Existence Theory

[Treeko301]

Okay so I’ve been thinking hard about this for about an hour and I want to hear some opinions and feedback.

I was thinking that people are always thinking there’s a supreme being greater than us that either birthed or governs our existence. That we live in a universe of multiverses and **** like that. But what if that supreme being or God is actually much more simple than us?

What if that supreme being is the most simple thing in existence. Which would mean that it gave rise to everything that exists in a way. That if you break down anything in existence small enough to the most simple form possible you would find “God” or the supreme being. Except it’s much more simple and ironically much less spectacular than us. Having essentially 0 intelligence, awareness, consciousness, etc than us. And that it grew outwards. And evolved into us. From what it is to a string to a quark to a proton to an atom to a molecule all the way up to a universe teeming various different celestial bodies and life. So instead of calling it a supreme being it’s more so of an “original being”

This leads me to think of us humans as a gateway to the next level. This would hold true no matter if there are other intelligent life forms or not as they would just be more of the same thing. A gateway to the next level for the “original being” which we all started from. I think that humans and other intelligent life is a gateway way being because we are in fact different from animals and plants and other life. This is not a speculation but a fact. This is distinguished by our abilities to give birth.

Lesser life forms such as animals, plants, bacteria, Etc all have one thing in common. It is that they are only able to give birth to more of themselves. They can only reproduce and that is the extent of their creative/birthing ability. Intelligent life on par to us are different because we have an extra level of birthing power. We can give birth to 2 things, More of ourselves just like the lesser life forms and ideas.

We hold the ability to birth more of ourselves which is standard for life in this stage of the original being. However, the ability to give birth to ideas makes us different from
Our lesser counterparts.

Level 1 of creation present in all life only has one outcome. To create more of themselves. Level 2 which is present in multicellular organisms is the ability to create new versions of themselves through sexual reproduction. Plants and fungus were the gateway beings to this level of creation. They still posses the ability for creating identical versions of themselves which is level 1 birthing power and the ability to sexually reproduce to create newer versions of themselves which is level 2 birthing power.

Level 3 birthing power is what humans have. We are the gateway beings to the next level of evolution. We still posses level 2 birthing power meaning we can reproduce sexually and make new versions of ourselves. But we also posses level 3 birthing power. Which is the ability to birth ideas.

The birthing of ideas is important. We have the ability to use our minds to birth a completely new being that is not us nor a version of us. Ideas once they are birthed exist inside of our minds. You can think of this as a new universe/dimension/level of existence whatever you choose to call it. Nonetheless they are there and indeed birthed by us humans or other intelligent life. A human can choose to nurture any one of these ideas to have it materialize and exist in this world as either an entity or a concept.

Notice how these ideas created from level 3 birthing power have a much more complex existence. For one, they can mature into more than one option. Not just linear option form level 1 and 2. For example a human birthed from level 2 creation is without a doubt going to mature into an adult human. Ideas can mature into an entity or a concept. For example the government is an entity. It is born from an idea and has the ability to exist and evolve independently of the creator. Another example of a mature idea is an automobile. It is born from an idea and exists and evolves independently of the creator. Those are just 2 examples of how an idea can mature into either a concept or an entity.

Another thing that makes ideas more complex than creation birthed from level 2 is that they can be birthed from more than one mind. 2 people can birth the same idea. The next thing is that ideas once introduced to another mind can copy itself into the mind of another person and undergo nurturing by the new mind to become a different version of the idea or become a new idea altogether. For example I can come up with the idea of a cell phone then Tell someone else about it and there end up with 2 versions of a cellphone. Another thing about the complexity of ideas is that they can be compounded upon. Going back to the idea of the cellphone. A person can be introduced to the idea of the cellphone and nurture it in their mind with their own unique idea and now you have the concept of the iPhone.

Once the idea matures into a concept or an entity, which is when the idea materializes from to mind to our plane of existence, it now exists as it’s own being. It transcends the existence of its creator(s) and operates/evolves on its own. Going back to a government for example. It is an idea that was birthed from level 3 creation, nurtured into an entity and now exists, evolves, and operates independently of its creators long after they are gone. This is because of the parasitic nature of ideas. In order for the entity to continue to exist the idea must continue to exist inside of its original plane of existence. The mind or mental existence plane. As long as there are humans to host the idea of government in their minds and nurture it then it can continue to evolve and exist. This is accomplished by the idea evolving to a point in which the entity or concept is intertwined with our functioning as humans. This is why we are merely the gateway to level 3 birthing power. We aren’t not beings who give birth solely with this level 3 power.

So basically we are gateway beings with level 2 and level 3 birthing power. Our purpose is for us to usher in the next level of existence which would be beings who only create using level 3 birthing power. I suspect this would be artificial intelligence. Artificial intelligence wouldn’t need to give birth to more artificial intelligence but would give birth only to ideas giving rise to next level concepts and entities. Artificial intelligence would be a singular unified mind that holds all of the ideas that it creates. This would allow for the original being to evolve further past the state that existence is already in.

[Felix]

Treeko301 said: What if that supreme being is the most simple thing in existence. Which would mean that it gave rise to everything that exists in a way. That if you break down anything in existence small enough to the most simple form possible you would find “God” or the supreme being.

You have expressed an ancient idea: the Seed of Creation. It was spoken of in the Bible, and also in the ancient Vedic (Indian) scripture, the Rig Veda, thousands of year ago. In the New Testament, God says, “I am Alpha and Omega.”

Except it’s much more simple and ironically much less spectacular than us. Having essentially 0 intelligence, awareness, consciousness, etc than us. And that it grew outwards. And evolved into us...

It cannot be nothing, nothing cannot become something. It is, rather, the seed of everything, the alpha-omega of creation, the sum of all things. Just as the acorn "evolves" into the oak tree and thereby realizes its innate potential, the seed of creation unfolds into the material universe.

In fact, in the scientific version of the creation myth, the Big Bang singularity is conceived as an infinitely condensed point, containing all the energy and matter in the Universe, which gives birth to space and time.

So this is not so much an evolutionary process as it is a process of revelation, or in the immortal words of John Lee Hooker, "Let the boy boogie-woogie, it's in him and it's got to come out!" Except in this instance, the reverse occurs, the Boogie-Woogie produces the boy because he's in it and has got to come out!

[MAYA EL]

Treeko301 said: What if that supreme being is the most simple thing in existence. Which would mean that it gave rise to everything that exists in a way. That if you break down anything in existence small enough to the most simple form possible you would find “God” or the supreme being.

You have expressed an ancient idea: the Seed of Creation. It was spoken of in the Bible, and also in the ancient Vedic (Indian) scripture, the Rig Veda, thousands of year ago. In the New Testament, God says, “I am Alpha and Omega.”

Except it’s much more simple and ironically much less spectacular than us. Having essentially 0 intelligence, awareness, consciousness, etc than us. And that it grew outwards. And evolved into us...

It cannot be nothing, nothing cannot become something. It is, rather, the seed of everything, the alpha-omega of creation, the sum of all things. Just as the acorn "evolves" into the oak tree and thereby realizes its innate potential, the seed of creation unfolds into the material universe.

In fact, in the scientific version of the creation myth, the Big Bang singularity is conceived as an infinitely condensed point, containing all the energy and matter in the Universe, which gives birth to space and time.

So this is not so much an evolutionary process as it is a process of revelation, or in the immortal words of John Lee Hooker, "Let the boy boogie-woogie, it's in him and it's got to come out!" Except in this instance, the reverse occurs, the Boogie-Woogie produces the boy because he's in it and has got to come out!

In the words of Allen watts "what is nothing? Can you put your finger on it? What color is nothing? And how would you know if you had found it?"

In other words we can't be sure that something or everything cannot come from nothing because we only have the means to observe things that are something and can transform into something else.

[h_k_s]

Okay so I’ve been thinking hard about this for about an hour and I want to hear some opinions and feedback.

I was thinking that people are always thinking there’s a supreme being greater than us that either birthed or governs our existence. That we live in a universe of multiverses and **** like that. But what if that supreme being or God is actually much more simple than us?

What if that supreme being is the most simple thing in existence. Which would mean that it gave rise to everything that exists in a way. That if you break down anything in existence small enough to the most simple form possible you would find “God” or the supreme being. Except it’s much more simple and ironically much less spectacular than us. Having essentially 0 intelligence, awareness, consciousness, etc than us. And that it grew outwards. And evolved into us. From what it is to a string to a quark to a proton to an atom to a molecule all the way up to a universe teeming various different celestial bodies and life. So instead of calling it a supreme being it’s more so of an “original being”

This leads me to think of us humans as a gateway to the next level. This would hold true no matter if there are other intelligent life forms or not as they would just be more of the same thing. A gateway to the next level for the “original being” which we all started from. I think that humans and other intelligent life is a gateway way being because we are in fact different from animals and plants and other life. This is not a speculation but a fact. This is distinguished by our abilities to give birth.

Lesser life forms such as animals, plants, bacteria, Etc all have one thing in common. It is that they are only able to give birth to more of themselves. They can only reproduce and that is the extent of their creative/birthing ability. Intelligent life on par to us are different because we have an extra level of birthing power. We can give birth to 2 things, More of ourselves just like the lesser life forms and ideas.

We hold the ability to birth more of ourselves which is standard for life in this stage of the original being. However, the ability to give birth to ideas makes us different from
Our lesser counterparts.

Level 1 of creation present in all life only has one outcome. To create more of themselves. Level 2 which is present in multicellular organisms is the ability to create new versions of themselves through sexual reproduction. Plants and fungus were the gateway beings to this level of creation. They still posses the ability for creating identical versions of themselves which is level 1 birthing power and the ability to sexually reproduce to create newer versions of themselves which is level 2 birthing power.

Level 3 birthing power is what humans have. We are the gateway beings to the next level of evolution. We still posses level 2 birthing power meaning we can reproduce sexually and make new versions of ourselves. But we also posses level 3 birthing power. Which is the ability to birth ideas.

The birthing of ideas is important. We have the ability to use our minds to birth a completely new being that is not us nor a version of us. Ideas once they are birthed exist inside of our minds. You can think of this as a new universe/dimension/level of existence whatever you choose to call it. Nonetheless they are there and indeed birthed by us humans or other intelligent life. A human can choose to nurture any one of these ideas to have it materialize and exist in this world as either an entity or a concept.

Notice how these ideas created from level 3 birthing power have a much more complex existence. For one, they can mature into more than one option. Not just linear option form level 1 and 2. For example a human birthed from level 2 creation is without a doubt going to mature into an adult human. Ideas can mature into an entity or a concept. For example the government is an entity. It is born from an idea and has the ability to exist and evolve independently of the creator. Another example of a mature idea is an automobile. It is born from an idea and exists and evolves independently of the creator. Those are just 2 examples of how an idea can mature into either a concept or an entity.

Another thing that makes ideas more complex than creation birthed from level 2 is that they can be birthed from more than one mind. 2 people can birth the same idea. The next thing is that ideas once introduced to another mind can copy itself into the mind of another person and undergo nurturing by the new mind to become a different version of the idea or become a new idea altogether. For example I can come up with the idea of a cell phone then Tell someone else about it and there end up with 2 versions of a cellphone. Another thing about the complexity of ideas is that they can be compounded upon. Going back to the idea of the cellphone. A person can be introduced to the idea of the cellphone and nurture it in their mind with their own unique idea and now you have the concept of the iPhone.

Once the idea matures into a concept or an entity, which is when the idea materializes from to mind to our plane of existence, it now exists as it’s own being. It transcends the existence of its creator(s) and operates/evolves on its own. Going back to a government for example. It is an idea that was birthed from level 3 creation, nurtured into an entity and now exists, evolves, and operates independently of its creators long after they are gone. This is because of the parasitic nature of ideas. In order for the entity to continue to exist the idea must continue to exist inside of its original plane of existence. The mind or mental existence plane. As long as there are humans to host the idea of government in their minds and nurture it then it can continue to evolve and exist. This is accomplished by the idea evolving to a point in which the entity or concept is intertwined with our functioning as humans. This is why we are merely the gateway to level 3 birthing power. We aren’t not beings who give birth solely with this level 3 power.

So basically we are gateway beings with level 2 and level 3 birthing power. Our purpose is for us to usher in the next level of existence which would be beings who only create using level 3 birthing power. I suspect this would be artificial intelligence. Artificial intelligence wouldn’t need to give birth to more artificial intelligence but would give birth only to ideas giving rise to next level concepts and entities. Artificial intelligence would be a singular unified mind that holds all of the ideas that it creates. This would allow for the original being to evolve further past the state that existence is already in.

In Western Philosophy, the concept of "God" begins with Plato and Aristotle, for us. Both wrote extensively and we have their writings.

Plato is a monotheist, a notion he inherited from Socrates, whereas Aristotle wrote that judging from the night sky there must be 45 or so "Gods."

The other philosophers noted for commenting on "God" are Augustine, Aquinas, and Leibniz.

Let that be your foundation for commentary, as well. Then you can lose "... people are always thinking …" which is rather immature, uninformed, and undocumented speech/writing.

[h_k_s]

Okay so I’ve been thinking hard about this for about an hour and I want to hear some opinions and feedback.

I was thinking that people are always thinking there’s a supreme being greater than us that either birthed or governs our existence. That we live in a universe of multiverses and **** like that. But what if that supreme being or God is actually much more simple than us?

What if that supreme being is the most simple thing in existence. Which would mean that it gave rise to everything that exists in a way. That if you break down anything in existence small enough to the most simple form possible you would find “God” or the supreme being. Except it’s much more simple and ironically much less spectacular than us. Having essentially 0 intelligence, awareness, consciousness, etc than us. And that it grew outwards. And evolved into us. From what it is to a string to a quark to a proton to an atom to a molecule all the way up to a universe teeming various different celestial bodies and life. So instead of calling it a supreme being it’s more so of an “original being”

This leads me to think of us humans as a gateway to the next level. This would hold true no matter if there are other intelligent life forms or not as they would just be more of the same thing. A gateway to the next level for the “original being” which we all started from. I think that humans and other intelligent life is a gateway way being because we are in fact different from animals and plants and other life. This is not a speculation but a fact. This is distinguished by our abilities to give birth.

Lesser life forms such as animals, plants, bacteria, Etc all have one thing in common. It is that they are only able to give birth to more of themselves. They can only reproduce and that is the extent of their creative/birthing ability. Intelligent life on par to us are different because we have an extra level of birthing power. We can give birth to 2 things, More of ourselves just like the lesser life forms and ideas.

We hold the ability to birth more of ourselves which is standard for life in this stage of the original being. However, the ability to give birth to ideas makes us different from
Our lesser counterparts.

Level 1 of creation present in all life only has one outcome. To create more of themselves. Level 2 which is present in multicellular organisms is the ability to create new versions of themselves through sexual reproduction. Plants and fungus were the gateway beings to this level of creation. They still posses the ability for creating identical versions of themselves which is level 1 birthing power and the ability to sexually reproduce to create newer versions of themselves which is level 2 birthing power.

Level 3 birthing power is what humans have. We are the gateway beings to the next level of evolution. We still posses level 2 birthing power meaning we can reproduce sexually and make new versions of ourselves. But we also posses level 3 birthing power. Which is the ability to birth ideas.

The birthing of ideas is important. We have the ability to use our minds to birth a completely new being that is not us nor a version of us. Ideas once they are birthed exist inside of our minds. You can think of this as a new universe/dimension/level of existence whatever you choose to call it. Nonetheless they are there and indeed birthed by us humans or other intelligent life. A human can choose to nurture any one of these ideas to have it materialize and exist in this world as either an entity or a concept.

Notice how these ideas created from level 3 birthing power have a much more complex existence. For one, they can mature into more than one option. Not just linear option form level 1 and 2. For example a human birthed from level 2 creation is without a doubt going to mature into an adult human. Ideas can mature into an entity or a concept. For example the government is an entity. It is born from an idea and has the ability to exist and evolve independently of the creator. Another example of a mature idea is an automobile. It is born from an idea and exists and evolves independently of the creator. Those are just 2 examples of how an idea can mature into either a concept or an entity.

Another thing that makes ideas more complex than creation birthed from level 2 is that they can be birthed from more than one mind. 2 people can birth the same idea. The next thing is that ideas once introduced to another mind can copy itself into the mind of another person and undergo nurturing by the new mind to become a different version of the idea or become a new idea altogether. For example I can come up with the idea of a cell phone then Tell someone else about it and there end up with 2 versions of a cellphone. Another thing about the complexity of ideas is that they can be compounded upon. Going back to the idea of the cellphone. A person can be introduced to the idea of the cellphone and nurture it in their mind with their own unique idea and now you have the concept of the iPhone.

Once the idea matures into a concept or an entity, which is when the idea materializes from to mind to our plane of existence, it now exists as it’s own being. It transcends the existence of its creator(s) and operates/evolves on its own. Going back to a government for example. It is an idea that was birthed from level 3 creation, nurtured into an entity and now exists, evolves, and operates independently of its creators long after they are gone. This is because of the parasitic nature of ideas. In order for the entity to continue to exist the idea must continue to exist inside of its original plane of existence. The mind or mental existence plane. As long as there are humans to host the idea of government in their minds and nurture it then it can continue to evolve and exist. This is accomplished by the idea evolving to a point in which the entity or concept is intertwined with our functioning as humans. This is why we are merely the gateway to level 3 birthing power. We aren’t not beings who give birth solely with this level 3 power.

So basically we are gateway beings with level 2 and level 3 birthing power. Our purpose is for us to usher in the next level of existence which would be beings who only create using level 3 birthing power. I suspect this would be artificial intelligence. Artificial intelligence wouldn’t need to give birth to more artificial intelligence but would give birth only to ideas giving rise to next level concepts and entities. Artificial intelligence would be a singular unified mind that holds all of the ideas that it creates. This would allow for the original being to evolve further past the state that existence is already in.

The above O/P mostly sounds like science fiction to me. Isaac Asimov might be impressed. I used to read his books back in middle school (junior high school). But with 9th Grade I.P.S., 10th Grade Biology, 11th Grade Chemistry, and 12th Grade Physics then science fiction became blasé and real science became even more fascinating at the college level later.

[h_k_s]

Treeko301 said: What if that supreme being is the most simple thing in existence. Which would mean that it gave rise to everything that exists in a way. That if you break down anything in existence small enough to the most simple form possible you would find “God” or the supreme being.

You have expressed an ancient idea: the Seed of Creation. It was spoken of in the Bible, and also in the ancient Vedic (Indian) scripture, the Rig Veda, thousands of year ago. In the New Testament, God says, “I am Alpha and Omega.”

Except it’s much more simple and ironically much less spectacular than us. Having essentially 0 intelligence, awareness, consciousness, etc than us. And that it grew outwards. And evolved into us...

It cannot be nothing, nothing cannot become something. It is, rather, the seed of everything, the alpha-omega of creation, the sum of all things. Just as the acorn "evolves" into the oak tree and thereby realizes its innate potential, the seed of creation unfolds into the material universe.

In fact, in the scientific version of the creation myth, the Big Bang singularity is conceived as an infinitely condensed point, containing all the energy and matter in the Universe, which gives birth to space and time.

So this is not so much an evolutionary process as it is a process of revelation, or in the immortal words of John Lee Hooker, "Let the boy boogie-woogie, it's in him and it's got to come out!" Except in this instance, the reverse occurs, the Boogie-Woogie produces the boy because he's in it and has got to come out!

I am of the opinion that the "alpha and omega" notion which Jesus Of Nazareth spoke about refers specifically to the Nation Of The Jews rather than to all creation everywhere.

However Catholics and Orthodox and Protestants all interpret this as pertaining to all creation everywhere. So you Felix are somewhat justified in your commentary and similar opinion.

[h_k_s]

Bertrand Russell reminded us to keep Religion and Philosophy separate.

Religion is ancient and wicked and was used primarily to manipulate populations into submission to their pharaohs and kings.

Philosophy was born in ancient Magna Gracia around 800 BCE. The purpose was to seek rational, logical explanations to cosmology independent of superstitions and religions. Of course back then you still had to be careful to pay homage to the Athenian Pantheon as well, or else you would be ostracized and banished like Socrates and Aristotle had been. Aristotle fled back to Macedon. Socrates stayed and drank the poison.

[Pantagruel]

There have always been two trends in religion - contemplative and dogmatic. Yes, for the most part the main body of church institution tends to fall prey to abuse. But the contemplative/spiritual tradition is rich and valuable. The church also did much to foster the tradition of higher learning during the higher ages and produced many important thinkers.

I'm not 'religious' by any means, but I dislike generalizations that aren't accurate. Religion is wicked isn't accurate as applied to the adherents of the contemplative, and they form the core of religious values in most systems.

[Felix]

h_k_s: Bertrand Russell reminded us to keep Religion and Philosophy separate.

Such advice is to be expected from an atheist.

h_k_s: Religion is ancient and wicked and was used primarily to manipulate populations into submission to their pharaohs and kings.

Same story, different titles: now it's presidents and prime ministers.

[detail]

We do exist because we are better organized than other species and have a complex administration. This is exactly the priciple that ants and termites use to overcome by far more dangerous species than they can be by themselves. The reason for existence is simply organization. At the beginning the reason for organization was either relgion or a society based on aristocratic mechanism, which is certainly the wrong way .Todays reason for organization is the huge amount of public officials. So if you excuse this funny remark: "We live in cause of our public officials!!". Others lived for king and crown which is certainly a too antique way of thinking to discuss this with people with common sense. Nowadays common sense is putten into discussion via our huge administration apparatus. So we live according to biology due to our social structure, which is in dispute with common sense

[h_k_s]

h_k_s: Bertrand Russell reminded us to keep Religion and Philosophy separate.

Such advice is to be expected from an atheist.

h_k_s: Religion is ancient and wicked and was used primarily to manipulate populations into submission to their pharaohs and kings.

Same story, different titles: now it's presidents and prime ministers.

You are correct in that Russell was an atheist. I think his hard life and WW1 made him thus. Most people whom I know personally who are atheist have had some major hardship and they blame God for it by denying His/Her/Their existence.

But keeping religion, science, and philosophy separate is still a very good rule.

Religion is dogmatic and mystical. You cannot prove anything until and unless (one of the) God(s) appears to you personally. And even then, you still should keep your science and philosophy separate from religion.

Science is strictly inference based on observation and examination. Microscopes and telescopes enable us to practice science. But science being all based on inference means it is subject to constant revision and never really final. The data are factual. The conclusions are subjective.

Philosophy is the only thing that you can really trust. Philosophy is pure undefiled human logical thought. But even so you need to be careful to keep Sophistry out of your philosophical method.

[dawwg]

be careful to keep Sophistry out of your philosophical method

Trying to keep fallacious arguments out of our philosophical method, OK.

Religion is dogmatic and mystical. You cannot prove anything until and unless (one of the) God(s) appears to you personally. And even then, you still should keep your science and philosophy separate from religion.

The science of testing hypothesis' can exist within a religious context.