chewybrian wrote:Logic does not give truth.
Logic gives us "logical truths".
chewybrian wrote:And, logic is only useful for argument if your opponent assents to the cornerstone premise. If you believe A, and A implies B, and B implies C, then C must be true. Nothing that follows matters if you deny A.
chewybrian wrote:Logical impossibilities are also contingent on the truth of the inputs (the opinion of such truth held by the person assenting to it, or not).
Most logical impossibilities are simple contradictions that take the form of X = ~X. For example "married bachelors" -- married men = non-married men" is a direct and obvious contradiction (X = ~X).
I agree with you that this is again, contingent on the agreed upon meanings of the terms.
chewybrian wrote:If you come to me with an "A" that is a load of you know what in my mind, like telling me that people can not think, then the logic that follows won't impress. Or, if your conclusion is such nonsense, then I must assume that your initial premise, or some step along the way, is faulty.
If there is a faulty premise, then the conclusion is not sound. But if the premise(s) are true, and the syllogism (math) is valid, then the conclusion is sound and therefore "logically true", regardless of one's dislike for the conclusion. -- And "dislike" does NOT mean "not-true".
chewybrian wrote:It's nice that you want to escape our real, messy universe of unknowns.
No offense chewy (at least no more offense than you show me), -- to the contrary, it is more likely that you do not want to escape your fantasy (santa claus) world, so as to avoid seeing reality as it truly is.
Chewy, these kinds of comments (yours and
mine) here are totally unnecessary
. These do NOTHING to further the discussion. Moving forward, I hope you (and I) can refrain from such insults, as these only highlight our 'inability' to effectively argue; and make our respective cases. Thank you.
chewybrian wrote:Choose a different doorway, and I might go with you. But, you wish to tell me that my very essence is not just in doubt, but rather can not exist...
Are you here at this forum seeking truth, or comfort?
chewybrian wrote:My thoughts don't randomly pop up…
So can you know your thoughts before they pop up into your awareness? We would all like to believe that we are the masters (the scripters/authors) of our thoughts, but this is simply not the case. Firstly, it is not even experientially detectable, and secondly, it is not even logically possible. I've already shown the logical proof (and can present it again if you wish).
We can't possibly know our thoughts before we know them. Logically, every single thought (and experience!) that we are conscious/knowing of has ALREADY BEEN SCRIPTED for us. Every thought and experience has 'content
'. Without this already scripted 'content
', there would be 'nothing' to know of, 'nothing' to be conscious of; 'nothing' to experience.
If EVERYTHING that we are conscious/knowing of has ALREADY been scripted, then there is NOTHING LEFT for us to consciously/knowingly script. ...so now, where do we go from here? Do we then cast stones at the person that made us aware of this truth, or do we suck it up and go on with life, but being a bit wiser.
As I said in earlier posting:
RJG wrote:Although we all seemingly accept logic as our pathway to truth ("true knowledge"), most of us do so 'only' up to a certain point. For example, as in this case of the logical impossibility of "conscious causation", most of us are psychologically unable to accept a logical truth that inevitably strips ourself of power and purpose, for fear that such an existence may not be worthy of existence. The rejection of this logic is very understandable and reasonable.
But if one's innate curiosity for truth is greater than their innate fear of existential unworthiness, then the 'acceptance' of this otherwise rejected logical truth may then be possible. When confronted with a "Danger Ahead" sign on one's path to truth, only those whose curiosity for truth is greater than their fear for safety/security, will continue on past this fearful point. Most others, will denounce this point in the pathway, and turn back around and down the previous comforting pathway, ...a very normal and expected reaction.
But for those that bravely step past this "Danger Ahead" sign (danger point), there is no need or reason to be discouraged or disillusioned of losing a power that we never had. Life's experiences, good and bad, continue nonetheless. Enjoy the good, and endure the bad. At first 'acceptance', this piece of true knowledge (logical truth) wreaks havoc on our emotions, moods, and purpose of being, much like coming off an addicting drug. But after some time, after the initial acceptance, this new piece of true knowledge yields a contentful and better understanding of reality. We feel we are no longer living in a false reality, but now we are a bit wiser, and the experiences of life, good and bad, continue nonetheless. What we've gained is a better understanding of the actions of others and ourselves. The bad guys no longer appear truly bad and deserving of punishment, and the good guys no longer appear truly good and deserving of praise. We are who we are, and we experience what we experience, ...and life is still good, (...and existence is still worthy!)