Trading the Myth of Progress for the Myth of Ingress

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creation
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Re: Trading the Myth of Progress for the Myth of Ingress

Post by creation » April 17th, 2020, 7:33 am

Papus79 wrote:
April 16th, 2020, 1:26 pm
creation wrote:
April 16th, 2020, 1:07 pm
I would not be so sure about your parents not abusing you.

From my perspective, I can see how you have been very abused, although you are not yet able to see this yourself.
I genuinely don't care to prove that to someone on an internet forum. My advice - believe whatever closes the circuit for ya, it's what you're going to do anyway.
But I neither believe nor disbelieve any thing.

I just said, do not be so sure, and, I can see how you have been.

But if you are so absolutely sure that you have not, and do not care to prove that, then so be it.
Papus79 wrote:
April 16th, 2020, 1:26 pm
As far as everything else - I can't be arsed to even worry about what it is you believe or what 'truth' only you and a select few are seeing. People who have discussions on this board actually put their sacred cows up for examination - if they chose to talk about a given topic and take other people's beliefs and ideas on in any sort of opposition to them. When and if you learn to do that and do it politely your posts *might* be interesting. Until that point it's going to be half a page at go of empty can rattling.
Considering it was you who made a claim, but genuinely do not care to prove that claim, then saying what you have here seems very contradictory and hypocritical itself.

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Papus79
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Re: Trading the Myth of Progress for the Myth of Ingress

Post by Papus79 » April 17th, 2020, 9:15 am

creation wrote:
April 17th, 2020, 7:33 am
Papus79 wrote:
April 16th, 2020, 1:26 pm

I genuinely don't care to prove that to someone on an internet forum. My advice - believe whatever closes the circuit for ya, it's what you're going to do anyway.
But I neither believe nor disbelieve any thing.

I just said, do not be so sure, and, I can see how you have been.
Awesome. Explain.
creation wrote:
April 17th, 2020, 7:33 am
Papus79 wrote:
April 16th, 2020, 1:26 pm
As far as everything else - I can't be arsed to even worry about what it is you believe or what 'truth' only you and a select few are seeing. People who have discussions on this board actually put their sacred cows up for examination - if they chose to talk about a given topic and take other people's beliefs and ideas on in any sort of opposition to them. When and if you learn to do that and do it politely your posts *might* be interesting. Until that point it's going to be half a page at go of empty can rattling.
Considering it was you who made a claim, but genuinely do not care to prove that claim, then saying what you have here seems very contradictory and hypocritical itself.
You're making no structured counter-claims which is why this wouldn't be worth my time even if you had the notion of how to be civil about it.
People aren't fundamentally good or fundamentally bad, we're fundamentally trying to survive. It's the environment and culture which tells us what that's going to be.

creation
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Re: Trading the Myth of Progress for the Myth of Ingress

Post by creation » April 17th, 2020, 10:10 am

Papus79 wrote:
April 17th, 2020, 9:15 am
creation wrote:
April 17th, 2020, 7:33 am


But I neither believe nor disbelieve any thing.

I just said, do not be so sure, and, I can see how you have been.
Awesome. Explain.
Explain what EXACTLY?

If you do not ask a specific clarifying question, then I do not know what to specifically explain.
Papus79 wrote:
April 17th, 2020, 9:15 am
creation wrote:
April 17th, 2020, 7:33 am

Considering it was you who made a claim, but genuinely do not care to prove that claim, then saying what you have here seems very contradictory and hypocritical itself.
You're making no structured counter-claims which is why this wouldn't be worth my time even if you had the notion of how to be civil about it.
Why do you have some presumption that I am not being "civil"?

I am not making a counter-claim because I do not want to.

I just forewarned you about you being so sure of yourself in your claim.

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Papus79
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Re: Trading the Myth of Progress for the Myth of Ingress

Post by Papus79 » April 17th, 2020, 10:23 am

creation wrote:
April 17th, 2020, 10:10 am
Explain what EXACTLY?
Your word-puzzle.
creation wrote:
April 17th, 2020, 10:10 am
If you do not ask a specific clarifying question, then I do not know what to specifically explain.
You made it so unclear that I figured it would be best for you to clean up your own mess.
creation wrote:
April 17th, 2020, 10:10 am
Why do you have some presumption that I am not being "civil"?
You're telling people all over the forum (as you did in this thread on page 1) that they're unlearned and uneducated and following that with nothing to substantiate that it's anything more than projection.
creation wrote:
April 17th, 2020, 10:10 am
I am not making a counter-claim because I do not want to.
Then that gets me right back to what I said about your posts - half pages of white noise that act as a time suck for anyone reading or responding to them with no noted effort to productively participate by offering any sort of structured ideas that can be held up as a counterweight. If your social skills are this bad we should really pay no more attention or effort than if you were actively trolling.
People aren't fundamentally good or fundamentally bad, we're fundamentally trying to survive. It's the environment and culture which tells us what that's going to be.

creation
Posts: 1098
Joined: November 22nd, 2019, 10:39 pm

Re: Trading the Myth of Progress for the Myth of Ingress

Post by creation » April 17th, 2020, 11:35 am

Papus79 wrote:
April 17th, 2020, 10:23 am
creation wrote:
April 17th, 2020, 10:10 am
Explain what EXACTLY?
Your word-puzzle.
creation wrote:
April 17th, 2020, 10:10 am
If you do not ask a specific clarifying question, then I do not know what to specifically explain.
You made it so unclear that I figured it would be best for you to clean up your own mess.
But I ALREADY understand "my own mess" FULLY, so there is NOTHING to clean up.

If you show absolutely NO interest in "my own mess", by asking specific clarifying questions, then I also have absolutely NO interest in explaining anything further. I am completely happy and satisfied with what I ALREADY KNOW.
Papus79 wrote:
April 17th, 2020, 10:23 am
creation wrote:
April 17th, 2020, 10:10 am
Why do you have some presumption that I am not being "civil"?
You're telling people all over the forum (as you did in this thread on page 1) that they're unlearned and uneducated and following that with nothing to substantiate that it's anything more than projection.
But I have also said that I am the least educated one here. I have also said that I cannot even communicate with human beings sufficiently, as well as any other one is able to. Therefore, you have either MISSED this, or you just want to see things from some particular perspective.

I am the most unlearned, most uneducated, and most non-intellectual one in this forum.

Also, I think you will have some trouble finding me "telling people all over the forum (as I supposedly have in this thread on the previous page) that they are unlearned and uneducated. But maybe you can prove me WRONG here by directing us to the actual words where I have actually said this. Are you able to do this?
Papus79 wrote:
April 17th, 2020, 10:23 am
creation wrote:
April 17th, 2020, 10:10 am
I am not making a counter-claim because I do not want to.
Then that gets me right back to what I said about your posts - half pages of white noise that act as a time suck for anyone reading or responding to them with no noted effort to productively participate by offering any sort of structured ideas that can be held up as a counterweight.
But you are NOT seeing the 'structured ideas' for the reasons explained in the 'structured idea', itself, which I am explaining. But you just cannot SEE, nor UNDERSTAND.
Papus79 wrote:
April 17th, 2020, 10:23 am
If your social skills are this bad we should really pay no more attention or effort than if you were actively trolling.
Look, you made a claim. I just said do not be so sure about it.

Either you want to back up and support your claim, or you cannot and/or do not want to. You say you do not care to prove your claim. So, be it. I do not care if you do or do not. I just would NOT be so sure of yourself, as you come across here.

If you genuinely do not care about proving your claim, then why be so concerned about what I said in regards to your claim?

If you were really curious to know my thoughts, then I just gave them:
If we just lived, mentally, with only what we 'need', like we did before we became greedy and started living for what we 'wanted' instead, then we will transgress back to our naturally inherent way, which is against all of these human created immoral laws and behaviors that we now live with.

Contrary to popular belief; Our naturally inherent way is to be peaceful, loving, caring, guiding and protecting. Just one would not think so, if and when they look at human beings and the way they misbehave, in the days of when this is being written.

NukeBan
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Re: Trading the Myth of Progress for the Myth of Ingress

Post by NukeBan » April 23rd, 2020, 8:43 am

Here's a couple of suggestions that might make true progress a reality...

1) A World Without Men - Something like 95%+ of the violence in the world is committed by men, a very longstanding pattern. If there were no male humans almost all violence would end, lifting a HUGE burden of fear and suffering. Trillions upon trillions of dollars now spent on managing violence could be redirected in to more constructive projects like education and health care etc.

2) Our Relationship With Knowledge - The "more is better" relationship with knowledge which is the foundation of our civilization was rational in the long era of knowledge scarcity. We are no longer in that old era, but are now in a modern era characterized by a knowledge explosion. In this radically new context, a "more is better" relationship with knowledge is simplistic, outdated and increasingly dangerous. That is, it's 19th century philosophy that we are attempting to apply to a 21st century reality.

I've written longer articles on both these subjects but am wary of posting a link unless a moderator adamantly demands that I do so. :-)

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Papus79
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Re: Trading the Myth of Progress for the Myth of Ingress

Post by Papus79 » April 23rd, 2020, 3:51 pm

NukeBan wrote:
April 23rd, 2020, 8:43 am
Here's a couple of suggestions that might make true progress a reality...

1) A World Without Men - Something like 95%+ of the violence in the world is committed by men, a very longstanding pattern. If there were no male humans almost all violence would end, lifting a HUGE burden of fear and suffering. Trillions upon trillions of dollars now spent on managing violence could be redirected in to more constructive projects like education and health care etc.
By the time you can do that wouldn't you have thrown aside so many undesirable traits on the genetic chopping block that we'd be post-human in the fullest sense and neither men nor women would exist? I say that because, I hate to say it, violence is actually circular and a lot of it relates back to what's demanded of men. All we could hope for if we're getting wild with the genetic engineering is that we could remake ourselves as equally so docile by nature and so ultra-proficient with violence that we'd neither have violence from one another nor would another race that tried to take us by violence have a prayer of doing so.
NukeBan wrote:
April 23rd, 2020, 8:43 am
2) Our Relationship With Knowledge - The "more is better" relationship with knowledge which is the foundation of our civilization was rational in the long era of knowledge scarcity. We are no longer in that old era, but are now in a modern era characterized by a knowledge explosion. In this radically new context, a "more is better" relationship with knowledge is simplistic, outdated and increasingly dangerous. That is, it's 19th century philosophy that we are attempting to apply to a 21st century reality.
I'd agree that quality beats the heck out of quantity, especially when so much of what's getting spun up out there is really spider web-spinning. I'd suppose that we'd have to start first with figuring out what the heck happened to academia and how it was that the various administrative classes, social climbers, and 'sharp elbows' hijacked it and figure out how to build a far better auxiliary without the same weaknesses - for a much lower price - that it has to compete with.
People aren't fundamentally good or fundamentally bad, we're fundamentally trying to survive. It's the environment and culture which tells us what that's going to be.

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LuckyR
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Re: Trading the Myth of Progress for the Myth of Ingress

Post by LuckyR » April 23rd, 2020, 6:23 pm

NukeBan wrote:
April 23rd, 2020, 8:43 am
Here's a couple of suggestions that might make true progress a reality...

1) A World Without Men - Something like 95%+ of the violence in the world is committed by men, a very longstanding pattern. If there were no male humans almost all violence would end, lifting a HUGE burden of fear and suffering. Trillions upon trillions of dollars now spent on managing violence could be redirected in to more constructive projects like education and health care etc.

2) Our Relationship With Knowledge - The "more is better" relationship with knowledge which is the foundation of our civilization was rational in the long era of knowledge scarcity. We are no longer in that old era, but are now in a modern era characterized by a knowledge explosion. In this radically new context, a "more is better" relationship with knowledge is simplistic, outdated and increasingly dangerous. That is, it's 19th century philosophy that we are attempting to apply to a 21st century reality.

I've written longer articles on both these subjects but am wary of posting a link unless a moderator adamantly demands that I do so. :-)
1) 95%? I seriously doubt it. Maybe physical violence. Emotional violence is at best 50/50 and some would argue it is more like 10/90 favoring women.

2) You are correct about the knowledge explosion, but IMO being old enough to have acquired actual knowledge, yet being young enough to master the Search skills necessary to thrive in the Modern era is better than either skillset of the very old (can't Search) or the very young (haven't memorized anything).
"As usual... it depends."

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