How to stay socialized when you have no common interests with the society you live in?

[seek_philosophy]

Probably most of you experienced the difficulty of communicating with people who don't understand philosophy. I'll not try to define what is it to understand philosophy, since I don't consider myself an expert, but as not understanding philosophy I would consider the fact that one doesn't have the ability to talk about ideas, can't even a single moment forget about his/her self, is greatly influenced by culture, and doesn't even understand what culture is. Am I self-deceived in thinking that people are less intelligent just because they aren't able to talk about ideas?

A more painful question - how to deal with friends (especially with ones, who are very dear) with whom one met before delving into philosophy and had a lot in common, but then found himself alienated? Is there a reason to try to keep such communications with all the frustration it brings? How to communicate when all the time they talk about individuals (neighbors, colleagues...), rather than about ideas? How to communicate when you can't afford yourself to express a single philosophical thought and be understood? Having different opinions is fine, even necessary, but when one doesn't believe that his views about morality come from culture and doesn't bring any other justification for his views, for sure doesn't even know what morality is and where it emerged from, makes it impossible to debate about anything. I'm right! Why? Because!

Even worse is when the logic is different. When someone shows a fork and says that it's a spoon, because the earth is round, you cannot bring any fact to prove him wrong, because his predicate is right, the earth is round, and with his reasoning, that implies that knife is a spoon. If in such situations we still stop communicating, there really aren't many people left. Am I wrong?

I tried to find interest in what my old friends and people in my society do, but it's just smothering to hear 30 minute talk about how they bought an earphone, what color it was, how long the wire was, what was it's price, what other earphones were there, why exactly it had the best quality besides being ten times cheaper, why their choice stopped on that one... I'm not saying it's wrong or bad, it might be smothering only me, but what if nothing from what they talk interests you? Maybe there should be a philosophy/non-philosophy balance, and all-philosophy mode is the path to complete isolation from the society?

Deep inside, I always want to get rid of such communications, it's like a burden. I enjoy my own company, and don't seek communication, but it's still nice to find people with whom you can share your thoughts.

Has anybody found himself/herself in such situation? How to stay socialized, when you have nothing in common with the society you live in? It's a question which does't seem to have an answer, but I cannot believe that loving philosophy implies not being social. But, maybe, loving only philosophy means?

[Sy Borg]

Thanks for the topic. Most pertinent for online philosophy forums. You are far from alone in this. I am in your situation and I have not remained socialised. I'm now a senior citizen and so my sustained failure in socialising will probably render any advice I may offer in this area completely useless :)

Look at the people out there. Just look at them. Look at them with George Carlin's eye. What they do. What they say. What they believe. What are you missing by not socialising with them?

Are these people you really want to spend time with? Do you feel that you "should" socialise? Might that result in seeing people as potential befriending objects to improve your status, self-esteem and heart health (https://www.cartia.com.au/get-up-get-ou ... cialising/)? Really, humans are intrinsically not nice. We can occasionally be extremely nice but for the most part we only look out for our own - and treat outsider cultures and/or species like dirt.

Yet if we are nice then we will be controlled and exploited by others. Used and abused. The world is now ruled by Xi, Putin, Trump and the Kochs. This now is our world. I do have confidence that humanity will mature and improve after whatever environmental cataclysm we're brewing has cleared half of us away, but until then humanity appears to be in full "entropy mode".

By contrast, dogs are so much nicer. It's ironic that we demand that they be kept "safe" on leads when they have been genetically designed to be nicer than people. Humans are far more troublesome than dogs and a force to be reckoned with. We are much more powerful than we realise, with a tremendous ability to exert mental pressure on those around us. All these minds applied to others to get them to do their bidding. That is how humans became "humanity" - that overpowering force of nature - by hassling others to work harder (or generally do your bidding). This is effective behaviour, but not pleasant.

Meanwhile dogs just hang out, no attitude. Give them the feeds, walks, shelter and cuddles they need and they are fine. Then again, they don't have to compete with humans. I accept that humans

Sorry I could only offer rationalisations, but your post did resonate.

[MAYA EL]

I have slowly become outcast from the world over time the more I meditate and find my inner understanding the more I seem to "not fit" in tr he world. People don't seem to be "real people" but more like a program running in a robot. Being in a line of work where I have to interact with people daily and have to try to really connect with them too I cant help but notice how 95% of them don't think and i mean really ponder about life they just go to work and like what they're told to like and work a 9 to 5 every day like a robot and be completely ok with it. And if you try to get them to be in the "now" and break out of the box they can't. Matter of fact most have no clue what I'm even talking about and get stressed and try to do something that doesn't require thinking because "it makes me tired " they say. And that sounds like a side effect of brain washing to me .
Sorry I cant help but at least you know your not alone.

[LuckyR]

I have slowly become outcast from the world over time the more I meditate and find my inner understanding the more I seem to "not fit" in tr he world. People don't seem to be "real people" but more like a program running in a robot. Being in a line of work where I have to interact with people daily and have to try to really connect with them too I cant help but notice how 95% of them don't think and i mean really ponder about life they just go to work and like what they're told to like and work a 9 to 5 every day like a robot and be completely ok with it. And if you try to get them to be in the "now" and break out of the box they can't. Matter of fact most have no clue what I'm even talking about and get stressed and try to do something that doesn't require thinking because "it makes me tired " they say. And that sounds like a side effect of brain washing to me .
Sorry I cant help but at least you know your not alone.

Well, if 5% of folks are similar to yourself, that is a huge number of potential friends and acquaintances. Most folks' group of social contacts is way less than 1% of the people they meet.

[Sculptor1]

I have slowly become outcast from the world over time the more I meditate and find my inner understanding the more I seem to "not fit" in tr he world. People don't seem to be "real people" but more like a program running in a robot. Being in a line of work where I have to interact with people daily and have to try to really connect with them too I cant help but notice how 95% of them don't think and i mean really ponder about life they just go to work and like what they're told to like and work a 9 to 5 every day like a robot and be completely ok with it. And if you try to get them to be in the "now" and break out of the box they can't. Matter of fact most have no clue what I'm even talking about and get stressed and try to do something that doesn't require thinking because "it makes me tired " they say. And that sounds like a side effect of brain washing to me .
Sorry I cant help but at least you know your not alone.

Well, if 5% of folks are similar to yourself, that is a huge number of potential friends and acquaintances. Most folks' group of social contacts is way less than 1% of the people they meet.

Groucho Marx used to say that he'd never want to be part of any club that would accept him as a member.

People who are a social do not make great group members

[Sculptor1]

ERROR:

NOT; " a social"

I meant to type; "asocial"

[h_k_s]

Probably most of you experienced the difficulty of communicating with people who don't understand philosophy. I'll not try to define what is it to understand philosophy, since I don't consider myself an expert, but as not understanding philosophy I would consider the fact that one doesn't have the ability to talk about ideas, can't even a single moment forget about his/her self, is greatly influenced by culture, and doesn't even understand what culture is. Am I self-deceived in thinking that people are less intelligent just because they aren't able to talk about ideas?

A more painful question - how to deal with friends (especially with ones, who are very dear) with whom one met before delving into philosophy and had a lot in common, but then found himself alienated? Is there a reason to try to keep such communications with all the frustration it brings? How to communicate when all the time they talk about individuals (neighbors, colleagues...), rather than about ideas? How to communicate when you can't afford yourself to express a single philosophical thought and be understood? Having different opinions is fine, even necessary, but when one doesn't believe that his views about morality come from culture and doesn't bring any other justification for his views, for sure doesn't even know what morality is and where it emerged from, makes it impossible to debate about anything. I'm right! Why? Because!

Even worse is when the logic is different. When someone shows a fork and says that it's a spoon, because the earth is round, you cannot bring any fact to prove him wrong, because his predicate is right, the earth is round, and with his reasoning, that implies that knife is a spoon. If in such situations we still stop communicating, there really aren't many people left. Am I wrong?

I tried to find interest in what my old friends and people in my society do, but it's just smothering to hear 30 minute talk about how they bought an earphone, what color it was, how long the wire was, what was it's price, what other earphones were there, why exactly it had the best quality besides being ten times cheaper, why their choice stopped on that one... I'm not saying it's wrong or bad, it might be smothering only me, but what if nothing from what they talk interests you? Maybe there should be a philosophy/non-philosophy balance, and all-philosophy mode is the path to complete isolation from the society?

Deep inside, I always want to get rid of such communications, it's like a burden. I enjoy my own company, and don't seek communication, but it's still nice to find people with whom you can share your thoughts.

Has anybody found himself/herself in such situation? How to stay socialized, when you have nothing in common with the society you live in? It's a question which does't seem to have an answer, but I cannot believe that loving philosophy implies not being social. But, maybe, loving only philosophy means?

I find myself gravitating to others who are philosophers.

You can usually find them here and there.

[LuckyR]

Well, if 5% of folks are similar to yourself, that is a huge number of potential friends and acquaintances. Most folks' group of social contacts is way less than 1% of the people they meet.

Groucho Marx used to say that he'd never want to be part of any club that would accept him as a member.

People who are a social do not make great group members

Sort of depends on whether the person in question is voluntarily isolated or thinks it is a problem. If one chooses to be asocial/isolated, good for you, carry on. If OTOH they are posting a problem they would like solved, I posted a solution.

[Sy Borg]

Groucho Marx used to say that he'd never want to be part of any club that would accept him as a member.

People who are a social do not make great group members

Sort of depends on whether the person in question is voluntarily isolated or thinks it is a problem. If one chooses to be asocial/isolated, good for you, carry on. If OTOH they are posting a problem they would like solved, I posted a solution.

Not so simple. It is difficult for the popular and socially adept to dismiss the concerns of the asocial as trivial and foolish.

However, if you are an oddity - a one or two-percenter - finding your "tribe" is not even as close to as straightforward as you make it appear, as if the world consisted of rational actors. If you were right, then loneliness would not even be a concept, it would have never existed as a concept.

[LuckyR]

Sort of depends on whether the person in question is voluntarily isolated or thinks it is a problem. If one chooses to be asocial/isolated, good for you, carry on. If OTOH they are posting a problem they would like solved, I posted a solution.

Not so simple. It is difficult for the popular and socially adept to dismiss the concerns of the asocial as trivial and foolish.

However, if you are an oddity - a one or two-percenter - finding your "tribe" is not even as close to as straightforward as you make it appear, as if the world consisted of rational actors. If you were right, then loneliness would not even be a concept, it would have never existed as a concept.

I was using the observations of an asocial, if they are inaccurate I won't/can't disagree. But one lesson of the interweb era is that even if no one you personally know has your opinion or outlook, tiny splinter groups of all stripes (and I mean ALL stripes) exist in relatively large numbers online.

1% & 2% can seem small, if your catchment area is a classroom of 30, or even a school of 500. But modern virtual groups can easily number in the tens of millions, minimum.

[Jules]

Greta&others

I´m sorry, really sorry, but I don´t think THIS is a way any "philosopher" should approach his fellow humans:

Look at the people out there. Just look at them. Look at them with George Carlin's eye. What they do. What they say. What they believe. What are you missing by not socialising with them?

I´m really sorry, I do understand the topic of this debate, and I do see it as crucial, plues, I agree on philosophy´s alientating effect.

THOUGH: Please apply some more knowledge. WHY are those "people out there" not there where we are?

ISn´t it possibly a very priviliged position from which you´re judging them? I believe "those people out there" actually, due to quite difficult economic circumstances were not able to sit down and read philosophy.

The very last thing one that calls him or herself a philospher ought to do is looking down on others that didn´t study philosophy, as philosophy in itself is a discipline that urges us to apply a WIDER perspective. How would we dare to forget who we are, which position we´re talking from and how this position is constructed in itself??!!

Instead of looking down on others, we shall read the narratives of other fellow humans in a philophical way, learn from those discourses surrounding us, deconstruct them, and PLEASE be conscious of the absolute privilige of us being educated in philosophy. I know it´s rather challenging, but we should definitely not end up seeing ourselves mentally "superior" to others. It´s not that our minds are better, it´s that our pockets do have more cash.
Looking forward to some more fellow-human-friendly approach. Cause if humanity is not being cared for in philosophy, I dare say WHICH discipline shall better afront and prepare those future challenges the human kind has to go through?
I don´t believe this is being done at any possible rate with this type of attitude.

Have a good day.

[Sy Borg]

Jules, indeed, we fail philosophically when we judge harshly, and I keep that spirit in mind as I accept your harsh judgement of myself and others here.

[MAYA EL]

Greta&others

I´m sorry, really sorry, but I don´t think THIS is a way any "philosopher" should approach his fellow humans:

Look at the people out there. Just look at them. Look at them with George Carlin's eye. What they do. What they say. What they believe. What are you missing by not socialising with them?

I´m really sorry, I do understand the topic of this debate, and I do see it as crucial, plues, I agree on philosophy´s alientating effect.

THOUGH: Please apply some more knowledge. WHY are those "people out there" not there where we are?

ISn´t it possibly a very priviliged position from which you´re judging them? I believe "those people out there" actually, due to quite difficult economic circumstances were not able to sit down and read philosophy.

The very last thing one that calls him or herself a philospher ought to do is looking down on others that didn´t study philosophy, as philosophy in itself is a discipline that urges us to apply a WIDER perspective. How would we dare to forget who we are, which position we´re talking from and how this position is constructed in itself??!!

Instead of looking down on others, we shall read the narratives of other fellow humans in a philophical way, learn from those discourses surrounding us, deconstruct them, and PLEASE be conscious of the absolute privilige of us being educated in philosophy. I know it´s rather challenging, but we should definitely not end up seeing ourselves mentally "superior" to others. It´s not that our minds are better, it´s that our pockets do have more cash.
Looking forward to some more fellow-human-friendly approach. Cause if humanity is not being cared for in philosophy, I dare say WHICH discipline shall better afront and prepare those future challenges the human kind has to go through?
I don´t believe this is being done at any possible rate with this type of attitude.

Have a good day.

I do not think that lack of income or opportunity has hardly anything to do with the perceived "situation " of society becoming robotic zombies for lack of a better term.
The love of wisdom will make a way regardless of the tools at one's disposal . Yes money and family can make it much easier to obtain top notch philosophy literature but if the dirt is not tilled and watered and ready then no amount of seed tossed or planted will ever take root and grow .

[MAYA EL]

I have slowly become outcast from the world over time the more I meditate and find my inner understanding the more I seem to "not fit" in tr he world. People don't seem to be "real people" but more like a program running in a robot. Being in a line of work where I have to interact with people daily and have to try to really connect with them too I cant help but notice how 95% of them don't think and i mean really ponder about life they just go to work and like what they're told to like and work a 9 to 5 every day like a robot and be completely ok with it. And if you try to get them to be in the "now" and break out of the box they can't. Matter of fact most have no clue what I'm even talking about and get stressed and try to do something that doesn't require thinking because "it makes me tired " they say. And that sounds like a side effect of brain washing to me .
Sorry I cant help but at least you know your not alone.

Well, if 5% of folks are similar to yourself, that is a huge number of potential friends and acquaintances. Most folks' group of social contacts is way less than 1% of the people they meet.

I'm not sure if you take me literally when I make my reference to the "95%" because it was conversational jargon and not a true scientific statistic .

With what you say about the ease of social group finding even at 1% thanks to the internet these days
I will have to adjust my guess from 5% to about 0.000000001% of people seem to view life the way I seem to because even with the invention of the internet I have yet to find a group that I can say I agree with confidently

[Hereandnow]

Jules
Instead of looking down on others, we shall read the narratives of other fellow humans in a philophical way, learn from those discourses surrounding us, deconstruct them, and PLEASE be conscious of the absolute privilige of us being educated in philosophy. I know it´s rather challenging, but we should definitely not end up seeing ourselves mentally "superior" to others. It´s not that our minds are better, it´s that our pockets do have more cash.

I don't think, Jules, it's so much a matter of feeling superior or how we interpret our fellow human beings. And learning from the discourses around us is part of the problem: philosophy does not step up to be accommodating with what is "around us". The whole of continental philosophy tears one away from such discourses, and to learn "from" them would be to inquire about them critically. Nobody is interested in critical theory. They want people to tell them how right and good their world is, not how they all miss the mark. Philosophy is especially alienating. Any more so would constitute madness; indeed, philosophy is, at its best, a kind of madness. Who are you? What are you? And where? Philosophy removes contexts, and replaces them with questions.
And just say no to drugs and philosophy. Or is it yes.