Woke Philosophy – what is it?

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Tecolote
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Re: Woke Philosophy – what is it?

Post by Tecolote »

LuckyR wrote: September 25th, 2020, 1:16 pmYou were the one who introduced differences in upbringing into a conversation on the fact that different people get treated differently by the police. I was just trying to figure out why. I asked a question (rather than assume I knew what you were driving at). Seeking clarification as opposed to jumping to conclusions, you should try it.
I told you that those were only examples. Where you got an absurd idea like “deserve” must have been the wormhole of non sequitur.
So attorneys general (who work with cops every single day) are the arbiters of the truth when it comes to the behavior of said cops? I'll put my reading comprehension against your (fake) naivete' any day.
Would you rather have the yellow press and baying mob that’s ascendant now?
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Sculptor1
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Re: Woke Philosophy – what is it?

Post by Sculptor1 »

Warning. This video shows a killing.

George Floyd was clearly in total panic fearing he would be shot or killed by the police - as are many black people in the USA.
Despite this the police get him in the police car, but decide to take him out.

The police dragged him out of the police car with the intention of stepping on his neck to make him unconscious, thus making his fears come true.

Around 20:18 they stand on his neck cutting of his air, and after 10 minutes he is dead.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhwxGzY ... 1601207635

For all those that can watch this and still think BLM is a communist plot, maybe you should consider your position? What is it you see when you see a black face? DO you see a human?
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Papus79
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Re: Woke Philosophy – what is it?

Post by Papus79 »

Sculptor1 wrote: September 27th, 2020, 7:40 am For all those that can watch this and still think BLM is a communist plot, maybe you should consider your position? What is it you see when you see a black face? DO you see a human?
Seems like damn near anyone who can say it's 'x' and 'x' is a single tidy narrative doesn't know what they're on about and so I'd worry about anyone who says that it's strictly that or that it hasn't at all been infiltrated by various kinds of accelerationist.

- Police brutality and particularly poor training and even worse self-defense and weapons training is part of this.
- A history of the state using the police as a tool for violence against the poor, and particularly minorities, is a big part of this.
- Legal equality and laws enforcing equality have not returned the expected results and that's clearly been a negative contributing factor.
- A US, and really the same story across the commonwealths and Europe, that's being hollowed out through automation and global trade thus fewer jobs and increasing power on the part of employers to squeeze what labor they have.
- The ever present genetic arms race where everyone's genes are a bit more important the next person's and where peace is for losers, hatred is for winners.
- A social media landscape that's taken this last point, ie. perpetual state of war in nature, and turned it into massive disinformation based on competing interests, maximizing for clicks rather than facts (Tristan Harris is great on this) thus there's increasingly less of a shared truth.
- Foreign countries are *absolutely* taking the social media landscape as a means to foment unrest in competing countries - you could hardly get a sweeter deal for both effectiveness and plausible deniability.

The really terrifying thing about social media is that it can take individual people's failings, somewhere in the world, and magnify them to the sky if they fit a reliable narrative that people already believe. In the case of George Floyd you have people like John McWhorter and Glen Loury pointing out that this is something that's happening to white people at the hands of the police as well and they've given examples.

As far as BLM I've noticed something increasingly, and the case was made in my own home city when they had a protest at the Justice center. They were actually peaceful, they made their way from a given point downtown to the Justice center where a whole bunch of white kids masked, dressed in black, with book bags were waiting. Whoever was organizing those kids, per some of the reporters who were watching the riots instigated by them, were from out of town - ie. they didn't know which way it was from where they were at to certain key landmarks that anyone from my city would know. There probably are some crazies who do fit the BLM metrics and do make the movement look terrible. One of the troubles with leaderless movements is they can't effectively screen their membership and activism, unfortunately, tends to fill up with psychopaths and manipulators fast if it gains any steam or power.

My own opinion on BLM is a mixed bag.

On one hand I think of Ice T in his Body Count video 'No Lives Matter' or Public Enemy with Nas et. al. doing the 2020 'Fight the Power' remix - I have a lot of respect for that, especially with Ice T stating that when it comes down to it it's not about race - it's a really twisted elite against blacks, against Hispanics, against poor whites, against everyone, and to them 'no lives matter' save their own.

On the other hand there's the 'Defund the police' side. Unless one wants the military to take their place and live under some form of martial law it's an absurdity. It's tough to tell how much of that is psychopaths rent-seeking, how much of that is outside plants trying to twist the movement, or how much of that is people being genuinely that uneducated. Corruption done right though makes any sort of distinguishing what-from-what impossible though and so the fade between grifting, astroturf injections, and incompetence - much like voting fraud - tends to be a massive haze by design.
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Sculptor1
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Re: Woke Philosophy – what is it?

Post by Sculptor1 »

Papus79 wrote: September 27th, 2020, 8:05 am
Sculptor1 wrote: September 27th, 2020, 7:40 am For all those that can watch this and still think BLM is a communist plot, maybe you should consider your position? What is it you see when you see a black face? DO you see a human?
Seems like damn near anyone who can say it's 'x' and 'x' is a single tidy narrative doesn't know what they're on about and so I'd worry about anyone who says that it's strictly that or that it hasn't at all been infiltrated by various kinds of accelerationist.

- Police brutality and particularly poor training and even worse self-defense and weapons training is part of this.
- A history of the state using the police as a tool for violence against the poor, and particularly minorities, is a big part of this.
- Legal equality and laws enforcing equality have not returned the expected results and that's clearly been a negative contributing factor.
- A US, and really the same story across the commonwealths and Europe, that's being hollowed out through automation and global trade thus fewer jobs and increasing power on the part of employers to squeeze what labor they have.
- The ever present genetic arms race where everyone's genes are a bit more important the next person's and where peace is for losers, hatred is for winners.
- A social media landscape that's taken this last point, ie. perpetual state of war in nature, and turned it into massive disinformation based on competing interests, maximizing for clicks rather than facts (Tristan Harris is great on this) thus there's increasingly less of a shared truth.
- Foreign countries are *absolutely* taking the social media landscape as a means to foment unrest in competing countries - you could hardly get a sweeter deal for both effectiveness and plausible deniability.

The really terrifying thing about social media is that it can take individual people's failings, somewhere in the world, and magnify them to the sky if they fit a reliable narrative that people already believe. In the case of George Floyd you have people like John McWhorter and Glen Loury pointing out that this is something that's happening to white people at the hands of the police as well and they've given examples.

As far as BLM I've noticed something increasingly, and the case was made in my own home city when they had a protest at the Justice center. They were actually peaceful, they made their way from a given point downtown to the Justice center where a whole bunch of white kids masked, dressed in black, with book bags were waiting. Whoever was organizing those kids, per some of the reporters who were watching the riots instigated by them, were from out of town - ie. they didn't know which way it was from where they were at to certain key landmarks that anyone from my city would know. There probably are some crazies who do fit the BLM metrics and do make the movement look terrible. One of the troubles with leaderless movements is they can't effectively screen their membership and activism, unfortunately, tends to fill up with psychopaths and manipulators fast if it gains any steam or power.

My own opinion on BLM is a mixed bag.

On one hand I think of Ice T in his Body Count video 'No Lives Matter' or Public Enemy with Nas et. al. doing the 2020 'Fight the Power' remix - I have a lot of respect for that, especially with Ice T stating that when it comes down to it it's not about race - it's a really twisted elite against blacks, against Hispanics, against poor whites, against everyone, and to them 'no lives matter' save their own.

On the other hand there's the 'Defund the police' side. Unless one wants the military to take their place and live under some form of martial law it's an absurdity. It's tough to tell how much of that is psychopaths rent-seeking, how much of that is outside plants trying to twist the movement, or how much of that is people being genuinely that uneducated. Corruption done right though makes any sort of distinguishing what-from-what impossible though and so the fade between grifting, astroturf injections, and incompetence - much like voting fraud - tends to be a massive haze by design.
Do you have an idea, why they removed him from the police car, having gone to great lengths to put him inside?
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Papus79
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Re: Woke Philosophy – what is it?

Post by Papus79 »

Sculptor1 wrote: September 27th, 2020, 8:17 am Do you have an idea, why they removed him from the police car, having gone to great lengths to put him inside?
I wouldn't claim to. The idea that Derrick Chauvin knew him from the club they both worked at, prior altercations between them, Derrick Chauvin likely being a psychopath on a power trip, all of those things come to mind. There's been concern as well that the law, as it stands, would exonerate Chauvin as having 'plaid within the lines' of the law or at least bumping the charges down from murder if it turned out that what he did was within the parameters of the description even if, in actuality, it's debatably either manslaughter or premeditated murder by someone - of all things - committing that murder with a badge.

All of my thoughts above put aside - unless these other police officers were that terrified of Chauvin or that much like him (terrible screening in their hires in that case) I try to think then of what the alternatives would be and none of them look good. Would the Minneapolis PD, with any sense of self-reservation, train that into their officers as their policy let alone say 'Well done! Killing black men is right at the center of our unwritten mission statement!'? It's really tough to imagine this being emblematic of policing and the goals of policing in any major city in 2020. That would really then, if being a deliberate / coordinated thing, send us way out into deep waters of deliberately fomenting race war, trying to end democracy in the US, 'break away societies' trying to burn it all down so they can come in with the solution - stuff I don't necessarily believe but again, once one gets past petty conspiracies of immediate gain or covering for liabilities the grander conspiracies head out toward the tin foil factory fast and it's quite difficult to do much of anything with them (and if any of them were remotely true the only workable approach would be to uproot them from front to back as one has to when something is happening that would seem to bizarre for most people to believe).
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Arjen
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Favorite Philosopher: Immanuel Kant

Re: Woke Philosophy – what is it?

Post by Arjen »

Sculptor1 wrote: September 25th, 2020, 12:01 pm
Arjen wrote: September 25th, 2020, 2:14 am The whole point of BLM is to subversively use concerned people for communist goals.

What do you make of this?

https://www.theguardian.com/law/2020/se ... FIbsYT5-R4
1) Everyone needs to identify before entering a courthouse. No one suggested she was a defendant.
2) Everyone needs to wait outside the courtroom until the court is in session. No one suggested she was a defendant.
3) When going in, she gets told to leave, because no one enters a courtroom before the court is in session. No one suggested she was a defendant.

The only mixup appears to be in the news article. Fueling a race issue, to twist into a class struggle for a communist revolution, which ends in show trials and totalitarianism? Uyghur, also 500000 Tibetans now in concentration camps and 10000 democrats in Hong Kong have been arrested in the last 3 months.
Sculptor1 wrote: September 27th, 2020, 7:40 am Warning. This video shows a killing.

George Floyd was clearly in total panic fearing he would be shot or killed by the police - as are many black people in the USA.
Despite this the police get him in the police car, but decide to take him out.

The police dragged him out of the police car with the intention of stepping on his neck to make him unconscious, thus making his fears come true.

Around 20:18 they stand on his neck cutting of his air, and after 10 minutes he is dead.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhwxGzY ... 1601207635

For all those that can watch this and still think BLM is a communist plot, maybe you should consider your position? What is it you see when you see a black face? DO you see a human?
The guy was talking about not being able to breathe before he was handled by the police. It turns out that he was on crystal meth, which causes asphyxiation sometimes. 2 Autopsies show it was part of the cause of death; 1 ruled out the knee altogether. The police were unaware of the meth. The 911 call of the robbery suggested "out of control on alcohol". Given many priors, which include sexual assault under threat of a firearm, armed robbery and dealing cocaine, he was considered armed and dangerous. They took no chances and used the knee, as is recommended. No racism involved.

How can you deny that there is something wrong with the news? Did you even know these facts? Or that the knee lock is used all over the world and no one dies from it? Only mr. Floyd, who was on meth, which causes asphyxiation?

Disclaimer: Still, it would have been better had he not died, but it is common practise to ignore a suspect in a difficult position until they decide to move. I imagine that the fact that he complained about air before the knee is the reason why they ignored it, not knowing about the meth.
The saying that what is true in theory is not always true in practice, means that the theory is wrong!
~Immanuel Kant
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Arjen
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Joined: January 16th, 2019, 4:53 am
Favorite Philosopher: Immanuel Kant

Re: Woke Philosophy – what is it?

Post by Arjen »

Sculptor1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgVszfP ... I0-cRFu8aI
The ideological frame is Marxism.
That is the horse's mouth.
Do you deny that BLM has this agenda?
The saying that what is true in theory is not always true in practice, means that the theory is wrong!
~Immanuel Kant
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Sculptor1
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Joined: May 16th, 2019, 5:35 am

Re: Woke Philosophy – what is it?

Post by Sculptor1 »

Papus79 wrote: September 27th, 2020, 8:33 am
Sculptor1 wrote: September 27th, 2020, 8:17 am Do you have an idea, why they removed him from the police car, having gone to great lengths to put him inside?
I wouldn't claim to. The idea that Derrick Chauvin knew him from the club they both worked at, prior altercations between them, Derrick Chauvin likely being a psychopath on a power trip, all of those things come to mind.
And that is most probably why Floyd was **** scared of being shot.
There's been concern as well that the law, as it stands, would exonerate Chauvin as having 'plaid within the lines' of the law or at least bumping the charges down from murder if it turned out that what he did was within the parameters of the description even if, in actuality, it's debatably either manslaughter or premeditated murder by someone - of all things - committing that murder with a badge.

All of my thoughts above put aside - unless these other police officers were that terrified of Chauvin or that much like him (terrible screening in their hires in that case) I try to think then of what the alternatives would be and none of them look good. Would the Minneapolis PD, with any sense of self-reservation, train that into their officers as their policy let alone say 'Well done! Killing black men is right at the center of our unwritten mission statement!'? It's really tough to imagine this being emblematic of policing and the goals of policing in any major city in 2020. That would really then, if being a deliberate / coordinated thing, send us way out into deep waters of deliberately fomenting race war, trying to end democracy in the US, 'break away societies' trying to burn it all down so they can come in with the solution - stuff I don't necessarily believe but again, once one gets past petty conspiracies of immediate gain or covering for liabilities the grander conspiracies head out toward the tin foil factory fast and it's quite difficult to do much of anything with them (and if any of them were remotely true the only workable approach would be to uproot them from front to back as one has to when something is happening that would seem to bizarre for most people to believe).
I did not hear any of them really try to reassure him. Nor did I hear a formal charge or arrest, or reading of rights.
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Sculptor1
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Re: Woke Philosophy – what is it?

Post by Sculptor1 »

Arjen wrote: September 27th, 2020, 11:51 am
Sculptor1 wrote: September 25th, 2020, 12:01 pm

What do you make of this?

https://www.theguardian.com/law/2020/se ... FIbsYT5-R4
1) Everyone needs to identify before entering a courthouse. No one suggested she was a defendant.
WRONG.
This is the UK, not Gaza.
White lawyers are not challenged.
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