at anyone who do not look like them. Karens can be male as well. It is not about misogyny, it is racist.
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Re: What is the root cause of misogyny?

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Sy Borg wrote: June 18th, 2021, 5:25 am "Karens" are a fairly well-worn online synecdoche, representing "woman angry at the world (and very often, men)".
This is a term I usually associate with the bullies who use straw men (!) to portray women as those at fault, and not their victims.

"Oh, ignore them, they're just angry. You know how women get; probably hormonal, y'know. 😂"
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Re: What is the root cause of misogyny?

Post by Sy Borg »

Pattern-chaser wrote: June 18th, 2021, 11:43 am
Sy Borg wrote: June 18th, 2021, 5:25 am "Karens" are a fairly well-worn online synecdoche, representing "woman angry at the world (and very often, men)".
This is a term I usually associate with the bullies who use straw men (!) to portray women as those at fault, and not their victims.

"Oh, ignore them, they're just angry. You know how women get; probably hormonal, y'know. 😂"
You know how some men go over the top and make absurd claims online with absolute self-righteousness and no consideration of history? Well, some women do that too. The sexist part is that they are labelled as such. People have tossed around "Ken" as an equivalent male serial complainer but it's been less catchy.

Nor does any of this detract from the fact that, yes, men and women do a lot of similar things, including spewing jaundice online based on their personal hangups.
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Re: What is the root cause of misogyny?

Post by LuckyR »

Sy Borg wrote: June 18th, 2021, 5:25 am
LuckyR wrote: June 18th, 2021, 1:42 am
Sy Borg wrote: June 17th, 2021, 9:26 pm
LuckyR wrote: June 17th, 2021, 1:24 pm

True, but the dissimilar stats from madly horny young female primates when sexually thwarted, proves my point.
The "Karen" phenomenon suggests otherwise.
I am unfamiliar with the lesbian Karen misogynistic phenomenon.
"Karens" are a fairly well-worn online synecdoche, representing "woman angry at the world (and very often, men)".
Sorry, everyone (even I) knows about Karens being mad at men. My point was lesbian Karens aren't mad at women, they're still mad at men.
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Re: What is the root cause of misogyny?

Post by Sy Borg »

LuckyR wrote: June 18th, 2021, 6:50 pm
Sy Borg wrote: June 18th, 2021, 5:25 am
LuckyR wrote: June 18th, 2021, 1:42 am
Sy Borg wrote: June 17th, 2021, 9:26 pm
The "Karen" phenomenon suggests otherwise.
I am unfamiliar with the lesbian Karen misogynistic phenomenon.
"Karens" are a fairly well-worn online synecdoche, representing "woman angry at the world (and very often, men)".
Sorry, everyone (even I) knows about Karens being mad at men. My point was lesbian Karens aren't mad at women, they're still mad at men.
Oh, I'd assumed that the lesbian reference was akin to "disabled black lesbian whales", so to speak.
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