The March Philosophy Book of the Month is Final Notice by Van Fleisher. Discuss Final Notice now.

The April Philosophy Book of the Month is The Unbound Soul by Richard L. Haight. Discuss The Unbound Soul Now

The May Philosophy Book of the Month is Misreading Judas by Robert Wahler.

How would God know He/She was reborn?

Use this philosophy forum to discuss and debate general philosophy topics that don't fit into one of the other categories.

This forum is NOT for factual, informational or scientific questions about philosophy (e.g. "What year was Socrates born?"); such homework-help-style questions can be asked and answered on PhiloPedia: The Philosophy Wiki. If your question is not already answered on the appropriate PhiloPedia page, then see How to Request Content on PhiloPedia to see how to ask your informational question using the wiki.
User avatar
h_k_s
Posts: 569
Joined: November 25th, 2018, 12:09 pm
Favorite Philosopher: Aristotle
Location: Rocky Mountains

Re: How would God know He/She was reborn?

Post by h_k_s » May 18th, 2019, 11:22 am

Newme wrote:
May 17th, 2019, 5:32 pm
Alias wrote:
May 15th, 2019, 11:15 pm

Can? You? Parse? Your? Sentence?
Hi Alias!
I’ll give it a shot. After all, IMO, spiritual intelligence is significantly empathy & emotional intelligence.

God is a 3-letter word that represents eternal (beyond time) energy & matter.

The philosophically esteemed, honorary L Frank Baum, brilliantly depicted 3 elements of this higher GOoD, as symbolized by the brain (intelligent design), heart (“the kingdom of God is within you”) and courage (will expressed as love). If you contemplate this within your noggin, you will find some sense in there. ;)
"Spiritual intelligence" is not philosophy.

Probably not intelligence either.

It is mysticism; superstition; make-believe.

You may believe whatever you like, however at some point in your lives you will arrive at a point where your make-believe has cheated you.

Alias
Posts: 2710
Joined: November 26th, 2011, 8:10 pm
Favorite Philosopher: Terry Pratchett

Re: How would God know He/She was reborn?

Post by Alias » May 18th, 2019, 7:43 pm

h_k_s wrote:
May 18th, 2019, 11:18 am
Aquinas had said almost everything you need to read about the Philosophy-God.
I wasn't asking him.
Prior to Aquinas, Aristotle himself
himself!!! huh
imagined a group of Gods based on the numerous stars in the night sky that he could see
imagined stuff when he looked at stars!!! how original
So if you want to study God then study Aquinas.
I wasn't asking for anybody's imaginings about god/s. I was asking you the meaning, if any, of one single sentence that you wrote.
Don't ask me to regurgitate him for you.
I wouldn't dream of asking you to regurgitate any more of anything.

User avatar
Felix
Posts: 2752
Joined: February 9th, 2009, 5:45 am

Re: How would God know He/She was reborn?

Post by Felix » May 18th, 2019, 8:01 pm

h_k_s, "Spiritual intelligence" is not philosophy.

Well then, Aquinas, who you say, "said almost everything you need to read about the Philosophy-God," is not a philosopher, since many of his assertions were based on Catholic doctrine rather than on rational arguments (which had been made previously by Aristotle, however his speculations about the Unmoved Mover led to some odd conclusions about the nature of celestial objects, etc.).

Bertrand Russell remarked that all of Aquinas' proofs of the existence of God, except for one about the teleology of lifeless things (which is doctrinaire), depend upon the supposed impossibility of series having no first term, but every mathematician knows this is not impossible.
"We do not see things as they are; we see things as we are." - Anaïs Nin

User avatar
h_k_s
Posts: 569
Joined: November 25th, 2018, 12:09 pm
Favorite Philosopher: Aristotle
Location: Rocky Mountains

Re: How would God know He/She was reborn?

Post by h_k_s » May 19th, 2019, 3:13 pm

Felix wrote:
May 18th, 2019, 8:01 pm
h_k_s, "Spiritual intelligence" is not philosophy.

Well then, Aquinas, who you say, "said almost everything you need to read about the Philosophy-God," is not a philosopher, since many of his assertions were based on Catholic doctrine rather than on rational arguments (which had been made previously by Aristotle, however his speculations about the Unmoved Mover led to some odd conclusions about the nature of celestial objects, etc.).

Bertrand Russell remarked that all of Aquinas' proofs of the existence of God, except for one about the teleology of lifeless things (which is doctrinaire), depend upon the supposed impossibility of series having no first term, but every mathematician knows this is not impossible.
Russell's greatest weakness was his bias for atheism.

WW1 made him an atheist.

This was his extreme reaction to the disaster and waste of that war.

It is why he does not respect Aquinas, who was the greatest thinker of all time on the "problem of God", as Prof. Roger Scruton would call it.

User avatar
Felix
Posts: 2752
Joined: February 9th, 2009, 5:45 am

Re: How would God know He/She was reborn?

Post by Felix » May 19th, 2019, 5:03 pm

h_k_s: "It (Russell's atheism) is why he does not respect Aquinas, who was the greatest thinker of all time on the "problem of God", as Prof. Roger Scruton would call it."

No, Russell's lack of respect for Aquinas stems from the fact that when Aquinas has no rational argument for a proposition, he'll fall back on scripture to support it, i.e., "this statement is true because the Bible says so," whereas Russell respects the Socratic philosophers because they were not reluctant to follow an argument wherever it may lead.

However re: Russell's comment that mathematical analysis discredits the necessity of a First Cause, it seems weak to me, for math deals with abstractions rather than manifest forms, and abstractions can afford to be directionless.
"We do not see things as they are; we see things as we are." - Anaïs Nin

Alias
Posts: 2710
Joined: November 26th, 2011, 8:10 pm
Favorite Philosopher: Terry Pratchett

Re: How would God know He/She was reborn?

Post by Alias » May 19th, 2019, 6:51 pm

It's important to take into account that Russell was in no danger from the Inquisition.

User avatar
Felix
Posts: 2752
Joined: February 9th, 2009, 5:45 am

Re: How would God know He/She was reborn?

Post by Felix » May 20th, 2019, 6:37 pm

Aquinas'es proofs for the existence of God are an elaboration of Aristotle's arguments, required no appeal to Catholic authority, and therefore were in little or no danger of being deemed heretical.
"We do not see things as they are; we see things as we are." - Anaïs Nin

Alias
Posts: 2710
Joined: November 26th, 2011, 8:10 pm
Favorite Philosopher: Terry Pratchett

Re: How would God know He/She was reborn?

Post by Alias » May 21st, 2019, 11:03 pm

Felix wrote:
May 20th, 2019, 6:37 pm
Aquinas'es proofs for the existence of God are an elaboration of Aristotle's arguments, required no appeal to Catholic authority, and therefore were in little or no danger of being deemed heretical.
Clever Tom!

User avatar
Newme
Posts: 1240
Joined: December 13th, 2011, 1:21 am

Re: How would God know He/She was reborn?

Post by Newme » May 23rd, 2019, 3:29 pm

h_k_s wrote:
May 18th, 2019, 11:20 am
The Aristotelean concept of God is also consistent with Modern British Empiricism -- that God is immersed in Himself/Herself/Itself.

You can read about that in Roger Scruton's book "Modern Philosophy" -- a good buy and a great read.
Looks like an interesting read.

What do you mean by “God is immersed in him/her self”?

One way or the other, people like Aristotle and to a lesser degree, Aquinas, have helped shape beliefs.
  • Aristotle:
    “Knowing yourself is the beginning of all wisdom.

    God has many names, though He is only one Being.

    “It was through the feeling of wonder that men now and at first began to philosophize.


    • Aquinas:
      “To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary. To one without faith, no explanation is possible.

      The things that we love tell us what we are.

      Most men seem to live according to sense rather than reason.

      There must be must be a first mover existing above all – and this we call God” (Sounds like Aristotle.)
“Empty is the argument of the philosopher which does not relieve any human suffering.” - Epicurus

User avatar
Newme
Posts: 1240
Joined: December 13th, 2011, 1:21 am

Re: How would God know He/She was reborn?

Post by Newme » May 23rd, 2019, 3:32 pm

h_k_s wrote:
May 18th, 2019, 11:22 am
Newme wrote:
May 17th, 2019, 5:32 pm

Hi Alias!
I’ll give it a shot. After all, IMO, spiritual intelligence is significantly empathy & emotional intelligence.

God is a 3-letter word that represents eternal (beyond time) energy & matter.

The philosophically esteemed, honorary L Frank Baum, brilliantly depicted 3 elements of this higher GOoD, as symbolized by the brain (intelligent design), heart (“the kingdom of God is within you”) and courage (will expressed as love). If you contemplate this within your noggin, you will find some sense in there. ;)
"Spiritual intelligence" is not philosophy.

Probably not intelligence either.

It is mysticism; superstition; make-believe.

You may believe whatever you like, however at some point in your lives you will arrive at a point where your make-believe has cheated you.
Who doesn’t have subjective - “make-believe” thoughts? Who is 100% objective and who’s to determine it? Nobody.

Pretending your thoughts are NOT subjective is cheating yourself from the chance to have some conscious choice in the matter (aka spiritual intelligence).
“Empty is the argument of the philosopher which does not relieve any human suffering.” - Epicurus

User avatar
Newme
Posts: 1240
Joined: December 13th, 2011, 1:21 am

Re: How would God know He/She was reborn?

Post by Newme » May 23rd, 2019, 3:43 pm

Alias wrote:
May 17th, 2019, 7:49 pm
Newme wrote:
May 17th, 2019, 5:32 pm
The philosophically esteemed, honorary L Frank Baum, brilliantly depicted 3 elements of this higher GOoD, as symbolized by the brain (intelligent design), heart (“the kingdom of God is within you”) and courage (will expressed as love). If you contemplate this within your noggin, you will find some sense in there. ;)
This, yes, within its limited and somewhat disingenuous context. I have no problem with the various epicyclic permutations of the god concept.

The entity-giving-entity to fill a creative void - still no. Point being, I'm pretty sure neither does h_k_s, who thought gobbledygook was an acceptable substitute for philosophical rigour.
Question for all:
Of the 800+ definitions or attributes of God in the bible, which do you give merit and which do you not? Or is this too much to ask?

https://christiananswers.net/dictionary/namesofgod.html
“Empty is the argument of the philosopher which does not relieve any human suffering.” - Epicurus

User avatar
h_k_s
Posts: 569
Joined: November 25th, 2018, 12:09 pm
Favorite Philosopher: Aristotle
Location: Rocky Mountains

Re: How would God know He/She was reborn?

Post by h_k_s » May 23rd, 2019, 4:11 pm

Newme wrote:
May 23rd, 2019, 3:32 pm
h_k_s wrote:
May 18th, 2019, 11:22 am


"Spiritual intelligence" is not philosophy.

Probably not intelligence either.

It is mysticism; superstition; make-believe.

You may believe whatever you like, however at some point in your lives you will arrive at a point where your make-believe has cheated you.
Who doesn’t have subjective - “make-believe” thoughts? Who is 100% objective and who’s to determine it? Nobody.

Pretending your thoughts are NOT subjective is cheating yourself from the chance to have some conscious choice in the matter (aka spiritual intelligence).
Are you talking about a-priori or a-posteriori?

A-priori is self evident.

A-posteriori is deduced.

Or are you talking about hypothesis? Hypotheses are pre-testing speculations.

Hypothetical situations are a form of make-believe, until you test them, either in the philosophical sense of a thought-experiment or with real physical experimentation.

Which are you referring to when you say "make believe"?

User avatar
h_k_s
Posts: 569
Joined: November 25th, 2018, 12:09 pm
Favorite Philosopher: Aristotle
Location: Rocky Mountains

Re: How would God know He/She was reborn?

Post by h_k_s » May 23rd, 2019, 4:13 pm

Newme wrote:
May 23rd, 2019, 3:29 pm
h_k_s wrote:
May 18th, 2019, 11:20 am
The Aristotelean concept of God is also consistent with Modern British Empiricism -- that God is immersed in Himself/Herself/Itself.

You can read about that in Roger Scruton's book "Modern Philosophy" -- a good buy and a great read.
Looks like an interesting read.

What do you mean by “God is immersed in him/her self”?

One way or the other, people like Aristotle and to a lesser degree, Aquinas, have helped shape beliefs.
  • Aristotle:
    “Knowing yourself is the beginning of all wisdom.

    God has many names, though He is only one Being.

    “It was through the feeling of wonder that men now and at first began to philosophize.


    • Aquinas:
      “To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary. To one without faith, no explanation is possible.

      The things that we love tell us what we are.

      Most men seem to live according to sense rather than reason.

      There must be must be a first mover existing above all – and this we call God” (Sounds like Aristotle.)


Aristotle and Prof. Roger Scruton all talk about "God immersed in Him/Her/It-self."

Scruton put that into his book, but without giving credit to Aristotle.

Alias
Posts: 2710
Joined: November 26th, 2011, 8:10 pm
Favorite Philosopher: Terry Pratchett

Re: How would God know He/She was reborn?

Post by Alias » May 24th, 2019, 12:47 am

Newme wrote:
May 23rd, 2019, 3:43 pm
Question for all:
Of the 800+ definitions or attributes of God in the bible, which do you give merit and which do you not?
Merit? That would need a standard and a scale on which to rate it.
I quite like I YAM THAT I YAM ; it's pithy and in-your-face arrogant, though it doesn't meet the criteria of a definition.
Other than a requirement for syntactic coherence, it's difficult to judge any definition of something of which no credible description exists. I mean, if we want a definition of unicorn, we know what to look for: there's a consensus: equine, white, good conformation, Narwhal horn in middle of forehead, skittish. But - a burning bush? How big? Deciduous or coniferous? What sort of flame? How hot? Not terribly informative.
Or is this too much to ask?
Think so, yeah.

But why do you need one? People who report on a god have their own notion of what it is and they're not interested in anyone else's version.

User avatar
Newme
Posts: 1240
Joined: December 13th, 2011, 1:21 am

Re: How would God know He/She was reborn?

Post by Newme » June 13th, 2019, 7:48 am

Alias,
Why do we need to define what we’re debating? You are seriously asking me this?

Since you brought up - in your attempt at humor - “I AM THAT I AM” - it’s another way of stating what is also in the bible: “The kingdom of God is within you.” God is a subjective experience - that is a fundamental definition of God. How arrogant to pretend you know enough of all internal phenomena of all people - to dismiss it all.
“Empty is the argument of the philosopher which does not relieve any human suffering.” - Epicurus

Post Reply