What are the Gods of man?

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Ecurb
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Re: What are the Gods of man?

Post by Ecurb »

Bloom had a sort of standard taste that represents the pre-political literary establishment. I think most literature experts would rank Whitman as the greatest (or close to it) American poet ("greatest" implying both quality and influence). Dickinson was clearly a genius, and, (like Whitman) was highly innovative and original, but, perhaps because her genius was so idiosyncratic, she hasn't been as infuential.

Of course the opinions of critics need not change your opinion. Taste is personal. I hated Whitman as a youth, mainly because the Whitman poem that was taught in my high school was "O Captain, My Captain", saccharinhe even by Whitman's romantic standards. It wasn't until I returned to his work years later that I grew to appreciate him. (Although if you don't like "Learned Astronomer", Whitman may not be for you).

Swinburne is a minor poet -- but I love his skill with rhythm and rhyme. His poem to Whitman is longer than the bit I quoted, but the quoted stanza shows off some of Swinburne's talent.
evolution
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Re: What are the Gods of man?

Post by evolution »

Greta wrote: February 14th, 2021, 10:17 pm
Ecurb wrote: February 14th, 2021, 8:31 pm
Greta wrote: February 14th, 2021, 3:21 pm

The 10,000 hours idea does not work. Some musicians practice for far longer and never achieve mastery while there are young children who achieve extraordinary control and mastery after just a few years of playing. It's not just hours but the quality of the practice.

Thing is, Christians rarely practice "love thy neighbour" and, for the most part, they have been amongst the worst dividers of people. Nowadays Christians largely practice the "prosperity gospel", which considers the poor to be human garbage, deserving of their fate, while they see the rich as having earned their rewards (after all, it takes some skill, or at least good contacts, to avoid paying tax on millions of dollars of earnings).

In my experience, rather than "love thy neighbour", I see "hate your neighbour", "exploit your neighbour" and "who gives a damn about your neighbour". Sure, there's the occasional sincere theist or well-meaning humanist, but we are mostly still just competitive animals. For now ...
I think Gladwell meant that proficiency requires 10,000 hours of training, not that the training guarantees proficiency. (I have no opinion as to whether he is right.)

You seem to be an orthodox Christian yourself, Greta, with your notion that humans are sinners. "For there is none righteous, no, not one." (Romans)
I suppose I might have qualified as a Christian up to age nine, when I figured it wasn't true.
What is the 'it' here, which you, supposedly, figured out was not true?
Greta wrote: February 14th, 2021, 10:17 pmI don't think humans and other animals are quite capable of righteousness, although I expect that some come close. The fact is that, like any other animal, we have to kill and exploit other species to survive. And you can't love your neighbour as you love yourself of you'd give them half your money and resources. You can care about them to some extent, but there are limits, as we will find out if enough people have trouble finding enough to eat.

If some people manage to transcend biology, or at least those biological imperatives, then perhaps they can be more selfless but I'm not holding my breath.
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Sy Borg
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Re: What are the Gods of man?

Post by Sy Borg »

evolution wrote: February 14th, 2021, 10:29 pm
Greta wrote: February 14th, 2021, 10:17 pm
Ecurb wrote: February 14th, 2021, 8:31 pm
Greta wrote: February 14th, 2021, 3:21 pm

The 10,000 hours idea does not work. Some musicians practice for far longer and never achieve mastery while there are young children who achieve extraordinary control and mastery after just a few years of playing. It's not just hours but the quality of the practice.

Thing is, Christians rarely practice "love thy neighbour" and, for the most part, they have been amongst the worst dividers of people. Nowadays Christians largely practice the "prosperity gospel", which considers the poor to be human garbage, deserving of their fate, while they see the rich as having earned their rewards (after all, it takes some skill, or at least good contacts, to avoid paying tax on millions of dollars of earnings).

In my experience, rather than "love thy neighbour", I see "hate your neighbour", "exploit your neighbour" and "who gives a damn about your neighbour". Sure, there's the occasional sincere theist or well-meaning humanist, but we are mostly still just competitive animals. For now ...
I think Gladwell meant that proficiency requires 10,000 hours of training, not that the training guarantees proficiency. (I have no opinion as to whether he is right.)

You seem to be an orthodox Christian yourself, Greta, with your notion that humans are sinners. "For there is none righteous, no, not one." (Romans)
I suppose I might have qualified as a Christian up to age nine, when I figured it wasn't true.
What is the 'it' here, which you, supposedly, figured out was not true?
Greta wrote: February 14th, 2021, 10:17 pmI don't think humans and other animals are quite capable of righteousness, although I expect that some come close. The fact is that, like any other animal, we have to kill and exploit other species to survive. And you can't love your neighbour as you love yourself of you'd give them half your money and resources. You can care about them to some extent, but there are limits, as we will find out if enough people have trouble finding enough to eat.

If some people manage to transcend biology, or at least those biological imperatives, then perhaps they can be more selfless but I'm not holding my breath.
Many of its claims, I expect. After over half a century, the memory is not super fresh.
Ecurb
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Re: What are the Gods of man?

Post by Ecurb »

Greta wrote: February 14th, 2021, 10:17 pm
I suppose I might have qualified as a Christian up to age nine, when I figured it wasn't true.
Since this thread is evolving into a poetry discussion, I'll quote Keats:

" Beauty is truth, truth beauty,—that is all
Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know."

So the question (possibly) is whether Christianity is beautiful. No doubt it is ugly, in many of its aspects. But is it beautiful? And if so, does that make it "true" (in some Keatsian way)?
Tegularius
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Re: What are the Gods of man?

Post by Tegularius »

Does poetry mean anything at all anymore? Whether acknowledged great or inferior it means nothing to most people. The long sequence of centuries when poetry was considered one of the enduring arts as much philosophy as verbal art has deteriorated into the least important art of all. It was most often poetry which described the gods best which is perhaps one reason why poetry is no-longer required or appreciated. The semi-mystical religious feeling for god and nature no-longer finds a home in the modern psyche. The inspiration which created it is now defunct.
The earth has a skin and that skin has diseases; one of its diseases is called man ... Nietzsche
evolution
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Re: What are the Gods of man?

Post by evolution »

Greta wrote: February 14th, 2021, 10:33 pm
evolution wrote: February 14th, 2021, 10:29 pm
Greta wrote: February 14th, 2021, 10:17 pm
Ecurb wrote: February 14th, 2021, 8:31 pm

I think Gladwell meant that proficiency requires 10,000 hours of training, not that the training guarantees proficiency. (I have no opinion as to whether he is right.)

You seem to be an orthodox Christian yourself, Greta, with your notion that humans are sinners. "For there is none righteous, no, not one." (Romans)
I suppose I might have qualified as a Christian up to age nine, when I figured it wasn't true.
What is the 'it' here, which you, supposedly, figured out was not true?
Greta wrote: February 14th, 2021, 10:17 pmI don't think humans and other animals are quite capable of righteousness, although I expect that some come close. The fact is that, like any other animal, we have to kill and exploit other species to survive. And you can't love your neighbour as you love yourself of you'd give them half your money and resources. You can care about them to some extent, but there are limits, as we will find out if enough people have trouble finding enough to eat.

If some people manage to transcend biology, or at least those biological imperatives, then perhaps they can be more selfless but I'm not holding my breath.
Many of its claims, I expect. After over half a century, the memory is not super fresh.
Again, what is the 'it', which you are referring to here?
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Sy Borg
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Re: What are the Gods of man?

Post by Sy Borg »

Ecurb wrote: February 14th, 2021, 10:35 pm
Greta wrote: February 14th, 2021, 10:17 pm
I suppose I might have qualified as a Christian up to age nine, when I figured it wasn't true.
Since this thread is evolving into a poetry discussion, I'll quote Keats:

" Beauty is truth, truth beauty,—that is all
Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know."

So the question (possibly) is whether Christianity is beautiful. No doubt it is ugly, in many of its aspects. But is it beautiful? And if so, does that make it "true" (in some Keatsian way)?
Well, the cathedrals of Rome are beautiful. But, at this stage, modern Christians - at least those who make their voices heard - appear to be more political than spiritual. Ditto all of the Abrahamic religions. At their heart - before they became hard right wing apologists, extremists and enthusiastic haters of the poor and vulnerable - Abrahamic religions aimed to achieve transcendent states via the emotions. By contrast, the East approached the situation in a more cerebral manner, working on techniques that work. Fine, whatever works for the individual.

Ultimately, though, religion per se appears to have blinded people to the grandeur of the Earth, Sun and nature generally, that modern religion's intense anthropocentrism has become hostile to the beauty of nature, aside from a shallow, sentimental attachment. There will be exceptions, but I do not see religions showing interest in preserving the beauty of the planet, rather they have sided with cashed-up right wing parties that favour fossil fuels over renewable energy. So it goes.

I think the Earth and ecosystems are beautiful, albeit it is a savage beauty. Humans certainly still display the old animal savagery, but our aesthetics are rapidly diminishing, as suggested by Tegularius above. Consider how the sophistication and beauty of jazz-related music up to the 70s was so popular that Chick Corea's Return to Forever played major concerts with large audiences. Now such large scale events tend to be reserved for "sexy" song 'n dance shows performed by young hunks and spunks, accompanied by recorded music.

Let's consider how remarkable the Earth is. People forget that we are part of the planet, not at all separate. Thus, what we do is what the planet is doing (amongst many other things). Here's my poetic offering, Carl Sagan's famous pale blue dot speech:

Image
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilisation, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there--on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.

The Earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that, in glory and triumph, they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot. Think of the endless cruelties visited by the inhabitants of one corner of this pixel on the scarcely distinguishable inhabitants of some other corner, how frequent their misunderstandings, how eager they are to kill one another, how fervent their hatreds.

Our posturings, our imagined self-importance, the delusion that we have some privileged position in the Universe, are challenged by this point of pale light. Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity, in all this vastness, there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves.

The Earth is the only world known so far to harbour life. There is nowhere else, at least in the near future, to which our species could migrate. Visit, yes. Settle, not yet. Like it or not, for the moment the Earth is where we make our stand.

It has been said that astronomy is a humbling and character-building experience. There is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world. To me, it underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly with one another, and to preserve and cherish the pale blue dot, the only home we've ever known.

— Carl Sagan, Pale Blue Dot, 1994
Ecurb
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Re: What are the Gods of man?

Post by Ecurb »

Tegularius wrote: February 14th, 2021, 11:07 pm Does poetry mean anything at all anymore? Whether acknowledged great or inferior it means nothing to most people. The long sequence of centuries when poetry was considered one of the enduring arts as much philosophy as verbal art has deteriorated into the least important art of all. It was most often poetry which described the gods best which is perhaps one reason why poetry is no-longer required or appreciated. The semi-mystical religious feeling for god and nature no-longer finds a home in the modern psyche. The inspiration which created it is now defunct.
Poetry has become an arcane art, unintelligible to those uninitiated in its secrets (including poetry lovers like me and you). I'm not sure why. Perhaps the universal availability of recorded music has diminished the love of lyric poetry, read aloud. Perhaps near-universal literacy has diminished the need for rhymes which improve the memory and the ability to repeat and memorize poems. Perhaps (as you say) the need for and appreciation of the mystical has vanished.

I'll grant that I know little of the poetry of the last 50 years; I think that most poetry and literature lovers could say the same.
Ecurb
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Re: What are the Gods of man?

Post by Ecurb »

Greta wrote: February 15th, 2021, 1:50 am
Well, the cathedrals of Rome are beautiful. But, at this stage, modern Christians - at least those who make their voices heard - appear to be more political than spiritual. Ditto all of the Abrahamic religions. At their heart - before they became hard right wing apologists, extremists and enthusiastic haters of the poor and vulnerable - Abrahamic religions aimed to achieve transcendent states via the emotions. By contrast, the East approached the situation in a more cerebral manner, working on techniques that work. Fine, whatever works for the individual.

Ultimately, though, religion per se appears to have blinded people to the grandeur of the Earth, Sun and nature generally, that modern religion's intense anthropocentrism has become hostile to the beauty of nature, aside from a shallow, sentimental attachment. There will be exceptions, but I do not see religions showing interest in preserving the beauty of the planet, rather they have sided with cashed-up right wing parties that favour fossil fuels over renewable energy. So it goes.

I think the Earth and ecosystems are beautiful, albeit it is a savage beauty. Humans certainly still display the old animal savagery, but our aesthetics are rapidly diminishing, as suggested by Tegularius above. Consider how the sophistication and beauty of jazz-related music up to the 70s was so popular that Chick Corea's Return to Forever played major concerts with large audiences. Now such large scale events tend to be reserved for "sexy" song 'n dance shows performed by young hunks and spunks, accompanied by recorded music.

Let's consider how remarkable the Earth is. People forget that we are part of the planet, not at all separate. Thus, what we do is what the planet is doing (amongst many other things). Here's my poetic offering, Carl Sagan's famous pale blue dot speech:

It's unfair to tar "modern Christians" as being "blinded... to the grandeur of the Earth." The political, Fundamentalist wings of Christianity still represent a minority of Christians. In general, Christians revere the Earth as God's creation.

Psalm 8 explores this notion:
O Lord, our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth! who hast set thy glory above the heavens.....

When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained;

What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?
Catholic priest Gerard Manly Hopkins chimes in with this:
The world is charged with the grandeur of God.
It will flame out, like shining from shook foil;
It gathers to a greatness, like the ooze of oil
Crushed. Why do men then now not reck his rod?
Generations have trod, have trod, have trod;
And all is seared with trade; bleared, smeared with toil;
And wears man's smudge and shares man's smell: the soil
Is bare now, nor can foot feel, being shod.

And for all this, nature is never spent;
There lives the dearest freshness deep down things;
And though the last lights off the black West went
Oh, morning, at the brown brink eastward, springs —
Because the Holy Ghost over the bent
World broods with warm breast and with ah! bright wings.
And God asks Job:
Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
Sagan's appreciation of the Earth is a nice sentiment, but it isn't great poetry. Here's Archibald MacLiesh's take on the same subject, written when man landed on the moon:
VOYAGE TO THE MOON

Presence among us,
wanderer in the skies,

dazzle of silver in our leaves and on our
waters silver,

O

silver evasion in our farthest thought–
“the visiting moon” . . . “the glimpses of the moon” . . .

and we have touched you!

From the first of time,
before the first of time, before the
first men tasted time, we thought of you.
You were a wonder to us, unattainable,
a longing past the reach of longing,
a light beyond our light, our lives–perhaps
a meaning to us…

Now

our hands have touched you in your depth of night.

Three days and three nights we journeyed,
steered by farthest stars, climbed outward,
crossed the invisible tide-rip where the floating dust
falls one way or the other in the void between,
followed that other down, encountered
cold, faced death–unfathomable emptiness . . .

Then, the fourth day evening, we descended,
made fast, set foot at dawn upon your beaches,
sifted between our fingers your cold sand.

We stand here in the dusk, the cold, the silence . . .

and here, as at the first of time, we lift our heads.
Over us, more beautiful than the moon, a
moon, a wonder to us, unattainable,
a longing past the reach of longing,
a light beyond our light, our lives–perhaps
a meaning to us . . .

O, a meaning!

over us on these silent beaches the bright earth,

presence among us.
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Sy Borg
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Re: What are the Gods of man?

Post by Sy Borg »

Ecurb wrote: February 15th, 2021, 11:50 am
Greta wrote: February 15th, 2021, 1:50 am
Well, the cathedrals of Rome are beautiful. But, at this stage, modern Christians - at least those who make their voices heard - appear to be more political than spiritual. Ditto all of the Abrahamic religions. At their heart - before they became hard right wing apologists, extremists and enthusiastic haters of the poor and vulnerable - Abrahamic religions aimed to achieve transcendent states via the emotions. By contrast, the East approached the situation in a more cerebral manner, working on techniques that work. Fine, whatever works for the individual.

Ultimately, though, religion per se appears to have blinded people to the grandeur of the Earth, Sun and nature generally, that modern religion's intense anthropocentrism has become hostile to the beauty of nature, aside from a shallow, sentimental attachment. There will be exceptions, but I do not see religions showing interest in preserving the beauty of the planet, rather they have sided with cashed-up right wing parties that favour fossil fuels over renewable energy. So it goes.

I think the Earth and ecosystems are beautiful, albeit it is a savage beauty. Humans certainly still display the old animal savagery, but our aesthetics are rapidly diminishing, as suggested by Tegularius above. Consider how the sophistication and beauty of jazz-related music up to the 70s was so popular that Chick Corea's Return to Forever played major concerts with large audiences. Now such large scale events tend to be reserved for "sexy" song 'n dance shows performed by young hunks and spunks, accompanied by recorded music.

Let's consider how remarkable the Earth is. People forget that we are part of the planet, not at all separate. Thus, what we do is what the planet is doing (amongst many other things). Here's my poetic offering, Carl Sagan's famous pale blue dot speech:

It's unfair to tar "modern Christians" as being "blinded... to the grandeur of the Earth." The political, Fundamentalist wings of Christianity still represent a minority of Christians. In general, Christians revere the Earth as God's creation.
Nope, it's more than fair - it's a call to accountability that is long overdue.

Times have changed. Christians do not revere nature at all, not today (though no doubt a cowed and invisible minority exists in their ranks, too afraid to speak out). Christians, for the most part, see ecosystems and other animals as nothing more than resources for "divine" humans.

Part of this is due to the natural Christian antipathy for science because the latter kept exposing falsehoods in the ancient doctrine.

Today, the vast majority of Christians are vehemently[/i against any political party that aims to reduce the rush of extinctions and destruction of ecosystems. This is indisputable. How often in the last four years have you heard Christians speaking out publicly to protest against extinctions and to protect ecosystems? How many speak out on those issues? I haven't heard of any. Contrast this silence with their noisy enthusiasm for demonising gay people or young women seeking abortions.

Christians have had numerous chances to show how much that they "revere the Earth", and they have failed to do so every single time, and over a period spanning many decades. This is not just the case in the US but in all western countries.

If I seem especially miffed about this, I am. If Christians actually cared about other species and ecosystems that would be a huge boost for the beleaguered natural world - it would be a tipping point that would ensure action. But they will not help. It's too much fun kicking LGBTIQ people.
Ecurb
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Re: What are the Gods of man?

Post by Ecurb »

Greta wrote: February 15th, 2021, 4:26 pm

Nope, it's more than fair - it's a call to accountability that is long overdue.

Times have changed. Christians do not revere nature at all, not today (though no doubt a cowed and invisible minority exists in their ranks, too afraid to speak out). Christians, for the most part, see ecosystems and other animals as nothing more than resources for "divine" humans.

Part of this is due to the natural Christian antipathy for science because the latter kept exposing falsehoods in the ancient doctrine.

Today, the vast majority of Christians are vehemently against any political party that aims to reduce the rush of extinctions and destruction of ecosystems. This is indisputable. How often in the last four years have you heard Christians speaking out publicly to protest against extinctions and to protect ecosystems? How many speak out on those issues? I haven't heard of any. Contrast this silence with their noisy enthusiasm for demonising gay people or young women seeking abortions.

Christians have had numerous chances to show how much that they "revere the Earth", and they have failed to do so every single time, and over a period spanning many decades. This is not just the case in the US but in all western countries.

If I seem especially miffed about this, I am. If Christians actually cared about other species and ecosystems that would be a huge boost for the beleaguered natural world - it would be a tipping point that would ensure action. But they will not help. It's too much fun kicking LGBTIQ people.
Malarky! The pope -- who leads the Christian Church with by far the most members -- issued an environmental enyclical five years ago, calling environmental degradation "sinful". In his encyclical he wrote (among other things) that Christians "must forcibly reject the notion that our being created in God's image and given domination over the earth justifies absolute domination over other creatures." Here's a Washington Post article about his encyclical: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/act ... vironment/

Let's not assume that the Evangelical and Fundamentlist wings of the Christian movement represent the entire movement, or, indeed, that they march in lock step on environmental issues. The New Atheists like Dawkins, Harris and Hitchens love aiming at the easy Christian targets, but there are plenty of intelligent, educated Christians who are not so easily hit. It is probably true (I don't know the stats) that well-educated Westerners tend to be atheistic, and also tend to be more aware of environmental issues. But if we were to study the opinions of well-educated Christians vs. well-educated atheists, or poorly educated Christians vs. poorly educated atheists I'm not sure what distinctions we would find. I'll grant that religion is fundamentally conservative -- truths are eternal, man has fallen from Eden, etc. But environmentalism is fundamentally conservative, too. We environmentalists want to conserve nature.
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Re: What are the Gods of man?

Post by Tegularius »

Consider poet license as justification for the appropriate use of the usual four-letter word which by now exists in every English dictionary.

A timely verdict on the true state of man...

This Be The Verse
By Philip Larkin


They f*** you up, your mum and dad.
They may not mean to, but they do.
They fill you with the faults they had
And add some extra, just for you.

But they were **** up in their turn
By fools in old-style hats and coats,
Who half the time were soppy-stern
And half at one another’s throats.

Man hands on misery to man.
It deepens like a coastal shelf.
Get out as early as you can,
And don’t have any kids yourself.

Philip Larkin, "This Be the Verse" from Collected Poems.
The earth has a skin and that skin has diseases; one of its diseases is called man ... Nietzsche
Ecurb
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Re: What are the Gods of man?

Post by Ecurb »

Larkin was a superb poet. But the Christian world view might take issue with this poem, as shall I. On Christmas, Jesus was born to save us from our sins and grant us eternal life (acc. the Christian myth).

One reason the myth has resonated through the centuries is that all parents know that our own children save us from our sins and grant us eternal life. The "eternal life" is genetic and cultural. We are saved from our sins through love, which comes naturally to a parent.

So if you would be saved from your sins and granted eternal life, be fruitful and multiply (OK, Greta, I'll grant it's bad for the environment).
Tegularius
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Re: What are the Gods of man?

Post by Tegularius »

Ecurb wrote: February 15th, 2021, 7:49 pm Larkin was a superb poet. But the Christian world view might take issue with this poem, as shall I. On Christmas, Jesus was born to save us from our sins and grant us eternal life (acc. the Christian myth).

One reason the myth has resonated through the centuries is that all parents know that our own children save us from our sins and grant us eternal life. The "eternal life" is genetic and cultural. We are saved from our sins through love, which comes naturally to a parent.

So if you would be saved from your sins and granted eternal life, be fruitful and multiply (OK, Greta, I'll grant it's bad for the environment).
The problem with this story is that you're just as dead in spite of having children as you would be without children. Not least and not so very long ago children were an economic commodity, but now they're a liability. Another "not least" clause is that most children born recently, now or near future are likely to go through a considerable amount of misery as climate change creates desperation both environmentally and politically. I wonder how many then would be thanking their parents for the chance of being born. If the unborn could speak they'd probably be sincere in saying thanks for nothing!

When you say "So if you would be saved from your sins and granted eternal life, be fruitful and multiply", not sure whether there isn't a tinge of sarcasm here since the more of us there are the more sins are going to accumulate. Is there any age we stopped sinning? :?
The earth has a skin and that skin has diseases; one of its diseases is called man ... Nietzsche
Ecurb
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Re: What are the Gods of man?

Post by Ecurb »

Tegularius wrote: February 15th, 2021, 8:54 pm

The problem with this story is that you're just as dead in spite of having children as you would be without children. Not least and not so very long ago children were an economic commodity, but now they're a liability. Another "not least" clause is that most children born recently, now or near future are likely to go through a considerable amount of misery as climate change creates desperation both environmentally and politically. I wonder how many then would be thanking their parents for the chance of being born. If the unborn could speak they'd probably be sincere in saying thanks for nothing!

When you say "So if you would be saved from your sins and granted eternal life, be fruitful and multiply", not sure whether there isn't a tinge of sarcasm here since the more of us there are the more sins are going to accumulate. Is there any age we stopped sinning? :?
I don't understand why people think that modern life is so horrible. Our ancestors went through a fair amount of misery when half of their children didn't live to age 5, when people sickened and died with alarming regularity, and when poverty was far more rampant than it is now, or is likely to be in the near future. None of this absolves us from concern about climate change, but let's be reasonable about the stress-free times (comparatively) in which we live.

Children may be an economic liability, but who cares, since we are all rich, these days.

"There is none righteous, no, not one," said St. Paul. But our sins can be forgiven through (you guessed it!) love. That's the Christian view, and one need not be a Christian to think it a good one. When I die, my son and my grandsons will pass on my genes, my culture, and (I hope) my love. Saints (Orwell wrote in "Reflections on Gandhi") are required to love everyone equally. The closest most of us can get to "Love your Neighbor" is loving those to whom we have closer ties.
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April 2023

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are
by Alan Watts
May 2023

Killing Abel

Killing Abel
by Michael Tieman
June 2023

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead
by E. Alan Fleischauer
July 2023

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough
by Mark Unger
August 2023

Predictably Irrational

Predictably Irrational
by Dan Ariely
September 2023

Artwords

Artwords
by Beatriz M. Robles
November 2023

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope
by Dr. Randy Ross
December 2023

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes
by Ali Master
February 2024

2022 Philosophy Books of the Month

Emotional Intelligence At Work

Emotional Intelligence At Work
by Richard M Contino & Penelope J Holt
January 2022

Free Will, Do You Have It?

Free Will, Do You Have It?
by Albertus Kral
February 2022

My Enemy in Vietnam

My Enemy in Vietnam
by Billy Springer
March 2022

2X2 on the Ark

2X2 on the Ark
by Mary J Giuffra, PhD
April 2022

The Maestro Monologue

The Maestro Monologue
by Rob White
May 2022

What Makes America Great

What Makes America Great
by Bob Dowell
June 2022

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!
by Jerry Durr
July 2022

Living in Color

Living in Color
by Mike Murphy
August 2022 (tentative)

The Not So Great American Novel

The Not So Great American Novel
by James E Doucette
September 2022

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches
by John N. (Jake) Ferris
October 2022

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All
by Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
November 2022

The Smartest Person in the Room: The Root Cause and New Solution for Cybersecurity

The Smartest Person in the Room
by Christian Espinosa
December 2022

2021 Philosophy Books of the Month

The Biblical Clock: The Untold Secrets Linking the Universe and Humanity with God's Plan

The Biblical Clock
by Daniel Friedmann
March 2021

Wilderness Cry: A Scientific and Philosophical Approach to Understanding God and the Universe

Wilderness Cry
by Dr. Hilary L Hunt M.D.
April 2021

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute: Tools To Spark Your Dream And Ignite Your Follow-Through

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute
by Jeff Meyer
May 2021

Surviving the Business of Healthcare: Knowledge is Power

Surviving the Business of Healthcare
by Barbara Galutia Regis M.S. PA-C
June 2021

Winning the War on Cancer: The Epic Journey Towards a Natural Cure

Winning the War on Cancer
by Sylvie Beljanski
July 2021

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream
by Dr Frank L Douglas
August 2021

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts
by Mark L. Wdowiak
September 2021

The Preppers Medical Handbook

The Preppers Medical Handbook
by Dr. William W Forgey M.D.
October 2021

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress: A Practical Guide

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress
by Dr. Gustavo Kinrys, MD
November 2021

Dream For Peace: An Ambassador Memoir

Dream For Peace
by Dr. Ghoulem Berrah
December 2021