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Re: Creationism is the best philosophy

Posted: October 12th, 2018, 6:50 am
by Syamsu
Burning ghost wrote:
October 12th, 2018, 6:42 am
I gather understand where I am coming from? People see “Creationism” and think one thing because it has a specific meaning in biological evolution.
And so you can apply creationism to devise a theory on how organisms were chosen to be the way they are.

Re: Creationism is the best philosophy

Posted: October 12th, 2018, 6:52 am
by Eduk
And so you can apply creationism to devise a theory on how organisms were chosen to be the way they are.
No you can't.

Re: Creationism is the best philosophy

Posted: October 12th, 2018, 6:52 am
by Karpel Tunnel
Burning ghost wrote:
October 12th, 2018, 5:19 am
Mosesquine wrote:
October 12th, 2018, 4:48 am
Creationism is the most believed stupid ******** idea by most stupid ******** boneheads.
The stupidiest thing about what Syamsu is saying here is nothing to do with what you think he is saying. I’ve told him before it’s both disingenuous and naive to expect people to understand “creationism” beyond the Christian context ... yet he persists with his poor use of words and does little more than repulse people from his ideas in a purposeful way.

I can only assume he gets some kind of perverse pleasure from fooling people in this manner more than he would from a meaningful discussion - I do the same from time to time as do others, yet Syamsu does nothign other than this sadly.
Ah, I wondered about that. Though even extending Creationism to a more abstract open category still, it seems to me, is not enough to eliminate the confusions of the OP.

Re: Creationism is the best philosophy

Posted: October 12th, 2018, 6:53 am
by Syamsu
Steve3007 wrote:
October 12th, 2018, 6:48 am
Burning ghost wrote:I know. I remember. I was hoping Syamsu had been able to express his ideas differently since then and could perhaps articulate his thoughts differently, and/or refine his previious attempts.
I admire your optimism, but the chance of that appears to me to be, essentially, zero. I am one of many posters who have, in the distant past, had long, long fruitless discussions with Syamsu. I've found that no matter what you say he will always just tell you the same standard line: that you are treating matters of opinion as matters of fact. I have discovered in the past that he will tell you that you're doing that even if you repeat his own words back to him in a slightly different form.

This is the great irony of Syamsu. He is, in terms of what he says and how he says it, one of the most deterministic posters on this site.
You people, and people in general, simply hate subjectivity. Hate the fragility of confidence based on emotion in expressing a subjective opinion, and prefer the feeling of factual certitude.

Re: Creationism is the best philosophy

Posted: October 12th, 2018, 6:54 am
by Karpel Tunnel
Syamsu wrote:
October 12th, 2018, 5:34 am
Karpel Tunnel wrote:
October 12th, 2018, 4:32 am
One can explain beauty via Materialism.
If one were to explain beauty on materialist terms, then one would assign beauty material attributes, and the existence of material attributes would be fact, so then materialism would still not validate opinion.
Well, that might be one way to do it. But I would, were I a materialist, do it through relations and causation inside organisms that appreciate beauty. Causal chains causing qualia.

Re: Creationism is the best philosophy

Posted: October 12th, 2018, 6:55 am
by Burning ghost
From the OP:
The best thing ofcourse is to accept the validity of both fact and opinion, each in their own right.
Yes, but this isn’t some new philosophical principle called “creationism”.

Do hou understand what “validity” means. For the sake of argument I assume you do.

My opinion of you is valid even if false. That I have an opinion is a fact.

“Validity” has nothing to do with “right” or “wrong” directly. We’re using logic here so we’re talking about what is proven, correct and cogent, not what is actually “true”.

If you say “creationism” is the best philosophy, even though “Creationism” refers to the denial of biological evolutionary theory - which can only be taken on by denying reason itself.

Re: Creationism is the best philosophy

Posted: October 12th, 2018, 6:55 am
by Eduk
You people,
Did you spit as you said that?

Re: Creationism is the best philosophy

Posted: October 12th, 2018, 6:55 am
by Karpel Tunnel
Syamsu wrote:
October 12th, 2018, 6:24 am
Burning ghost wrote:
October 12th, 2018, 6:19 am
Syamsu -

Go ahead and define “Creationism” then as a philosophical principle please.
The general structure of a creation theory, without specifics as to who created what when, which are variables.
Well, then it could be a materialist creation/creator.

Re: Creationism is the best philosophy

Posted: October 12th, 2018, 6:56 am
by Syamsu
Eduk wrote:
October 12th, 2018, 6:52 am
And so you can apply creationism to devise a theory on how organisms were chosen to be the way they are.
No you can't.
I can, why can't you?

Re: Creationism is the best philosophy

Posted: October 12th, 2018, 6:56 am
by Karpel Tunnel
Syamsu wrote:
October 12th, 2018, 6:50 am
Burning ghost wrote:
October 12th, 2018, 6:42 am
I gather understand where I am coming from? People see “Creationism” and think one thing because it has a specific meaning in biological evolution.
And so you can apply creationism to devise a theory on how organisms were chosen to be the way they are.
You could presume, for the sake of speculation...
but you can't 'apply' creationism.

Re: Creationism is the best philosophy

Posted: October 12th, 2018, 6:57 am
by Syamsu
Karpel Tunnel wrote:
October 12th, 2018, 6:55 am
Syamsu wrote:
October 12th, 2018, 6:24 am
The general structure of a creation theory, without specifics as to who created what when, which are variables.
Well, then it could be a materialist creation/creator.
No it could not be, the logic of choice does not function when making the agency of a choice a definite factual material thing.

Re: Creationism is the best philosophy

Posted: October 12th, 2018, 6:58 am
by Karpel Tunnel
Syamsu wrote:
October 12th, 2018, 6:53 am
You people, and people in general, simply hate subjectivity. Hate the fragility of confidence based on emotion in expressing a subjective opinion, and prefer the feeling of factual certitude.
So, your confidence is fragile?

Re: Creationism is the best philosophy

Posted: October 12th, 2018, 7:00 am
by Syamsu
Karpel Tunnel wrote:
October 12th, 2018, 6:56 am
but you can't 'apply' creationism.
You can apply creationism in art apreciation, you can apply it to make theory on how organisms are chosen to be the way they are. As creation is fundamental the use is ubiquitous.

Re: Creationism is the best philosophy

Posted: October 12th, 2018, 7:01 am
by Steve3007
Eduk wrote:
Syamsu wrote:You people,
Did you spit as you said that?
:lol:

Re: Creationism is the best philosophy

Posted: October 12th, 2018, 7:02 am
by Burning ghost
Eduk wrote:
October 12th, 2018, 6:52 am
And so you can apply creationism to devise a theory on how organisms were chosen to be the way they are.
No you can't.
You can if you can read past his misuse of common terms. He means nothing more than “causality” which is, ironically, the founding principle of evolutoinary biology yet he chooses to label this idea “Creationism”.

Syamsu -

Present a better OP and PM to me. I’ll post it, butnot with some nonsense title about “Creationism” because you’ll get absolutely nowhere fast trying to deny that a table is a table and/or calling a table a mango. I’m not taking the mick here, just trying my dam hardest to point out the confusion you’re causing by applying the term “Creationism” to what you’re saying - hence the spate of posts from others wrangling at you (that is evidence enough to give validity to my reasons for locking topic.

I just need you to take a step back, rethink the terminology you’re using, and then make a new post (I will lock this thread then and provide links between them - please PM me when you’ve made a new thread)

Note: if you post something with “Creationism” in the title I’ll simply delete the thread and remake it with a title of my choice.