Words restrict Reality?

Robee321 · Post by **Robee321** » July 29th, 2019, 10:59 am

Human Understanding is now restricted within the confines of the Modern 'Word'?
Obviously. The Human 'Matrix' of understanding is very necessary for modern Humans to function in a Modern world.
But Words are in fact just a part of an 'Identification software reality'? That has been 'developed' to make sense of the Modern Psychological/Physical Reality Humans exist in.
Human Understanding of 'Everything' is based on Collective agreement of what words mean.
If all Humans Disappeared. Everything else would still exist as it always has. But without Human words for Identification, Value and Meaning for the benefit of Humans.
As things stand. Everything exists from the 'standpoint' of its own existence.
For example: A Tree exists without knowing its a Tree. Its only a Tree because Humans collectively agree to identify it as a Tree. Same goes for just about everything Non human.
It is the same for Humans too. Every word a Human Knows. Is the result of Human Collective agreement to the same knowing.
So. To understand the Individual reality of all 'things' We need to remove the Human Identification/Meaning Label? We need the ability to temporarily remove the Human Identification and Meaning to understand something from the 'standpoint of its own Individual Existence? Some kind of. New form of Empathic Understanding??

dawwg · Post by **dawwg** » July 30th, 2019, 5:56 am

Hello and welcome to my world (this is also my first post here

) In my world there are rules. The rules in my world were established before I came here; therefore the 'collective agreement' is dependent upon ratification by an authority.

The 'empathic understanding' would then be more of a deduction based synthesis of ideas based on observation that result in hypothesis'.

Hereandnow · Post by **Hereandnow** » July 30th, 2019, 7:04 pm

But Dawwg, yours needs a little explaining: how are you, explicitly, responding to Robee321? Your idea is clear, but its relevance is sketchy.

dawwg · Post by **dawwg** » July 30th, 2019, 10:31 pm

Ha ha; one might observe that relevancy is similar to beauty in that it is in the eye of the beholder, and that blindness can be a matter of choice.

h_k_s · Post by **h_k_s** » July 31st, 2019, 1:36 pm

Robee321 wrote: ↑July 29th, 2019, 10:59 am Human Understanding is now restricted within the confines of the Modern 'Word'?
Obviously. The Human 'Matrix' of understanding is very necessary for modern Humans to function in a Modern world.
But Words are in fact just a part of an 'Identification software reality'? That has been 'developed' to make sense of the Modern Psychological/Physical Reality Humans exist in.
Human Understanding of 'Everything' is based on Collective agreement of what words mean.
If all Humans Disappeared. Everything else would still exist as it always has. But without Human words for Identification, Value and Meaning for the benefit of Humans.
As things stand. Everything exists from the 'standpoint' of its own existence.
For example: A Tree exists without knowing its a Tree. Its only a Tree because Humans collectively agree to identify it as a Tree. Same goes for just about everything Non human.
It is the same for Humans too. Every word a Human Knows. Is the result of Human Collective agreement to the same knowing.
So. To understand the Individual reality of all 'things' We need to remove the Human Identification/Meaning Label? We need the ability to temporarily remove the Human Identification and Meaning to understand something from the 'standpoint of its own Individual Existence? Some kind of. New form of Empathic Understanding??

Nothing is "obvious."

You need to make your case, provide your evidence, and draw your logical conclusions.

h_k_s · Post by **h_k_s** » July 31st, 2019, 1:38 pm

Robee321 wrote: ↑July 29th, 2019, 10:59 am Human Understanding is now restricted within the confines of the Modern 'Word'?
Obviously. The Human 'Matrix' of understanding is very necessary for modern Humans to function in a Modern world.
But Words are in fact just a part of an 'Identification software reality'? That has been 'developed' to make sense of the Modern Psychological/Physical Reality Humans exist in.
Human Understanding of 'Everything' is based on Collective agreement of what words mean.
If all Humans Disappeared. Everything else would still exist as it always has. But without Human words for Identification, Value and Meaning for the benefit of Humans.
As things stand. Everything exists from the 'standpoint' of its own existence.
For example: A Tree exists without knowing its a Tree. Its only a Tree because Humans collectively agree to identify it as a Tree. Same goes for just about everything Non human.
It is the same for Humans too. Every word a Human Knows. Is the result of Human Collective agreement to the same knowing.
So. To understand the Individual reality of all 'things' We need to remove the Human Identification/Meaning Label? We need the ability to temporarily remove the Human Identification and Meaning to understand something from the 'standpoint of its own Individual Existence? Some kind of. New form of Empathic Understanding??

Do plants like trees have consciousness?

Plants turn towards the sun, even trees.

This suggests some kind of consciousness.

Ergo a tree may very well know that it is a tree. I think you have overlooked that.

h_k_s · Post by **h_k_s** » July 31st, 2019, 2:03 pm

dawwg wrote: ↑July 30th, 2019, 5:56 am Hello and welcome to my world (this is also my first post here :) ) In my world there are rules. The rules in my world were established before I came here; therefore the 'collective agreement' is dependent upon ratification by an authority.

The 'empathic understanding' would then be more of a deduction based synthesis of ideas based on observation that result in hypothesis'.

Welcome to the Forum. You do sound like a very good philosopher so far. Hopefully you will enjoy debating logically with us.

"Rules" implies the existence of a ruling authority which enforces them. By rules you probably mean laws of nature, such as gravity, combustion, motion, entropy, conservation of matter and energy combined, and so forth.

We still don't know much about this Ruling Authority. He/She/They have not readily introduced Themselves to us ordinary people.

Thanks to Aristotle, Augustine, Aquinas, Descartes, Leibniz, and Kant, we have been able to formulate some ideas about this Ruling Authority.

This anonymity by these Ruling Authorities is convenient for us however because it gives us great flexibility in defining them for ourselves.

But after we apply our philosophical intellects to do so, then we must have faith in our philosophy and in Their existence, for our own benefit.

h_k_s · Post by **h_k_s** » July 31st, 2019, 2:07 pm

Hereandnow wrote: ↑July 30th, 2019, 7:04 pm But Dawwg, yours needs a little explaining: how are you, explicitly, responding to Robee321? Your idea is clear, but its relevance is sketchy.

He ( dawwg ) is just setting the stage with his first post. I understood him okay.

Hereandnow · Post by **Hereandnow** » July 31st, 2019, 2:17 pm

with bated breath....

h_k_s · Post by **h_k_s** » July 31st, 2019, 4:40 pm

Hereandnow wrote: ↑July 31st, 2019, 2:17 pm with bated breath....

Technically it is spelled -- 'bated -- as in "abated."

Hereandnow · Post by **Hereandnow** » July 31st, 2019, 6:21 pm

no. it's just bated.

Post by **Sy Borg** » July 31st, 2019, 6:54 pm

Robee321 wrote: ↑July 29th, 2019, 10:59 amAs things stand. Everything exists from the 'standpoint' of its own existence.
For example: A Tree exists without knowing its a Tree. Its only a Tree because Humans collectively agree to identify it as a Tree. Same goes for just about everything Non human.

Consider what names are - and are not. They are labels but they tell us nothing about things, they just allow us to talk about them.

Richard Feynman on the limitations of labels: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFIYKmos3-s

dawwg · Post by **dawwg** » July 31st, 2019, 8:52 pm

h_k_s wrote: ↑July 31st, 2019, 2:03 pm Welcome to the Forum. You do sound like a very good philosopher so far.

Thankyou for the welcome

h_k_s wrote: ↑July 31st, 2019, 2:03 pm Hopefully you will enjoy debating logically with us.

Ah! I am a slow learner with much to learn, including the politics of addressing the topic or disparaging the participants.

h_k_s wrote: ↑July 31st, 2019, 2:03 pm "Rules" implies the existence of a ruling authority which enforces them. By rules you probably mean laws of nature, such as gravity, combustion, motion, entropy, conservation of matter and energy combined, and so forth.

I doubt the rules of this forum are intrinsically laws of nature, however much an authority would like to consider be regarded as such.

h_k_s wrote: ↑July 31st, 2019, 2:03 pm We still don't know much about this Ruling Authority. He/She/They have not readily introduced Themselves to us ordinary people.

And there's probably a rule that applies. Why is one person/one card drawn out of the deck of 52? By chance? By design? Granted the uninformed are entitled to their doubts and their expression of them.

h_k_s wrote: ↑July 31st, 2019, 2:03 pm Thanks to Aristotle, Augustine, Aquinas, Descartes, Leibniz, and Kant, we have been able to formulate some ideas about this Ruling Authority.

Suppositions circulated by authorities on the matter such as you lot

h_k_s wrote: ↑July 31st, 2019, 2:03 pm This anonymity by these Ruling Authorities is convenient for us however because it gives us great flexibility in defining them for ourselves.

"Can we all agree on that" well, no, but we can invoke precedent in our favor.

h_k_s wrote: ↑July 31st, 2019, 2:03 pm But after we apply our philosophical intellects to do so, then we must have faith in our philosophy and in Their existence, for our own benefit.

Personally I think 'faith in our philosophy" is overly optimistic. Look around, the philosophy of division and advantage results in National identity and warfare, you have faith in that?

"and in Their existence, for our own benefit"- No doubt the laws that proscribe us exist, and humanity is a product of resisting the law of the jungle.

dawwg · Post by **dawwg** » August 1st, 2019, 8:24 am

Robee321 wrote: ↑July 29th, 2019, 10:59 am But Words are in fact just a part of an 'Identification software reality'? That has been 'developed' to make sense of the Modern Psychological/Physical Reality Humans exist in.

Is Reality sufficient unto itself to the exclusion of words?
Evidently in reality words exist, therefor the necessity of words is apparent at this location in ultimate reality, as are fleas.

MrE · Post by **MrE** » August 1st, 2019, 11:34 am

Not sure I really understand this. None of it is based on any facts, evidence, proofs, or possibilities.

Human Understanding is now restricted within the confines of the Modern 'Word'?

Was human understanding ever not restricted?

Obviously. The Human 'Matrix' of understanding is very necessary for modern Humans to function in a Modern world.

Why is this only modern humans in a modern world? Was it different before? Language is a just a tool

But Words are in fact just a part of an 'Identification software reality'? That has been 'developed' to make sense of the Modern Psychological/Physical Reality Humans exist in.

What other physical reality do humans exist in?

Human Understanding of 'Everything' is based on Collective agreement of what words mean.

Words don't mean anything, but provide common usages. The same word in one location/culture can mean something completely different in another location/culture.

If all Humans Disappeared. Everything else would still exist as it always has. But without Human words for Identification, Value and Meaning for the benefit of Humans.

Not sure what the point is?

As things stand. Everything exists from the 'standpoint' of its own existence.

Not sure what the point is?

For example: A Tree exists without knowing its a Tree. Its only a Tree because Humans collectively agree to identify it as a Tree. Same goes for just about everything Non human.

Not agreed on collectively by all humans, and some non-humans have their own rudimentary language/communication system

It is the same for Humans too. Every word a Human Knows. Is the result of Human Collective agreement to the same knowing.

Again not all humans have the same understanding. There are words that do not exist in other languages or concepts that can't be properly communicated in other languages

So. To understand the Individual reality of all 'things' We need to remove the Human Identification/Meaning Label?

What is an individual reality and how do you remove labels?

We need the ability to temporarily remove the Human Identification and Meaning to understand something from the 'standpoint of its own Individual Existence? Some kind of. New form of Empathic Understanding??

How do you do what you recommend and can you prove that is even possible? What is a new form of empathic understanding or even define what this means?