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Why the West must ban Muslim immigration

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Belindi
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Re: Why the West must ban Muslim immigration

Post by Belindi » July 12th, 2018, 2:05 pm

Iapetus wrote:
It shows up your inadequacies in this discussion.
Very many people are "inadequate" in a need, a psychological pressure, to find scapegoats . Scapegoats provide something solid to protest about, when the real causes of discontent are unassailable.

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baha
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Re: Why the West must ban Muslim immigration

Post by baha » July 12th, 2018, 10:20 pm

Greta wrote:
July 11th, 2018, 11:36 pm
baha wrote:
July 10th, 2018, 10:40 pm
and what is the value in argueing ? what you ( or anyone else ) has gained by it ? it is nothing but useless and waste of time.
We are still waiting for you to do something other than argue.

You even argued with me for agreeing with you!

If you believe there is no value in arguing you might want to try DISCUSSING issues rather than arguing. People will take you more seriously too.
im not something special so that people will take my seriously. thanks im not interested. it has no value.

and whatever that has value. i will show it in work, not in words. thanks.

Spectrum
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Re: Why the West must ban Muslim immigration

Post by Spectrum » July 13th, 2018, 1:55 am

Iapetus wrote:
July 12th, 2018, 6:49 am
Reply to Spectrum:
I'll address this critical points first and the others later;
You have written eight posts since then but you have still not got round to doing what you said you would do. This is because you are unable to do so; my criticisms were justified.

I will not respond to your 'noises' till your contents are reasonably justified.


I did exactly what you asked. I gave you a line-by-line breakdown with numerous examples of your incredibly poor use of ‘facts’ and of your prejudice and bigotry in addressing Muslims. You try to dislmiss this as ‘noise’ because it’s all you can do. It is a well-recognised strategy when somebody is unable to address an argument that they resort either to insults or to dismissals. It shows up your inadequacies in this discussion.
To response to your 'noises' will entail covering the following;
1. Human nature and its inherent evil tendency,
2. The history of violence by Islamists since 1,400 till today,
3. Ignorant of what is in the texts of the Quran,
4. The ongoing research relating to the term 'evil'.
5. Many other fields of knowledge re basic neuroscience, neuropsychology, etc.
But I noted your knowledge of the above is graded at 10/100 on average.
It is too burdensome for me to proceed.

I stated the Quran is loaded with evil laden verses but you countered my view when you have almost zero knowledge of what is in the Quran.
It is like you arguing with a Physicists on certain issues of Physics when you do not have any knowledge of Physics at all.
Not-a-theist. Religion is a critical necessity for humanity now, but not the FUTURE.

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Re: Why the West must ban Muslim immigration

Post by Spectrum » July 13th, 2018, 2:10 am

Belindi wrote:
July 12th, 2018, 6:19 am
Spectrum wrote:
Surprise you did not read my first sentence related to why I did not refer to other facts??

Here again;
I agree my remarks apply elsewhere but I was [had to] sticking to the OP, i.e. re Muslims.
Just in case;
I agree my remarks apply elsewhere but I was [had to] sticking to the OP, i.e. re Muslims [only].
Sorry. I should have explained exactly why the cause of some Muslims' truculence has the same cause as that of Christians, others, and even Buddhists. The cause of immoderate ideological behaviour , including immoderate Muslims , is ideology itself when it's divorced from facts. True, pugilistic verses in holy texts legitimate immoderate behaviour, but the actual cause of such behaviour is ignorance of facts which moderate the ideology in question.

You attribute immoderate Muslim behaviour solely to verses in the Koran and it blinkers your vision, because you have mistaken the cause. One frame of mind can cause the same behaviour among diverse peoples. You need to look at diverse peoples to understand the cause of Muslims behaving badly.
As I had stated there are many factors contributing to a person's action.

For all the evils and violence committed by SOME Muslims since the beginning of Islam, I have proven it has a direct and significant correlation to the evil laden verses in the Quran.
Many jihadists and Muslim evil doers has quoted from the Quran to justify their evil acts.

I have ignored the evil acts by Muslims which are not influenced by Islam and the Quran. There are Muslims who got involved with murder, drugs, robbery, various crimes, etc., which has nothing to do with Islam. If a Muslim killed another Muslim or non-Muslim out of jealousy in a triangle affair or suspicion, that has nothing to do with Islam per se.

My point is the Quran with its evil laden elements has a very significant influence on SOME [a pool of 300 million :shock: :shock: :shock: ] Muslims to commit terrible evil acts on non- Muslims solely because the non-Muslims are disbeliever which itself is an affront to Islam's self-claimed superiority.
Therefore it is wiser to ban mass Muslims immigration till there are effective preventive measures to ensure the evil prone Muslims can be identified.
Not-a-theist. Religion is a critical necessity for humanity now, but not the FUTURE.

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Re: Why the West must ban Muslim immigration

Post by ThomasHobbes » July 13th, 2018, 2:56 am

The West would be better of banning TRUMP

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Re: Why the West must ban Muslim immigration

Post by Iapetus » July 13th, 2018, 4:00 am

Reply to Spectrum:

To response to your 'noises' will entail covering the following;

1. Human nature and its inherent evil tendency,
2. The history of violence by Islamists since 1,400 till today,
3. Ignorant of what is in the texts of the Quran,
4. The ongoing research relating to the term 'evil'.
5. Many other fields of knowledge re basic neuroscience, neuropsychology, etc.
But I noted your knowledge of the above is graded at 10/100 on average.


You have graded my knowledge at 10/100 on average. But you have no idea of my level of knowledge regarding anything. You have just made another bigoted assertion!! Moreover, you have tried to justify it with a made-up ‘fact’, drawn from your imagination though, for you, that tends to be the norm. The ‘on average’ is totally meaningless and provides further evidence that you have no idea whatsover about how facts and statistics can be usefully employed.

It is too burdensome for me to proceed.


Yet you have no problems proceeding with the ‘burden’ of other posts. I might draw the conclusion, therefore, that you are, rather, completely unable to proceed because you cannot contradict the points I made. You just lost the argument.

I stated the Quran is loaded with evil laden verses but you countered my view when you have almost zero knowledge of what is in the Quran.
It is like you arguing with a Physicists on certain issues of Physics when you do not have any knowledge of Physics at all.


You have often seemed to have arrived at a conclusion that, because you have read a book, you have become a worldwide expert on the subject and that everybody else is proportionally stupid. This is the assumption you have made about me. It is a bigoted one. You know nothing about what I have read. The only item about the Quran on which we have touched is the issue of Taqiyya. I provided a sentence about this, to which you chose not to respond. That was your choice, but to then accuse me of not knowing anything is bigoted in the extreme.

To extend this bigotry into assumptions about other areas of knowledge simply compounds your shortcomings.

When you have trapped yourself in a hole the best advice generally is to stop digging.

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Re: Why the West must ban Muslim immigration

Post by Belindi » July 13th, 2018, 4:19 am

Spectrum, you are not good at selecting statistics. this is because your selection is biased by your scape- goating of Muslims.

I guess that there is some perceived intractable injustice that affects you personally, an injustice that you you have no means of diminishing except by making a scapegoat of an identifiable group of people.

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Re: Why the West must ban Muslim immigration

Post by Spectrum » July 15th, 2018, 1:01 am

Belindi wrote:
July 13th, 2018, 4:19 am
Spectrum, you are not good at selecting statistics. this is because your selection is biased by your scape- goating of Muslims.

I guess that there is some perceived intractable injustice that affects you personally, an injustice that you you have no means of diminishing except by making a scapegoat of an identifiable group of people.
Generally it is true there must be cause[s] that drive one's action.

My personal quest in the critique of Islam [btw not Muslims] is NOT due to perceived intractable injustice that affects me personally. I was not raped as a child by an iman in a Mosque nor was beaten by a Muslim. My concern [moral compass] is for humanity & its future and me being one human being of humanity.

I have stated many times, my vision is Perpetual World Peace and I have adopted one of the Boddhisattva Vow to have compassion and empathy for all humans.
There are many types of evil acts and potential that is hindering perpetual peace in the World.
It is not effective for anyone to give attention to all evil acts.
However one of the most glaring types of evil acts are those by SOME evil prone Muslims who are inspired by the evil laden texts from the Quran, i.e. the core of Islam.

I am not into politics or other social causes that cause evil acts but I am more well versed with philosophy and philosophy of religion. Thus I am contributing to World Peace from my forte and specialty in whatever ways possible, i.e. serious critique of Islam in this case.
This are the reasons why I am an active critique of Islam [note not Muslims] and its evil potential as threat to humanity in the future.
by making a scapegoat of an identifiable group of people.
This is a very serious wrong view and accusation. I understand your psychology [a serious weakness] why you are twisting facts on this.
I have already stated many times, my attention is on the ideology of Islam not Muslims-the believers as human beings.
Not-a-theist. Religion is a critical necessity for humanity now, but not the FUTURE.

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LuckyR
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Re: Why the West must ban Muslim immigration

Post by LuckyR » July 15th, 2018, 2:27 am

Spectrum wrote:
July 13th, 2018, 2:10 am
Belindi wrote:
July 12th, 2018, 6:19 am
Spectrum wrote:



Sorry. I should have explained exactly why the cause of some Muslims' truculence has the same cause as that of Christians, others, and even Buddhists. The cause of immoderate ideological behaviour , including immoderate Muslims , is ideology itself when it's divorced from facts. True, pugilistic verses in holy texts legitimate immoderate behaviour, but the actual cause of such behaviour is ignorance of facts which moderate the ideology in question.

You attribute immoderate Muslim behaviour solely to verses in the Koran and it blinkers your vision, because you have mistaken the cause. One frame of mind can cause the same behaviour among diverse peoples. You need to look at diverse peoples to understand the cause of Muslims behaving badly.
As I had stated there are many factors contributing to a person's action.

For all the evils and violence committed by SOME Muslims since the beginning of Islam, I have proven it has a direct and significant correlation to the evil laden verses in the Quran.
Many jihadists and Muslim evil doers has quoted from the Quran to justify their evil acts.

I have ignored the evil acts by Muslims which are not influenced by Islam and the Quran. There are Muslims who got involved with murder, drugs, robbery, various crimes, etc., which has nothing to do with Islam. If a Muslim killed another Muslim or non-Muslim out of jealousy in a triangle affair or suspicion, that has nothing to do with Islam per se.

My point is the Quran with its evil laden elements has a very significant influence on SOME [a pool of 300 million :shock: :shock: :shock: ] Muslims to commit terrible evil acts on non- Muslims solely because the non-Muslims are disbeliever which itself is an affront to Islam's self-claimed superiority.
Therefore it is wiser to ban mass Muslims immigration till there are effective preventive measures to ensure the evil prone Muslims can be identified.
Good news!! A couple years back they started vetting immigrants. You should have asked earlier and we could have closed this thread awhile ago.
"As usual... it depends."

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Re: Why the West must ban Muslim immigration

Post by Spectrum » July 15th, 2018, 2:41 am

LuckyR wrote:
July 15th, 2018, 2:27 am
Good news!! A couple years back they started vetting immigrants. You should have asked earlier and we could have closed this thread awhile ago.
Note recently Germany let in a million plus of mainly Muslim immigrants without proper vetting procedures. It was the same with France and other EU countries.
In the US, the loose attitude towards Muslim immigrants was practiced in the past until Trump decided to do something about it.

The point is the World must understand what the major part of Islam represent before they consider mass immigration of Muslims [re OP] into their non-Muslim majority country.

Note this map showing the number of terrorist attacks in the various European countries
https://michaelcolborne.files.wordpress ... =440&h=480

The map show there are no red and yellow dots in Poland.
(nb: there may be a few minor fights - not terror related- involving Muslims)
The reason is there are minimal immigration of Muslims to Poland.
Not-a-theist. Religion is a critical necessity for humanity now, but not the FUTURE.

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Re: Why the West must ban Muslim immigration

Post by LuckyR » July 15th, 2018, 5:00 am

Spectrum wrote:
July 15th, 2018, 2:41 am
LuckyR wrote:
July 15th, 2018, 2:27 am
Good news!! A couple years back they started vetting immigrants. You should have asked earlier and we could have closed this thread awhile ago.
Note recently Germany let in a million plus of mainly Muslim immigrants without proper vetting procedures. It was the same with France and other EU countries.
In the US, the loose attitude towards Muslim immigrants was practiced in the past until Trump decided to do something about it.

The point is the World must understand what the major part of Islam represent before they consider mass immigration of Muslims [re OP] into their non-Muslim majority country.

Note this map showing the number of terrorist attacks in the various European countries
https://michaelcolborne.files.wordpress ... =440&h=480

The map show there are no red and yellow dots in Poland.
(nb: there may be a few minor fights - not terror related- involving Muslims)
The reason is there are minimal immigration of Muslims to Poland.
Loose compared to what? Since the 1970s the US has taken in over 3 million refugees and there has not been a single fatal terrorist attack from a refugee in the US since. Oh and by the way, of the three fatalities by refugee terrorists on US soil in the 70s, they carried out by Cubans, a traditionally Catholic nation.
"As usual... it depends."

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Re: Why the West must ban Muslim immigration

Post by Spectrum » July 15th, 2018, 6:50 am

LuckyR wrote:
July 15th, 2018, 5:00 am
Spectrum wrote:
July 15th, 2018, 2:41 am
Note recently Germany let in a million plus of mainly Muslim immigrants without proper vetting procedures. It was the same with France and other EU countries.
In the US, the loose attitude towards Muslim immigrants was practiced in the past until Trump decided to do something about it.

The point is the World must understand what the major part of Islam represent before they consider mass immigration of Muslims [re OP] into their non-Muslim majority country.

Note this map showing the number of terrorist attacks in the various European countries
https://michaelcolborne.files.wordpress ... =440&h=480

The map show there are no red and yellow dots in Poland.
(nb: there may be a few minor fights - not terror related- involving Muslims)
The reason is there are minimal immigration of Muslims to Poland.
Loose compared to what? Since the 1970s the US has taken in over 3 million refugees and there has not been a single fatal terrorist attack from a refugee in the US since. Oh and by the way, of the three fatalities by refugee terrorists on US soil in the 70s, they carried out by Cubans, a traditionally Catholic nation.
Topic refer to immigration of Muslims not specifically refugees.
Whatever the evil terrorist or any other attacks they must be condemned but this OP is about Muslims.

Note the following terrorist attacks by Muslim;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism ... _extremism

If there are no restraints by the current government, there will be more terrorist attacks by Muslims accepted into the United States because for a percentile they deem it as their divine duty to kill non-Muslims any time they feel more zealous to please God.

Note these killers were not personally victims of innocent Americans but the innocent were killed because they were non-Muslims, i.e. deemed as insulting Islam the superior religion.


  • February 26, 1993 World Trade Center bombing, (New York City): Islamist terrorists detonate a massive truck bomb under the World Trade Center, killing six people and injuring over 1,000 in an effort to collapse the towers.

    1994 Brooklyn Bridge shooting a van filled with schoolboys targeted by Muslim extremist.

    July 28, 2006 Seattle Jewish Federation shooting, (Seattle, WA): An "angry" Muslim-American uses a young girl as hostage to enter a local Jewish center, where he shoots six women, one of whom dies.

    May 2009 Bronx terrorism plot Islamist extremists plan to bomb synagogue

    June 1, 2009 Little Rock recruiting office shooting, (Little Rock, AR): A Man shoots a local soldier to death inside a recruiting center explicitly in the name of Allah.

    November 5, 2009 Fort Hood shooting, Ft. Hood, Texas: A Muslim psychiatrist guns down thirteen unarmed soldiers while yelling praises to Allah.

    September 11, 2011 Waltham triple murder, (Waltham, MA): Three Jewish men have their throats slashed by Islamist terrorists.

    April 15, 2013 - Boston Marathon bombing (Boston, MA): Foreign-born Muslims detonate two bombs packed with ball bearings at the Boston Marathon, killing three people and causing several more to lose limbs.

    September 25, 2014 - Vaughan Foods beheading incident, (Moore, OK): A Sharia advocate beheads a woman after calling for Islamic terror and posting an Islamist beheading photo.

    July 16, 2015 Chattanooga shootings, Chattanooga, Tennessee: A Muslim commits a shooting spree at a recruiting center at a strip mall and a naval center, leaving five soldiers dead at the latter location.

    November 4, 2015 - University of California, Merced stabbing attack by Islamist extremist

    December 2, 2015 San Bernardino attack, San Bernardino, California: A couple opens fire at a Christmas party, leaving fourteen dead.

    February 11, 2016 - Ohio restaurant machete attack by Islamist extremist

    June 12, 2016 Orlando nightclub shooting, Orlando, Florida: Omar Mateen shoots and kills 49 people and injures 58 more at a gay bar, the largest mass shooting in U.S. history at the time.

    November 28, 2016 - Ohio State University attack, Columbas, Ohio: A Somalian student, Abdul Artan, who came to the U.S. as a refugee, intentionally rammed a car into pedestrians on a busy campus sidewalk on Monday morning and then began slashing passers-by with a butcher knife, the authorities said, injuring 11 students and faculty and staff members.

    October 31, 2017 - 2017 New York City truck attack, New York City: 29-year-old Sayfullo Habibullaevich Saipov rented a Home Depot pickup truck and intentionally drove it through a bicycle path. He crashed into a school bus and then exited the vehicle wielding look-a-like weapons. He was shot by NYPD. 8 people were killed and 12 were injured.
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Re: Why the West must ban Muslim immigration

Post by Belindi » July 15th, 2018, 10:30 am

Spectrum wrote:
my attention is on the ideology of Islam not Muslims-the believers as human beings.
But your suggestion is not that the ideology be banned but that Muslims be banned.

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Re: Why the West must ban Muslim immigration

Post by Spectrum » July 15th, 2018, 11:05 pm

Belindi wrote:
July 15th, 2018, 10:30 am
Spectrum wrote:
my attention is on the ideology of Islam not Muslims-the believers as human beings.
But your suggestion is not that the ideology be banned but that Muslims be banned.
It is inevitable all ideologies by default has to involve human beings.
Therefore Islam being the ideology inevitably has to involve Muslims as believers.

Note the typical solution to any epidemic where a few are involved inevitably always involved the whole population of a group related to the incidents. Example ebola, where anyone from countries which has ebola are stopped from travelling outside the country or even outside their towns or house.

In the case of Islam the very malignant evil religion, it is wiser to curb whatever the associated problems by restraining the movement of Islam which inevitably involved movement of Muslims.

Note the case in Europe and UK where no serious attention were given to the ideology of Islam, the evil malignant religion, since 50 years ago and the result is terror attacks, mass child rapes, etc. Instead the usual excuse is always the lie 'Islam is a religion of peace.'
If serious attention had been given to Islam itself to know the fact that Islam itself is evil and malignant, then preventive actions would have been taken which inevitably involved Muslims.

Note if Muslims convert out of their ideology, i.e. Islam to other religions or totally out of religion, they [in terms of religionl] will not be a serious threat to humanity. For example we can be assured a typical Christian whose ideology commands him to love his enemies will not be a threat to humanity.

Why the West must ban Muslims immigration is not because the people are Muslims but that the ideology they adopted, i.e. Islam is inherently very evil and malignant.
Not-a-theist. Religion is a critical necessity for humanity now, but not the FUTURE.

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Re: Why the West must ban Muslim immigration

Post by Greta » July 16th, 2018, 12:10 am

Spectrum, I can't help noticing that you are more red hot keen about the Muslim issue than just about anyone else about any topic on any philosophy forum I have encountered.

Why??? Why just keep repeating these same assertions over and over, day after day? Over and over ... evil ideology ... immanent danger etc. Over and over and over ...........

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