What is the root cause of misogyny?

[mystery]

The Bitches, they just won't listen, look what they make me do!

yep, that's a man with no self-control, not masculine at all but emotional like a female.

Do you realize that this is a sexist statement? Both men and women have emotions, and how the express the emotion is individual, not gender based. Men can cry and women can be stoic.

yes, I do know it. it is still true. Means knowing that we have differences between the sexes. it is not a bad thing, it is scientific fact. to hide or teach differently is a shame and causes issues when ppl expect the same behavior from very different things. One is not better than the other, but absolutely different. I don't agree with any abuse, it is about recognizing strengths and weaknesses and managing to those.

I agree that men can cry and women can choose to control themselves when they think it is necessary or wants to. On the other side, sometimes when men cry they can not control themself.

[mystery]

Fear of rejection is very real, it is in this sense the utter lack of power. For a male who is very insecure, this can surely lead to resentment and misogyny of love hate if somewhat distanced relation. The women being the keeper of the gate itself may feed some resentment.

the fear is real, the actual rejection itself is crushing. most women will never experience that until they are older and maybe not even then.

[popeye1945]

Fear of rejection is very real, it is in this sense the utter lack of power. For a male who is very insecure, this can surely lead to resentment and misogyny of love hate if somewhat distanced relation. The women being the keeper of the gate itself may feed some resentment.

the fear is real, the actual rejection itself is crushing. most women will never experience that until they are older and maybe not even then.

I never thought about that but yes your right. Funny though, I knew of a couple of instances of remarkably attractive women never being asked out, simply because most males were frightened to death and sure they would be rejected. Along comes some guy either super confident or to stupid to be effected and bang, they are off to the chapel.

[Atla]

Cicero reports that Greek philosophers considered misogyny to be caused by gynophobia, a fear of women. It is the same with other diseases; as the desire of glory, a passion for women, to which the Greeks give the name of philogyneia: and thus all other diseases and sicknesses are generated.

Sun,
Excellent, the fear of women has to be at least one big part of it. When one is highly attracted to a woman, and you work up the courage to approach you are putting yourself in a highly vulnerable spot, yes, dam sure a big piece of it.

Misogyny is not about sex and intercourse. It is about power and control, and basis of that is fear.

Men in general don't fear letting women have power and control. They fear letting women have power and control while also knowing that women in general aren't capable of truly loving them, so they can't be trusted with power and control.

[mystery]

Cicero reports that Greek philosophers considered misogyny to be caused by gynophobia, a fear of women. It is the same with other diseases; as the desire of glory, a passion for women, to which the Greeks give the name of philogyneia: and thus all other diseases and sicknesses are generated.

Sun,
Excellent, the fear of women has to be at least one big part of it. When one is highly attracted to a woman, and you work up the courage to approach you are putting yourself in a highly vulnerable spot, yes, dam sure a big piece of it.

Misogyny is not about sex and intercourse. It is about power and control, and basis of that is fear.

Men in general don't fear letting women have power and control. They fear letting women have power and control while also knowing that women in general aren't capable of truly loving them, so they can't be trusted with power and control.

yes, but there is more to it. women will usually only respect and admire a man that has more power and control than they do. I didn't make that design mother nature did. If a man has any desire to attract a woman, he must demonstrate power and control in some fashion. Ideally in a very productive and useful way is best. Most women will choose a powerful criminal over a weak kind honest man. It is just how it is. I would design things differently if it was up to me.

[mystery]

Fear of rejection is very real, it is in this sense the utter lack of power. For a male who is very insecure, this can surely lead to resentment and misogyny of love hate if somewhat distanced relation. The women being the keeper of the gate itself may feed some resentment.

the fear is real, the actual rejection itself is crushing. most women will never experience that until they are older and maybe not even then.

I never thought about that but yes your right. Funny though, I knew of a couple of instances of remarkably attractive women never being asked out, simply because most males were frightened to death and sure they would be rejected. Along comes some guy either super confident or to stupid to be effected and bang, they are off to the chapel.

yes, and yes that is a story that plays out often.

[Pattern-chaser]

In this case, the woman is the third-party component and we must know what input she needs to get the output we want. If the man can learn that then the issue is solved.

This sentiment is seriously flawed. It says that, if a man can arrange things so that his misogynistic hatred of women is not provoked, he can pretend it doesn't exist. Feminists talk (disapprovingly) of the objectification of women, and it looks like that's what you're doing here. You consider and describe only the man's point of view, and how a man might "get the output we want". A woman's company (and maybe more than that) is not an "output" to be obtained. She is not there to be manipulated or coerced. She is not a thing to be f**ked. Those are the values of the century-before-last.

The man does not need to learn how to disguise his deformity while manipulating a woman into doing what he wants. He needs to address his deformity directly, not try to hide it. He needs to rid himself of the misogyny, which is the 'problem' to be 'solved'. The misogynist does not need relationship advice; he is far away from being able to take advantage of that.

First, he must learn to behave (socially) as other men do. Only then is he fit to be in the company of women. For as long as he remains a misogynist, he must be kept away from women, in the same way, and for the same reasons, as paedophiles are kept away from children. Modern thinking is that we consider the victims first, before anything or anyone else, and this thinking fits here like a glove.

I in no place have suggested manipulation as a solution, I am very much against that.

Yes, you say that, but I'm not sure it's the case. Consider:

MANIPULATION - The conscious and deliberate misleading of an individual by another individual either directly or indirectly in order to achieve a final aim.

Our discussion here is very much centred on psychology, so this is the meaning we are considering.

It really is as simple as giving good input to get desired output.

I.e. your advice to the man who is a misogynist is to learn how to say and do whatever it takes to persuade the woman to accept sex. This sentiment is manipulative. You seek to teach the man to manipulate the woman into sex, i.e. he gets the output "we want". This is deceptive and manipulative.

It is a very unusual woman who would agree to sex with a man who nurtures and abiding hatred for women. Thus your advice to the man, in this specific instance, is not to tell her he's a misogynist, otherwise he won't get the output "we want". This is deceptive and manipulative.

You also seek to disguise the man's misogyny by teaching him how to get the "the output we want", so that he will not be rejected, and so will not be 'provoked' into revealing his misogyny by expressing - practically and violently - his hatred for the woman he aims to have sex with. This is deceptive and manipulative.

And so on. Your advice is manipulative, I think, despite your claim to the contrary.

[Atla]

Sun,
Excellent, the fear of women has to be at least one big part of it. When one is highly attracted to a woman, and you work up the courage to approach you are putting yourself in a highly vulnerable spot, yes, dam sure a big piece of it.

Misogyny is not about sex and intercourse. It is about power and control, and basis of that is fear.

Men in general don't fear letting women have power and control. They fear letting women have power and control while also knowing that women in general aren't capable of truly loving them, so they can't be trusted with power and control.

yes, but there is more to it. women will usually only respect and admire a man that has more power and control than they do. I didn't make that design mother nature did. If a man has any desire to attract a woman, he must demonstrate power and control in some fashion. Ideally in a very productive and useful way is best. Most women will choose a powerful criminal over a weak kind honest man. It is just how it is. I would design things differently if it was up to me.

Yep, unfortunately we don't live in a benevolent world. Women's first priority is to maximize the welfare of their future offspring, and their second priority is to maximize their own welfare. So throughout history that meant seeking out healthy, tall males with good genes, with as much power, dominance, intelligence, resources, status as possible. If the man also happens to actually love the woman, the women will percieve that as the man being weak and beneath her, starts to control the man and lose respect. That's why even the most sought-after males have to hide this HUMAN side of theirs (if they have one).

[mystery]

In this case, the woman is the third-party component and we must know what input she needs to get the output we want. If the man can learn that then the issue is solved.

This sentiment is seriously flawed. It says that, if a man can arrange things so that his misogynistic hatred of women is not provoked, he can pretend it doesn't exist. Feminists talk (disapprovingly) of the objectification of women, and it looks like that's what you're doing here. You consider and describe only the man's point of view, and how a man might "get the output we want". A woman's company (and maybe more than that) is not an "output" to be obtained. She is not there to be manipulated or coerced. She is not a thing to be f**ked. Those are the values of the century-before-last.

The man does not need to learn how to disguise his deformity while manipulating a woman into doing what he wants. He needs to address his deformity directly, not try to hide it. He needs to rid himself of the misogyny, which is the 'problem' to be 'solved'. The misogynist does not need relationship advice; he is far away from being able to take advantage of that.

First, he must learn to behave (socially) as other men do. Only then is he fit to be in the company of women. For as long as he remains a misogynist, he must be kept away from women, in the same way, and for the same reasons, as paedophiles are kept away from children. Modern thinking is that we consider the victims first, before anything or anyone else, and this thinking fits here like a glove.

I in no place have suggested manipulation as a solution, I am very much against that.

Yes, you say that, but I'm not sure it's the case. Consider:

MANIPULATION - The conscious and deliberate misleading of an individual by another individual either directly or indirectly in order to achieve a final aim.

Our discussion here is very much centred on psychology, so this is the meaning we are considering.

It really is as simple as giving good input to get desired output.

I.e. your advice to the man who is a misogynist is to learn how to say and do whatever it takes to persuade the woman to accept sex. This sentiment is manipulative. You seek to teach the man to manipulate the woman into sex, i.e. he gets the output "we want". This is deceptive and manipulative.

It is a very unusual woman who would agree to sex with a man who nurtures and abiding hatred for women. Thus your advice to the man, in this specific instance, is not to tell her he's a misogynist, otherwise he won't get the output "we want". This is deceptive and manipulative.

You also seek to disguise the man's misogyny by teaching him how to get the "the output we want", so that he will not be rejected, and so will not be 'provoked' into revealing his misogyny by expressing - practically and violently - his hatred for the woman he aims to have sex with. This is deceptive and manipulative.

And so on. Your advice is manipulative, I think, despite your claim to the contrary.

I love your comments. It creates a perfect entry into the issue.

If a man has gone already to hate he will first need to learn what it is he hates and why. The emotion of hate and stronger one of rage is overwhelming and blurs the vision. Usually hate and rage is about intent. Something has happened but the focus is on why and the anger is for the why and the reasons. So step one is that a man must learn why a woman will do the actions he does not like. When he properly learns this his rage will move from her or them unto himself. From that point, he will be driven to either improve or stop existing. Either way, the hate for another is stopped.

For the men that improve they will learn how to be better men and much stronger men. It's a process and not easy. A simplification of the results is that many women will now accept them instead of rejecting them because they become one of the best or the best men available to the women. All very logical and it works.

He must first understand that none of the rejection is about him and who he is, it is about what he is and what he can do. From that, he will learn how and why women choose as they do. This usually brings the anger and rage but without any focus because of how unfair it is and no one cares. From that, he will realize he can either do better or choose to be a loser. Anger will then be at himself and it will fuel him to become much more until at some point he will know that it is ok. This man will be attractive and usually not rejected. The downside is he will have a memory of the path and know what and how all the actors are and what they are and how they do things. He will not hate others or himself at that point. I always tell that being mad at the water for running downhill is silly.

Chase, the man at the end of the process gives very different input to the woman than before the process. The input is both verbal and nonverbal, mostly nonverbal. He becomes what she wants.

[Atla]

Women want manly but secretely sensitive men, who are really devoted to them, who bring down the stars for them, who totally 'love' them, but don't actually LOVE them. What a paradox, a kick in the gut in the end, isn't it.
So is it a wonder that so many men have devolved to be emotionally deficient, if not outright sociopathic/psychopathic? And then women blame the problems of the world caused by the sociopathic men, on the good men, kicking them in the gut once more. And women are even oblivious to all this. It's all really hopeless.

[Pattern-chaser]

I love your comments.

Well that's lovely to hear. So why won't you address them? I have suggested that your 'solution' to misogyny is manipulative and deceptive. It is founded in male-supremacist myth and folklore, and - worse! - it is based on unjustified and unjustifiable armchair pseudo-psychology. It could even be dangerous, in the real world, if a misogynist read this, and decided to follow your advice.

Do you deny that your approach is manipulative and deceptive, or do you glory in it?

RSVP

[Pattern-chaser]

Women want manly but secretely sensitive men, who are really devoted to them, who bring down the stars for them, who totally 'love' them, but don't actually LOVE them.

Says who?

[LuckyR]

Women want manly but secretely sensitive men, who are really devoted to them, who bring down the stars for them, who totally 'love' them, but don't actually LOVE them. What a paradox, a kick in the gut in the end, isn't it.
So is it a wonder that so many men have devolved to be emotionally deficient, if not outright sociopathic/psychopathic? And then women blame the problems of the world caused by the sociopathic men, on the good men, kicking them in the gut once more. And women are even oblivious to all this. It's all really hopeless.

Oversimplify much?

[Atla]

Women want manly but secretely sensitive men, who are really devoted to them, who bring down the stars for them, who totally 'love' them, but don't actually LOVE them. What a paradox, a kick in the gut in the end, isn't it.
So is it a wonder that so many men have devolved to be emotionally deficient, if not outright sociopathic/psychopathic? And then women blame the problems of the world caused by the sociopathic men, on the good men, kicking them in the gut once more. And women are even oblivious to all this. It's all really hopeless.

Oversimplify much?

That's kinda the point of the topic?

[mystery]

I love your comments.

Well that's lovely to hear. So why won't you address them? I have suggested that your 'solution' to misogyny is manipulative and deceptive. It is founded in male-supremacist myth and folklore, and - worse! - it is based on unjustified and unjustifiable armchair pseudo-psychology. It could even be dangerous, in the real world, if a misogynist read this, and decided to follow your advice.

Do you deny that your approach is manipulative and deceptive, or do you glory in it?

RSVP

Do you really think that it is manipulative to become a better man? come on, that is just silly. re-read what I wrote and tell me how it is manipulative. for just a moment forget all of the rest of what you know about this, and read-only this post and tell me how you feel it is manipulative.

I love your comments. It creates a perfect entry into the issue.

If a man has gone already to hate he will first need to learn what it is he hates and why. The emotion of hate and stronger one of rage is overwhelming and blurs the vision. Usually hate and rage is about intent. Something has happened but the focus is on why and the anger is for the why and the reasons. So step one is that a man must learn why a woman will do the actions he does not like. When he properly learns this his rage will move from her or them unto himself. From that point, he will be driven to either improve or stop existing. Either way, the hate for another is stopped.

For the men that improve they will learn how to be better men and much stronger men. It's a process and not easy. A simplification of the results is that many women will now accept them instead of rejecting them because they become one of the best or the best men available to the women. All very logical and it works.

He must first understand that none of the rejection is about him and who he is, it is about what he is and what he can do. From that, he will learn how and why women choose as they do. This usually brings the anger and rage but without any focus because of how unfair it is and no one cares. From that, he will realize he can either do better or choose to be a loser. Anger will then be at himself and it will fuel him to become much more until at some point he will know that it is ok. This man will be attractive and usually not rejected. The downside is he will have a memory of the path and know what and how all the actors are and what they are and how they do things. He will not hate others or himself at that point. I always tell that being mad at the water for running downhill is silly.

Chase, the man at the end of the process gives very different input to the woman than before the process. The input is both verbal and nonverbal, mostly nonverbal. He becomes what she wants.