Have you ever changed someone's mind about a controversial issue?

Use this philosophy forum to discuss and debate general philosophy topics that don't fit into one of the other categories.

This forum is NOT for factual, informational or scientific questions about philosophy (e.g. "What year was Socrates born?"). Those kind of questions can be asked in the off-topic section.
User avatar
frailRearranger
New Trial Member
Posts: 17
Joined: May 31st, 2019, 8:06 pm

Re: Have you ever changed someone's mind about a controversial issue?

Post by frailRearranger »

James Radcliffe wrote: July 8th, 2019, 1:42 am So, I guess my revised question is:

"Have you ever changed someone's mind THROUGH REASON (as opposed to interest), or had somebody change your mind through reason?"
I do not believe that we change one another's minds. Rather, we exchange information as material by which we each may change our own minds. Reason is for changing (or resisting change to) our own minds, not the minds of others. Furthermore, I don't believe that we should change our minds in the middle of a debate (short of dropping non-essential lines of argument), but should use the debate as a time to present our side as best we can and allow our opponent to do the same, examining them in comparison to one another. The debate is a collaborative examination of ideas, using contest to better display each side. It's after the debate is over that we sit down alone with what the debate has given us and contemplate how we shall or shall not change our own minds.

That said, I can provide you with an example of a friend coming to me and telling me that something I'd said to him years before had had an impact on him and he had changed his mind on the issue. Before, he hadn't believed in free will. It wasn't really a debate, I was just chatting with him about my disagreement with the argument, "If it turns out that all of your choices were actually made by a Martian, then in fact you never really had free will." I corrected the argument: "If it turns out that all of your choices were actually made by a Martian, then in fact you were always a Martian." He is now a compatibilist like myself.
User avatar
detail
Posts: 171
Joined: June 1st, 2019, 1:39 pm

Re: Have you ever changed someone's mind about a controversial issue?

Post by detail »

James Radcliffe wrote: July 4th, 2019, 8:27 pm I'm interested in hearing from anyone who has ever changed someone else's mind, or has had their mind changed by someone else, about a controversial issue--i.e. an issue that would be widely regarded as a matter of opinion, not of fact. Ideally, this would be an issue that the person who's mind was changed had already formed a strong opinion about before their mind was changed.

I would greatly appreciate any information that can be shared about this kind of experience.

Thank you in advance.❤️
Most of the people would rather prefer reading the bible and would claim that exodus 7:1 would do the job, but i don't really do approve this theory.
Others do think that an nlp treatment , with a brain computer interface supported technology would do the job, but i hate this vogon perspective.
But just ask teachers how to convince pupils to listen to their shool lessions , could this provide you with an approximation , how to convince somebody that something absolutely uninportant in their live, like: " lord wordsworth conquered this walnut and called it home of the humpty grunty people."
could be even some kind of job of teachers. These people like to convince you constantly of questions like that.
User avatar
dawwg
Posts: 74
Joined: July 30th, 2019, 5:33 am

Re: Have you ever changed someone's mind about a controversial issue?

Post by dawwg »

Here goes...I'm going to change someone's mind.

Can you see a pair of lovers in this painting?

Image

There's a couple making out in the middle of the floor.

She is wearing a white cap, has red hair, and you can see one of her green eyes.

He has blond hair that curls up to form the handle on the vase, and you can see one of his blue eyes. See it?
User avatar
Sy Borg
Site Admin
Posts: 14992
Joined: December 16th, 2013, 9:05 pm

Re: Have you ever changed someone's mind about a controversial issue?

Post by Sy Borg »

Dawg, after looking and looking, I'm thinking about your post in terms of the Rorschach test.

Does he have a blue, toothy grin?
User avatar
dawwg
Posts: 74
Joined: July 30th, 2019, 5:33 am

Re: Have you ever changed someone's mind about a controversial issue?

Post by dawwg »

Granted I couldn't change everyone's mind, but that does disqualify you from the "in" crowd.
User avatar
Greenham
New Trial Member
Posts: 3
Joined: August 30th, 2019, 1:41 pm

Re: Have you ever changed someone's mind about a controversial issue?

Post by Greenham »

Thomyum2 wrote: July 6th, 2019, 11:50 am I do agree that if you set out to change a person's mind about something on which they 'had already formed a strong opinion', then it's unlikely that you'll see much in the way of results, at least in the short run. But I have had experiences where I will share my thoughts or convictions about something and find that after a good deal of time, sometimes years later, I'll discover that those words have stayed with that person and that they have come to understand what I had said in a new way and led them to change their understanding over time. I guess that the converse has also been true, that I have listened to someone's point of view and their words have resonated with me and come back to me time and time again, and that I've found that though I may not have understood them at the time, their words have come to make sense in light of later experiences I've had in life.

I think it's a little like the old saying that 'you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink'. People have to make their own choices about what they think and believe. You can open a door for them and give them an opportunity they may not have known they have, but they'll only make the change when the time is right for them.
I've had such experiences too, and been on the other end of a few. I think your conclusion is accurate as well.

The blogger Scott Alexander has written an essay on this very thing, called Guided by the Beauty of Our Weapons, which is well worth a read. I think a lot of our problems these days with feeling that people are impenetrable to our logic and facts stem from the increasing atomization of our society and how so many of our interactions with people outside our bubbles are one-off. Alexander says that "the bare minimum conditions for a debate that could possibly be productive" consists of the following:
1. Debate where two people with opposing views are talking to each other (or writing, or IMing, or some form of bilateral communication). ...

2. Debate where both people want to be there, and have chosen to enter into the debate in the hopes of getting something productive out of it. ...

3. Debate conducted in the spirit of mutual respect and collaborative truth-seeking. ...

4. Debate conducted outside of a high-pressure point-scoring environment. ...

5. Debate where both people agree on what’s being debated and try to stick to the subject at hand. ...
He goes into more detail on what each of these points means in the essay, but I think that suffices to give a taste of what he's talking about.
Haicoway
Posts: 235
Joined: December 11th, 2014, 7:29 am

Re: Have you ever changed someone's mind about a controversial issue?

Post by Haicoway »

I read in a neuroscience book that there is some mechanism whereby the stronger one’s argument is the more firmly entrenched the opponent becomes in his or her belief about the bone of contention.

I have never changed anyone’s mind, except my wife’s. But I’ve had my opinion reversed many times. I think the reason I can change my mind is I realize the above mentioned phenomenon, and I learned, along with my wife, how not to have to be right.

I enjoy being wrong and having my opinion reversed. It makes me feel superior to other people in having that ability. I know it’s not fashionable to want to feel superior, but I also learned that humans definitely have egos, whether they wish they didn’t have them or not. And wanting to feel superior is a very common ego aspiration.
User avatar
LuckyR
Moderator
Posts: 7933
Joined: January 18th, 2015, 1:16 am

Re: Have you ever changed someone's mind about a controversial issue?

Post by LuckyR »

Haicoway wrote: October 4th, 2019, 9:31 am I read in a neuroscience book that there is some mechanism whereby the stronger one’s argument is the more firmly entrenched the opponent becomes in his or her belief about the bone of contention.

I have never changed anyone’s mind, except my wife’s. But I’ve had my opinion reversed many times. I think the reason I can change my mind is I realize the above mentioned phenomenon, and I learned, along with my wife, how not to have to be right.

I enjoy being wrong and having my opinion reversed. It makes me feel superior to other people in having that ability. I know it’s not fashionable to want to feel superior, but I also learned that humans definitely have egos, whether they wish they didn’t have them or not. And wanting to feel superior is a very common ego aspiration.
I don't disagree. Being "right" is a first order positive. That is, anyone can derive a good feeling from accomplishing it. Whereas being "open minded" is a second order positive, in that one has to have the ability to appreciate the benefit of furthering oneself, despite the simpleminded negative of admitting that one doesn't know everything at the outset.
"As usual... it depends."
User avatar
TheHedoMinimalist
New Trial Member
Posts: 9
Joined: October 21st, 2019, 1:29 am

Re: Have you ever changed someone's mind about a controversial issue?

Post by TheHedoMinimalist »

Haicoway wrote: October 4th, 2019, 9:31 am I read in a neuroscience book that there is some mechanism whereby the stronger one’s argument is the more firmly entrenched the opponent becomes in his or her belief about the bone of contention.

I have never changed anyone’s mind, except my wife’s. But I’ve had my opinion reversed many times. I think the reason I can change my mind is I realize the above mentioned phenomenon, and I learned, along with my wife, how not to have to be right.

I enjoy being wrong and having my opinion reversed. It makes me feel superior to other people in having that ability. I know it’s not fashionable to want to feel superior, but I also learned that humans definitely have egos, whether they wish they didn’t have them or not. And wanting to feel superior is a very common ego aspiration.
I find that the best way to change someone’s mind is to simply listen and ask good questions about their opinions. You also want to avoid pressuring the person you are speaking with to answer all the questions and I usually try to ask questions which makes me seem less like an interrogator and more like a student who wants to learn more. Of course, you are technically not persuading them. Rather, you are simply planting the seed for them to connect the dots themselves and to persuade themselves to abandon their views. Our opinions are usually changed from our own introspection. They are rarely changed by others. This is because people don’t like to be wrong in the presence of others but they are more willing to acknowledge their past wrongfulness through what they believe to be their own reasoning. If I recall correctly, there does seem to be some psychological literature to support this theory of persuasion. I certainly have learned about this method of persuasion from someone else.
Haicoway
Posts: 235
Joined: December 11th, 2014, 7:29 am

Re: Have you ever changed someone's mind about a controversial issue?

Post by Haicoway »

That is interesting and helpful. Why do you suppose almost everybody has to be right? Is it a survival mechanism?
User avatar
LuckyR
Moderator
Posts: 7933
Joined: January 18th, 2015, 1:16 am

Re: Have you ever changed someone's mind about a controversial issue?

Post by LuckyR »

Haicoway wrote: October 24th, 2019, 9:03 am That is interesting and helpful. Why do you suppose almost everybody has to be right? Is it a survival mechanism?
Folks don't need to be right as much as they can't appear to be wrong.
"As usual... it depends."
Haicoway
Posts: 235
Joined: December 11th, 2014, 7:29 am

Re: Have you ever changed someone's mind about a controversial issue?

Post by Haicoway »

I agree. People fight to avoid looking bad, stupid, and being dominated.
User avatar
Sy Borg
Site Admin
Posts: 14992
Joined: December 16th, 2013, 9:05 pm

Re: Have you ever changed someone's mind about a controversial issue?

Post by Sy Borg »

Or they try to counter what they see as potentially harmful information or misinformation. Ego need not come into it at all.
Haicoway
Posts: 235
Joined: December 11th, 2014, 7:29 am

Re: Have you ever changed someone's mind about a controversial issue?

Post by Haicoway »

Yes, without thinking much, I was focusing on people holding emotional matters of opinion, such as that Trump is wrong for the Presidency. I am currently mentoring a young African American girl who was raised in a ghetto with no exposure to café society, but she graduated from college with the highest honors. She asked me if I would teach her genteel manners to accompany her academic achievements toward a professional career. I was happy to because she is extraordinarily pretty and I’m a lecher of sorts.

She told me at dinner a couple of evenings ago that she believed that pharmaceutical companies had drugs to cure cancer but were keeping them under wraps so they could continue to sell less effective drugs for massive profit.

I told her that it wasn’t sophisticated to believe untrue conspiracy theories, and especially to express them. So I arranged a dinner with a PhD pharmacologist who has spent his entire career as an executive in pharmaceutical research to explain the reality to the girl with authority. And her mind shall be changed.
Steve3007
Posts: 10339
Joined: June 15th, 2011, 5:53 pm

Re: Have you ever changed someone's mind about a controversial issue?

Post by Steve3007 »

Henry Higgins meets Glenn Quagmire?
Post Reply

Return to “General Philosophy”

2023/2024 Philosophy Books of the Month

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise
by John K Danenbarger
January 2023

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul
by Mitzi Perdue
February 2023

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness
by Chet Shupe
March 2023

The Unfakeable Code®

The Unfakeable Code®
by Tony Jeton Selimi
April 2023

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are
by Alan Watts
May 2023

Killing Abel

Killing Abel
by Michael Tieman
June 2023

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead
by E. Alan Fleischauer
July 2023

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough
by Mark Unger
August 2023

Predictably Irrational

Predictably Irrational
by Dan Ariely
September 2023

Artwords

Artwords
by Beatriz M. Robles
November 2023

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope
by Dr. Randy Ross
December 2023

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes
by Ali Master
February 2024

2022 Philosophy Books of the Month

Emotional Intelligence At Work

Emotional Intelligence At Work
by Richard M Contino & Penelope J Holt
January 2022

Free Will, Do You Have It?

Free Will, Do You Have It?
by Albertus Kral
February 2022

My Enemy in Vietnam

My Enemy in Vietnam
by Billy Springer
March 2022

2X2 on the Ark

2X2 on the Ark
by Mary J Giuffra, PhD
April 2022

The Maestro Monologue

The Maestro Monologue
by Rob White
May 2022

What Makes America Great

What Makes America Great
by Bob Dowell
June 2022

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!
by Jerry Durr
July 2022

Living in Color

Living in Color
by Mike Murphy
August 2022 (tentative)

The Not So Great American Novel

The Not So Great American Novel
by James E Doucette
September 2022

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches
by John N. (Jake) Ferris
October 2022

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All
by Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
November 2022

The Smartest Person in the Room: The Root Cause and New Solution for Cybersecurity

The Smartest Person in the Room
by Christian Espinosa
December 2022

2021 Philosophy Books of the Month

The Biblical Clock: The Untold Secrets Linking the Universe and Humanity with God's Plan

The Biblical Clock
by Daniel Friedmann
March 2021

Wilderness Cry: A Scientific and Philosophical Approach to Understanding God and the Universe

Wilderness Cry
by Dr. Hilary L Hunt M.D.
April 2021

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute: Tools To Spark Your Dream And Ignite Your Follow-Through

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute
by Jeff Meyer
May 2021

Surviving the Business of Healthcare: Knowledge is Power

Surviving the Business of Healthcare
by Barbara Galutia Regis M.S. PA-C
June 2021

Winning the War on Cancer: The Epic Journey Towards a Natural Cure

Winning the War on Cancer
by Sylvie Beljanski
July 2021

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream
by Dr Frank L Douglas
August 2021

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts
by Mark L. Wdowiak
September 2021

The Preppers Medical Handbook

The Preppers Medical Handbook
by Dr. William W Forgey M.D.
October 2021

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress: A Practical Guide

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress
by Dr. Gustavo Kinrys, MD
November 2021

Dream For Peace: An Ambassador Memoir

Dream For Peace
by Dr. Ghoulem Berrah
December 2021