Deterioration of the human mind

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Skyblack
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Deterioration of the human mind

Post by Skyblack »

When one looks at the human condition one finds the human surrounded by problems. In order to cope with these problems the human looks at various solutions promised by ideologies, religions, politics, economics, science, and so forth. While few of man’s problems are practical but most of them are psychological. An example to better understand the distinction: If one does not have the basic needs of food, shelter, and clothes, this a practical problem. However, If one is psychologically insecure because they aren’t “comparable” or “better” than the Jones, then this a psychological problem.

In his constant effort to fix his problems by looking into the solutions proposed by the various brokers (Secular or Religious), it is clear the human has descended into a pattern of conformity, thus making the mind and the heart dull, insensitive, sluggish, blind, unresponsive, almost lifeless. A second hand machine at best, that constantly breaks down.

It seems the human is not capable of looking at anything with fresh eyes or to adequately respond to the challenges life throws at him/her. Every new moment is met with the weight of the past and through the acquired filters. Thus all responses are partial and fragmentary.

How can such a burdened human ever be free to meet a new unknown moment. How will such a weighed consciousness penetrate the tenuous workings of their own mind, and that of the universe.
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LuckyR
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Re: Deterioration of the human mind

Post by LuckyR »

Skyblack wrote: June 17th, 2021, 3:48 pm When one looks at the human condition one finds the human surrounded by problems. In order to cope with these problems the human looks at various solutions promised by ideologies, religions, politics, economics, science, and so forth. While few of man’s problems are practical but most of them are psychological. An example to better understand the distinction: If one does not have the basic needs of food, shelter, and clothes, this a practical problem. However, If one is psychologically insecure because they aren’t “comparable” or “better” than the Jones, then this a psychological problem.

In his constant effort to fix his problems by looking into the solutions proposed by the various brokers (Secular or Religious), it is clear the human has descended into a pattern of conformity, thus making the mind and the heart dull, insensitive, sluggish, blind, unresponsive, almost lifeless. A second hand machine at best, that constantly breaks down.

It seems the human is not capable of looking at anything with fresh eyes or to adequately respond to the challenges life throws at him/her. Every new moment is met with the weight of the past and through the acquired filters. Thus all responses are partial and fragmentary.

How can such a burdened human ever be free to meet a new unknown moment. How will such a weighed consciousness penetrate the tenuous workings of their own mind, and that of the universe.
Are these conclusions based on your personal human experience? Or perhaps books you've read? Where did this stuff come from?
"As usual... it depends."
Skyblack
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Re: Deterioration of the human mind

Post by Skyblack »

Surely these are factual observations on how we function, and available to all. But whether the observer has worked on clearing observation from the defects listed in op, so as to get an accurate perception, is of course a separate matter.
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chewybrian
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Re: Deterioration of the human mind

Post by chewybrian »

Skyblack wrote: June 17th, 2021, 3:48 pm When one looks at the human condition one finds the human surrounded by problems. In order to cope with these problems the human looks at various solutions promised by ideologies, religions, politics, economics, science, and so forth...While few of man’s problems are practical but most of them are psychological.
I think most of us would agree that we have problems, and that a lot of them are in effect self-inflicted wounds. We do turn to crappy solutions to cope, and some of these 'solutions' might seem to be our only serious problems if we were able to look at ourselves objectively. However, I don't know that you did (or even could) make the case that we are deteriorating, or getting worse, that we are perhaps turning away from reality and toward the crappy coping methods any more than people did in the past.

The only noticeable difference seems to be that we have greater raw knowledge. We have more to turn away from, and perhaps more ways to turn from it. But, this process has been going on for as long as we are able to look back. People seem to prefer easy answers to real but difficult solutions, and both seem to have been with us all along. They had beer and preachers; we have xanax and Dr. Phil. Maybe they didn't understand psychology on the same terms centuries ago. Yet, something like stoic philosophy differs little in content and effect from cognitive behavioral therapy, which is rooted in stoic philosophy. So, arguably, real answers have been within our reach all along as well.

Civilization was founded on beer, which is the real reason we became farmers. Before we farmed we abused poppies. We have religion and politics going back about as far as recorded history. So, it's not a question of whether or not we've always had these issues or these ineffective ways of trying to cope. The only point I question is your claim that we are deteriorating. Do you have any basis for this claim?

I'm not claiming that we are getting better, btw, just saying that there seems to be little basis for claiming that we are getting worse.
"If determinism holds, then past events have conspired to cause me to hold this view--it is out of my control. Either I am right about free will, or it is not my fault that I am wrong."
Nick_A
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Re: Deterioration of the human mind

Post by Nick_A »

Skyblack wrote: June 17th, 2021, 3:48 pm When one looks at the human condition one finds the human surrounded by problems. In order to cope with these problems the human looks at various solutions promised by ideologies, religions, politics, economics, science, and so forth. While few of man’s problems are practical but most of them are psychological. An example to better understand the distinction: If one does not have the basic needs of food, shelter, and clothes, this a practical problem. However, If one is psychologically insecure because they aren’t “comparable” or “better” than the Jones, then this a psychological problem.

In his constant effort to fix his problems by looking into the solutions proposed by the various brokers (Secular or Religious), it is clear the human has descended into a pattern of conformity, thus making the mind and the heart dull, insensitive, sluggish, blind, unresponsive, almost lifeless. A second hand machine at best, that constantly breaks down.

It seems the human is not capable of looking at anything with fresh eyes or to adequately respond to the challenges life throws at him/her. Every new moment is met with the weight of the past and through the acquired filters. Thus all responses are partial and fragmentary.

How can such a burdened human ever be free to meet a new unknown moment. How will such a weighed consciousness penetrate the tenuous workings of their own mind, and that of the universe.
You aren't the only one to sense this. It does seem that the more our species knows, the less we understand.

Individuality, or what made America great, is no longer valued. Instead people value the collective government has placed one in.
Never has the individual been so completely delivered up to a blind collectivity, and never have men been so less capable, not only of subordinating their actions to their thoughts, but even of thinking." ~ Simone Weil
Consider all these college kids demanding rights with no individual awareness of the voluntary obligations necessary to sustain them.

The collective is easier to become a part of since a person doesn't have to think. Thinking is done by the leaders of collectives. Individuality has been canceled in favor of correct thinking defined by a collective. Will any individuals capable of an open mind remain in the world to awaken it to what it is losing? Who knows.
Man would like to be an egoist and cannot. This is the most striking characteristic of his wretchedness and the source of his greatness." Simone Weil....Gravity and Grace
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Papus79
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Re: Deterioration of the human mind

Post by Papus79 »

Skyblack wrote: June 17th, 2021, 3:48 pm When one looks at the human condition one finds the human surrounded by problems. In order to cope with these problems the human looks at various solutions promised by ideologies, religions, politics, economics, science, and so forth. While few of man’s problems are practical but most of them are psychological. An example to better understand the distinction: If one does not have the basic needs of food, shelter, and clothes, this a practical problem. However, If one is psychologically insecure because they aren’t “comparable” or “better” than the Jones, then this a psychological problem.
I'm going to slightly disagree on this point - status is a combination of being able to find a partner with good genes and having your kids well positioned in society. In that sense it's deeply practical, and it's built on zero-sum battles where a certain large percentage of humanity always has to be failed on a distribution curve. This is part of why polygamous cultures tend to be considerably more violent.
Skyblack wrote: June 17th, 2021, 3:48 pmIn his constant effort to fix his problems by looking into the solutions proposed by the various brokers (Secular or Religious), it is clear the human has descended into a pattern of conformity, thus making the mind and the heart dull, insensitive, sluggish, blind, unresponsive, almost lifeless. A second hand machine at best, that constantly breaks down.
Two things going on simultaneously:
1) Man hoping that there's something that can be pulled down from the transcendent to remedy his situation.
2) Man shopping for pyramids that he can win at climbing (back to status).
Skyblack wrote: June 17th, 2021, 3:48 pmIt seems the human is not capable of looking at anything with fresh eyes or to adequately respond to the challenges life throws at him/her. Every new moment is met with the weight of the past and through the acquired filters. Thus all responses are partial and fragmentary.
If you end up being that person who can see things with a fresh pair of eyes there's a heavy burden that comes with it. Sit down at a table in a public gathering and say two things in a row that people haven't heard before and be ousted from the conversation or the circle. You'll be hearing 'Oh, I haven't heard that before' on repeat, and if it's people who trust you otherwise enough not to alienate or exclude you you can bring up that exact same point in a month and they'll say 'Oh, I never heard that before', and it can happen on repeat.

Human beings generally don't make sense of things from first principals, rather we tend to lick a finger, stick it in the air, and weight the importance of a believe on how many people believe it. When we were in tribes truth could only matter at the most basement level of 'Did we get a buffalo for dinner or didn't we? If not what went wrong - need to figure this out fast or we starve'. The alternative was quite often to go against the leader of your tribe and be exiled. Psychopaths and grifters take advantage of this, needless to say, day in and day out.
Skyblack wrote: June 17th, 2021, 3:48 pmHow can such a burdened human ever be free to meet a new unknown moment. How will such a weighed consciousness penetrate the tenuous workings of their own mind, and that of the universe.
Julia Galef wrote a book recently called 'The Scout Mindset: Why Some People See Things Clearly and Others Don't'. Per her set of analogies more people need to live in scout mode and less in soldier mode.
People aren't fundamentally good or fundamentally bad, we're fundamentally trying to survive. It's the environment and culture which tells us what that's going to be.
AverageBozo
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Re: Deterioration of the human mind

Post by AverageBozo »

Skyblack wrote: June 18th, 2021, 2:04 am Surely these are factual observations on how we function, and available to all. But whether the observer has worked on clearing observation from the defects listed in op, so as to get an accurate perception, is of course a separate matter.
So everyone has made the same observations as you except those whose observations are deficient?
AverageBozo
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Re: Deterioration of the human mind

Post by AverageBozo »

Skyblack wrote: June 18th, 2021, 2:04 am Surely these are factual observations on how we function, and available to all. But whether the observer has worked on clearing observation from the defects listed in op, so as to get an accurate perception, is of course a separate matter.
So everyone has made the same observations as you except those whose observations are deficient? A bold claim, indeed.
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Re: Deterioration of the human mind

Post by AverageBozo »

…..ignore…..
Skyblack
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Re: Deterioration of the human mind

Post by Skyblack »

So everyone has made the same observations as you except those whose observations are deficient?
So everyone has made the same observations as you except those whose observations are deficient? A bold claim, indeed.
…..ignore…..
No, everyone has the potential to make the observations mentioned in OP. Whether they do or not will depend on how free their minds are from the deteriorating effects of what has been said in OP.

We can add, knee jerk reactions, fixating on the person instead of the issue being discussed, as other obvious signs of such deterioration.
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Re: Deterioration of the human mind

Post by Pattern-chaser »

Skyblack wrote: June 17th, 2021, 3:48 pm When one looks at the human condition one finds the human surrounded by problems. In order to cope with these problems the human looks at various solutions promised by ideologies, religions, politics, economics, science, and so forth. While few of man’s problems are practical but most of them are psychological. An example to better understand the distinction: If one does not have the basic needs of food, shelter, and clothes, this a practical problem. However, If one is psychologically insecure because they aren’t “comparable” or “better” than the Jones, then this a psychological problem.

In his constant effort to fix his problems by looking into the solutions proposed by the various brokers (Secular or Religious), it is clear the human has descended into a pattern of conformity, thus making the mind and the heart dull, insensitive, sluggish, blind, unresponsive, almost lifeless. A second hand machine at best, that constantly breaks down.

It seems the human is not capable of looking at anything with fresh eyes or to adequately respond to the challenges life throws at him/her. Every new moment is met with the weight of the past and through the acquired filters. Thus all responses are partial and fragmentary.

How can such a burdened human ever be free to meet a new unknown moment. How will such a weighed consciousness penetrate the tenuous workings of their own mind, and that of the universe.
I have valued different perspectives very highly, since (years ago) I found out how useful they were to me in designing software. In this case, you see the glass as half empty. Others portray it as half full, but it's the same glass. It's not that what you say is wrong, more that there are other - equally valid - perspectives on the matter.
Pattern-chaser

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Skyblack
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Re: Deterioration of the human mind

Post by Skyblack »

In this case, you see the glass as half empty.
A clear mind will perceive facts as they are. Accurately and without bias. And will communicate the same in a similar manner.

It's/facts are not a matter of "perspectives" or "views" like half or full glasses.
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Re: Deterioration of the human mind

Post by Nick_A »

Skyblack
It seems the human is not capable of looking at anything with fresh eyes or to adequately respond to the challenges life throws at him/her. Every new moment is met with the weight of the past and through the acquired filters. Thus all responses are partial and fragmentary.
For those willing to experience the human condition as it exists in the world, it is obvious that it rejects new eyes to see and ears to hear. In short you are not wanted by the majority. Socrates invited people to see in a new way with fresh eyes so had to be killed. He disturbed the peace and corrupted the youth of Athens. Both are unpardonable sins.
A quote from this week that has been resonating with me is from Malcolm Muggeridge, he once said, “Never forget that only dead fish swim with the stream.”
It seems we have to be like salmon and fight the currents to swim back home or return to our origin in the need to feel meaning. The other choice is to be like dead fish which as you point out, is becoming more fashionable.
Man would like to be an egoist and cannot. This is the most striking characteristic of his wretchedness and the source of his greatness." Simone Weil....Gravity and Grace
Gee
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Re: Deterioration of the human mind

Post by Gee »

Skyblack wrote: June 18th, 2021, 11:53 am
In this case, you see the glass as half empty.
A clear mind will perceive facts as they are. Accurately and without bias. And will communicate the same in a similar manner.

It's/facts are not a matter of "perspectives" or "views" like half or full glasses.
This is absolute nonsense. Most, if not all, facts actually require interpretation -- without that interpretation nothing makes any sense.

The glass is half full -- fact. The glass is half empty -- fact.

If you think that I am wrong, then explain about facts that do not require interpretation.

Gee
Skyblack
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Re: Deterioration of the human mind

Post by Skyblack »

This is absolute nonsense. Most, if not all, facts actually require interpretation -- without that interpretation nothing makes any sense.

The glass is half full -- fact. The glass is half empty -- fact.

If you think that I am wrong, then explain about facts that do not require interpretation.

Gee
Well....i could go ahead and question the level of sense available to the mind that has posted the above but that would be rather silly.

But to answer you question, if you read the OP minus your biased reactions then you will find the words "without bias" have been used. The OP is pointing to an interpenetration free from subjective bias which may stem form one's affiliations, one's conditioning , one's beliefs so on and so forth.

Furthermore, there is another kind of observation where the word is not the thing. The word glass is not the actual glass. So it's possible to observe the glass without the word and the associated interpretations. But that kind of observation is beyond the pay-grade of a conditioned reactive mind.
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