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Can man become civilised

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GE Morton
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Re: Can man become civilised

Post by GE Morton » January 5th, 2019, 11:09 pm

Belindi wrote:
January 5th, 2019, 8:31 am

As for conflating 'civilisation' with 'urbanisation' : the need for families to get together for communal agricultural and technological efforts and defence caused civilisation but not what we commonly call urbanisation.
Yes, it did. "Civilization" is derived from the Latin civitas, for "city." A civilization is a society characterized by cities --- a "city" being a community so large that most of its residents don't know most of the others. I.e., they are societies of strangers.

The development of agriculture spurred two huge changes in human societies. It forced abandonment of the nomadic hunter-gatherer lifestyle; crops required attending throughout the year, and thus permanent settlements. And because (when successful) it produced a surplus of food, some workers were freed to develop other skills, pursue other arts and crafts, and later, establish trade with other settlements, which drew more strangers to the community.

At least, that's the standard story.

Belindi
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Re: Can man become civilised

Post by Belindi » January 6th, 2019, 7:26 pm

I've never been in America however all I have heard about North America makes me believe that individualism (as contrasted with clinging to old tribal traditions) is very much accepted and lauded not only in Hollywood myth but among present day Americans and Canadians. I 'd say that special societies like the Amish are the exceptions that prove the rule.

I'll concede about 'civilisation' and 'urbanisation'. It probably doesn't matter very much which word is used, and I note the OP's definition.

eyesofastranger
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Re: Can man become civilised

Post by eyesofastranger » January 22nd, 2019, 8:03 am

As much as we look at natural selection and have pride in our techno civilized world. It's just that much crap. We still live by the very same laws of natural selection and tribal instinct formed on the African plains. I do personally believe in some tampering, yes, ancient astronaut theory. Before you check my closet for tinfoil hats read the religion thread. Every human discourse of greed desire and prejudice are remnants of the tribal animal. The difference in our society of laws is that instead of the brutality, the game is now about money and power. I'm open to the possibility that the bottleneck that appears in our genome could have been engineered. With no proof of course, I find it difficult to believe the modern man could be beaten back to about 30 individuals by a simple ice age.
Before posting on topic, this is my understanding of the human animal.
So what has to happen? First and most important free energy. Zero point, cold fusion, element 115 or a complete renewable infrastructure. Not only do we have the ability to do one of them maybe 2 of them are possible. Maybe our ancient visitors hinted at it or it was the word of god. Apocalypse is the opening of Pandora's box.
What would start the last great war against slavery? The singularity. I don't envision a war against the machines. I envision the machines opening our eyes. How far away is multiple qubit quantum computing?
I had to be very vague and limited to bullet points or 100s of pages would result.
This is how I would answer the question.

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Mark1955
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Re: Can man become civilised

Post by Mark1955 » January 24th, 2019, 12:26 pm

Belindi wrote:
January 6th, 2019, 7:26 pm
I've never been in America however all I have heard about North America makes me believe that individualism (as contrasted with clinging to old tribal traditions) is very much accepted and lauded not only in Hollywood myth but among present day Americans and Canadians. I'd say that special societies like the Amish are the exceptions that prove the rule.
So if we assume that some form of development with an equivalence to industrial melanism has occurred in North America and a society of strangers has evolved where individualism, effectively the acceptance that strangers don't matter, has become the dominant behaviour trait is this the way forward for us in the old world to copy or not. In other words is this the best way to run a civilisation and what are the alternatives.
To clarify I'm simplifying the question I know there are plenty of people and social systems in North America where strangers do matter
If you think you know the answer you probably don't understand the question.

Belindi
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Re: Can man become civilised

Post by Belindi » January 24th, 2019, 6:31 pm

Mark1955 wrote:
January 24th, 2019, 12:26 pm
Belindi wrote:
January 6th, 2019, 7:26 pm
I've never been in America however all I have heard about North America makes me believe that individualism (as contrasted with clinging to old tribal traditions) is very much accepted and lauded not only in Hollywood myth but among present day Americans and Canadians. I'd say that special societies like the Amish are the exceptions that prove the rule.
So if we assume that some form of development with an equivalence to industrial melanism has occurred in North America and a society of strangers has evolved where individualism, effectively the acceptance that strangers don't matter, has become the dominant behaviour trait is this the way forward for us in the old world to copy or not. In other words is this the best way to run a civilisation and what are the alternatives.
To clarify I'm simplifying the question I know there are plenty of people and social systems in North America where strangers do matter
An individualist is more likely to accept strangers to the community.

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