Why do we exist?
- Sy Borg
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Re: Why do we exist?
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- Posts: 658
- Joined: September 10th, 2017, 11:57 am
Re: Why do we exist?
ADVENTURE
Mountains there are
To tooth the horizon,
And lakes to trap the sky
In between the forests.
There is no destination,
Only the push to go,
To mingle into strangeness,
Run a finger over rough rock,
Test the strength of a vine,
Watch the sway of tall trees
Against the steady slide of clouds.
Bright green smells of grass breeze by
And birds shoot sharp whistle darts.
Surprises erupt. A rabbit sprints,
A raccoon scuttles, a snake
Like liquid mercury flows around rocks,
Through stalks to vanish
Like a beautiful elusive idea.
Through there the future lies.
Maybe bears, perhaps wildcats.
No dragons, hippogriffs, nor dinosaurs.
No epiphanies with angels, elves, nor green men
Snooping out of flying saucers.
I can still walk, climb, smell,
See even tiny leaves on mosses,
Spot the industry of ants, watch flies hover,
Delight in the colored stars of tiny blooms,
Be startled by the blast of sunlit diamonds
On a dew beaded spider web.
Ahead may be chasms and rivers
And perhaps, at the end,
A reward of the broad forehead of the sea.
There goes a black and yellow striped butterfly,
A Tinkerbell amongst the trees.
Here we go.
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- Joined: May 22nd, 2015, 12:02 pm
Re: Why do we exist?
I'm from Indonesia. Sorry for the late join on this existential thread/post. I agree with the OP. I've come to the same conclusion after years of thinking, pondering, & searching for meaning of life. Although I am still a nihilist now, but from my personal life's experiences, as well as observations, I've now become more of a pessimist (eg: Philosophical Pessimism, and in my opinion, its 'sub-categories' such as: Antinatalism, Efilism, Promortalism, Depressive Realism, etc etc). Life is hard, reality is depressing. Life is random too, also in the sense that some people are lucky, some people are not. Those "lucky" people (perhaps including the 'ignorant' ones, which in my opinion is majority of people on this planet) probably will never think about all these 'existential' questions, since it's probably just a waste of time for them. Heck, there is even now a term called "Optimistic Nihilism", with so many 'optimistic' nihilists now (apparently most from today's young generation eg: Gen Z). But nihilism doesn't always have to be 'positive' nor 'optimistic' in its conclusion, too. Maybe it's just human's nature that people will usually just try to be "positive/optimistic", & even they delude themselves, from the harsh truth (& reality).Bebelle wrote: ↑November 24th, 2017, 6:52 pm Have you ever felt that everything you do and will do is meaningless? That no matter how great you are at something you will never be truly important, and that's when you are good at something, because most of the time you are just average. So why should we live if our existence has no importance, if it is not going to make any difference in the world? No big changes, you are just one more person like many others.
Sorry if I've rambled on. But I think you all probably got my point.
Thank you.
- GrayArea
- Posts: 374
- Joined: March 16th, 2021, 12:17 am
Re: Why do we exist?
An existentialist point of view explains this perfectly in my opinion. This is a quote by Albert Camus:Bebelle wrote: ↑November 24th, 2017, 6:52 pm Have you ever felt that everything you do and will do is meaningless? That no matter how great you are at something you will never be truly important, and that's when you are good at something, because most of the time you are just average. So why should we live if our existence has no importance, if it is not going to make any difference in the world? No big changes, you are just one more person like many others.
“The literal meaning of life is whatever you're doing that prevents you from killing yourself.”
We only exist because we're not letting ourselves die. Also it's much more productive to do at least something, anything, as an alive being, than to completely not exist and do nothing. The only time our existence has completely no importance whatsoever is when our existence does not exist.
- LuckyR
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Re: Why do we exist?
It reveals a lot about the human condition that being important is so, well important. Why do we have to be important? Why are human egos so fragile? From whom do we seek the label of importance?GrayArea wrote: ↑April 9th, 2022, 8:21 amAn existentialist point of view explains this perfectly in my opinion. This is a quote by Albert Camus:Bebelle wrote: ↑November 24th, 2017, 6:52 pm Have you ever felt that everything you do and will do is meaningless? That no matter how great you are at something you will never be truly important, and that's when you are good at something, because most of the time you are just average. So why should we live if our existence has no importance, if it is not going to make any difference in the world? No big changes, you are just one more person like many others.
“The literal meaning of life is whatever you're doing that prevents you from killing yourself.”
We only exist because we're not letting ourselves die. Also it's much more productive to do at least something, anything, as an alive being, than to completely not exist and do nothing. The only time our existence has completely no importance whatsoever is when our existence does not exist.
To me that's what happens when simple minds have too much free time to "think".
- GrayArea
- Posts: 374
- Joined: March 16th, 2021, 12:17 am
Re: Why do we exist?
I think striving for importance is deeply drilled into our nature. It's as if it's a direct product of life.LuckyR wrote: ↑April 10th, 2022, 2:46 amIt reveals a lot about the human condition that being important is so, well important. Why do we have to be important? Why are human egos so fragile? From whom do we seek the label of importance?GrayArea wrote: ↑April 9th, 2022, 8:21 amAn existentialist point of view explains this perfectly in my opinion. This is a quote by Albert Camus:Bebelle wrote: ↑November 24th, 2017, 6:52 pm Have you ever felt that everything you do and will do is meaningless? That no matter how great you are at something you will never be truly important, and that's when you are good at something, because most of the time you are just average. So why should we live if our existence has no importance, if it is not going to make any difference in the world? No big changes, you are just one more person like many others.
“The literal meaning of life is whatever you're doing that prevents you from killing yourself.”
We only exist because we're not letting ourselves die. Also it's much more productive to do at least something, anything, as an alive being, than to completely not exist and do nothing. The only time our existence has completely no importance whatsoever is when our existence does not exist.
To me that's what happens when simple minds have too much free time to "think".
To strive importance is to be meaningful, and to live is to mean something, as life and awareness itself is essentially a physical manifestation of meaning. To be aware of oneself and the world is also to give meaning to them.
Even when one actively and purposefully strays from being important, one is doing it because to that person, that act still has meaning. If it didn't, then one would not have done it.
Perhaps we strive for importance because meaning is all we know of and all we do, and so we naturally try to "do it more".
- LuckyR
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Re: Why do we exist?
But importance, like beauty is in the eye of the beholder. So whose opinion decides that you are important? The number of people whose opinions I give a damn about is extremely small and doesn't include any published philosophers.GrayArea wrote: ↑April 10th, 2022, 3:34 amI think striving for importance is deeply drilled into our nature. It's as if it's a direct product of life.LuckyR wrote: ↑April 10th, 2022, 2:46 amIt reveals a lot about the human condition that being important is so, well important. Why do we have to be important? Why are human egos so fragile? From whom do we seek the label of importance?GrayArea wrote: ↑April 9th, 2022, 8:21 amAn existentialist point of view explains this perfectly in my opinion. This is a quote by Albert Camus:Bebelle wrote: ↑November 24th, 2017, 6:52 pm Have you ever felt that everything you do and will do is meaningless? That no matter how great you are at something you will never be truly important, and that's when you are good at something, because most of the time you are just average. So why should we live if our existence has no importance, if it is not going to make any difference in the world? No big changes, you are just one more person like many others.
“The literal meaning of life is whatever you're doing that prevents you from killing yourself.”
We only exist because we're not letting ourselves die. Also it's much more productive to do at least something, anything, as an alive being, than to completely not exist and do nothing. The only time our existence has completely no importance whatsoever is when our existence does not exist.
To me that's what happens when simple minds have too much free time to "think".
To strive importance is to be meaningful, and to live is to mean something, as life and awareness itself is essentially a physical manifestation of meaning. To be aware of oneself and the world is also to give meaning to them.
Even when one actively and purposefully strays from being important, one is doing it because to that person, that act still has meaning. If it didn't, then one would not have done it.
Perhaps we strive for importance because meaning is all we know of and all we do, and so we naturally try to "do it more".
- GrayArea
- Posts: 374
- Joined: March 16th, 2021, 12:17 am
Re: Why do we exist?
You're saying that one's own importance comes from others, and not ourselves? Because I think that importance only comes from the self.LuckyR wrote: ↑April 10th, 2022, 3:53 amBut importance, like beauty is in the eye of the beholder. So whose opinion decides that you are important? The number of people whose opinions I give a damn about is extremely small and doesn't include any published philosophers.GrayArea wrote: ↑April 10th, 2022, 3:34 amI think striving for importance is deeply drilled into our nature. It's as if it's a direct product of life.LuckyR wrote: ↑April 10th, 2022, 2:46 amIt reveals a lot about the human condition that being important is so, well important. Why do we have to be important? Why are human egos so fragile? From whom do we seek the label of importance?GrayArea wrote: ↑April 9th, 2022, 8:21 am
An existentialist point of view explains this perfectly in my opinion. This is a quote by Albert Camus:
“The literal meaning of life is whatever you're doing that prevents you from killing yourself.”
We only exist because we're not letting ourselves die. Also it's much more productive to do at least something, anything, as an alive being, than to completely not exist and do nothing. The only time our existence has completely no importance whatsoever is when our existence does not exist.
To me that's what happens when simple minds have too much free time to "think".
To strive importance is to be meaningful, and to live is to mean something, as life and awareness itself is essentially a physical manifestation of meaning. To be aware of oneself and the world is also to give meaning to them.
Even when one actively and purposefully strays from being important, one is doing it because to that person, that act still has meaning. If it didn't, then one would not have done it.
Perhaps we strive for importance because meaning is all we know of and all we do, and so we naturally try to "do it more".
Other people can consider someone unimportant only because that they are themselves, and importance comes from the self.
But that "someone" would only care about how important they are to others, if that was an important thing for that someone to think about.
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Re: Why do we exist?
A better question here might be: Why is life important? Or perhaps, should every human life seek a purpose? Or, if each person doesn't seek a purpose for his/her life, are you wasting your life? Or something like one of those, if you really want to get philosophical about it.
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Re: Why do we exist?
- LuckyR
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Re: Why do we exist?
Of course, the opinion of one's importance can (and you're saying should) come from self evaluation. However, by that measure depressed folks would have low importance but medicated depressed people would have more importance. That paradigm seems arbitrary and thus not very interesting (or important) to my eye.GrayArea wrote: ↑April 10th, 2022, 4:03 amYou're saying that one's own importance comes from others, and not ourselves? Because I think that importance only comes from the self.LuckyR wrote: ↑April 10th, 2022, 3:53 amBut importance, like beauty is in the eye of the beholder. So whose opinion decides that you are important? The number of people whose opinions I give a damn about is extremely small and doesn't include any published philosophers.GrayArea wrote: ↑April 10th, 2022, 3:34 amI think striving for importance is deeply drilled into our nature. It's as if it's a direct product of life.LuckyR wrote: ↑April 10th, 2022, 2:46 am
It reveals a lot about the human condition that being important is so, well important. Why do we have to be important? Why are human egos so fragile? From whom do we seek the label of importance?
To me that's what happens when simple minds have too much free time to "think".
To strive importance is to be meaningful, and to live is to mean something, as life and awareness itself is essentially a physical manifestation of meaning. To be aware of oneself and the world is also to give meaning to them.
Even when one actively and purposefully strays from being important, one is doing it because to that person, that act still has meaning. If it didn't, then one would not have done it.
Perhaps we strive for importance because meaning is all we know of and all we do, and so we naturally try to "do it more".
Other people can consider someone unimportant only because that they are themselves, and importance comes from the self.
But that "someone" would only care about how important they are to others, if that was an important thing for that someone to think about.
- GrayArea
- Posts: 374
- Joined: March 16th, 2021, 12:17 am
Re: Why do we exist?
Some depressed people, in my eyes, have importance. And I am a self. So it still stands that importance comes from the self.LuckyR wrote: ↑April 11th, 2022, 3:10 amOf course, the opinion of one's importance can (and you're saying should) come from self evaluation. However, by that measure depressed folks would have low importance but medicated depressed people would have more importance. That paradigm seems arbitrary and thus not very interesting (or important) to my eye.GrayArea wrote: ↑April 10th, 2022, 4:03 amYou're saying that one's own importance comes from others, and not ourselves? Because I think that importance only comes from the self.LuckyR wrote: ↑April 10th, 2022, 3:53 amBut importance, like beauty is in the eye of the beholder. So whose opinion decides that you are important? The number of people whose opinions I give a damn about is extremely small and doesn't include any published philosophers.GrayArea wrote: ↑April 10th, 2022, 3:34 am
I think striving for importance is deeply drilled into our nature. It's as if it's a direct product of life.
To strive importance is to be meaningful, and to live is to mean something, as life and awareness itself is essentially a physical manifestation of meaning. To be aware of oneself and the world is also to give meaning to them.
Even when one actively and purposefully strays from being important, one is doing it because to that person, that act still has meaning. If it didn't, then one would not have done it.
Perhaps we strive for importance because meaning is all we know of and all we do, and so we naturally try to "do it more".
Other people can consider someone unimportant only because that they are themselves, and importance comes from the self.
But that "someone" would only care about how important they are to others, if that was an important thing for that someone to think about.
- GrayArea
- Posts: 374
- Joined: March 16th, 2021, 12:17 am
Re: Why do we exist?
Another argument to this is that the way we perceive does not decide importance, it only discovers them. Importance is made through actions—even when no one has perceived a sense of importance within someone, that someone can still be important. Then again, I am saying as if I "know" that "someone" is important, as if I have already perceived that someone.LuckyR wrote: ↑April 11th, 2022, 3:10 amOf course, the opinion of one's importance can (and you're saying should) come from self evaluation. However, by that measure depressed folks would have low importance but medicated depressed people would have more importance. That paradigm seems arbitrary and thus not very interesting (or important) to my eye.GrayArea wrote: ↑April 10th, 2022, 4:03 amYou're saying that one's own importance comes from others, and not ourselves? Because I think that importance only comes from the self.LuckyR wrote: ↑April 10th, 2022, 3:53 amBut importance, like beauty is in the eye of the beholder. So whose opinion decides that you are important? The number of people whose opinions I give a damn about is extremely small and doesn't include any published philosophers.GrayArea wrote: ↑April 10th, 2022, 3:34 am
I think striving for importance is deeply drilled into our nature. It's as if it's a direct product of life.
To strive importance is to be meaningful, and to live is to mean something, as life and awareness itself is essentially a physical manifestation of meaning. To be aware of oneself and the world is also to give meaning to them.
Even when one actively and purposefully strays from being important, one is doing it because to that person, that act still has meaning. If it didn't, then one would not have done it.
Perhaps we strive for importance because meaning is all we know of and all we do, and so we naturally try to "do it more".
Other people can consider someone unimportant only because that they are themselves, and importance comes from the self.
But that "someone" would only care about how important they are to others, if that was an important thing for that someone to think about.
- LuckyR
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- Joined: January 18th, 2015, 1:16 am
Re: Why do we exist?
Huh? Everyone is a self... to THEMSELVES. No one is the self to someone else. I'm OK with whatever you propose, BUT it needs to be internally consistent.GrayArea wrote: ↑April 11th, 2022, 6:06 amSome depressed people, in my eyes, have importance. And I am a self. So it still stands that importance comes from the self.LuckyR wrote: ↑April 11th, 2022, 3:10 amOf course, the opinion of one's importance can (and you're saying should) come from self evaluation. However, by that measure depressed folks would have low importance but medicated depressed people would have more importance. That paradigm seems arbitrary and thus not very interesting (or important) to my eye.GrayArea wrote: ↑April 10th, 2022, 4:03 amYou're saying that one's own importance comes from others, and not ourselves? Because I think that importance only comes from the self.
Other people can consider someone unimportant only because that they are themselves, and importance comes from the self.
But that "someone" would only care about how important they are to others, if that was an important thing for that someone to think about.
Think about it and post back.
- LuckyR
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Re: Why do we exist?
Oh, I already said that folks who feel they are unimportant can be (and probably are) important... to someone else. That's my thing. What's your thing? Is it solely one's own opinion (the self like you said before) or something else?GrayArea wrote: ↑April 11th, 2022, 6:09 amAnother argument to this is that the way we perceive does not decide importance, it only discovers them. Importance is made through actions—even when no one has perceived a sense of importance within someone, that someone can still be important. Then again, I am saying as if I "know" that "someone" is important, as if I have already perceived that someone.LuckyR wrote: ↑April 11th, 2022, 3:10 amOf course, the opinion of one's importance can (and you're saying should) come from self evaluation. However, by that measure depressed folks would have low importance but medicated depressed people would have more importance. That paradigm seems arbitrary and thus not very interesting (or important) to my eye.GrayArea wrote: ↑April 10th, 2022, 4:03 amYou're saying that one's own importance comes from others, and not ourselves? Because I think that importance only comes from the self.
Other people can consider someone unimportant only because that they are themselves, and importance comes from the self.
But that "someone" would only care about how important they are to others, if that was an important thing for that someone to think about.
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