Is There Really An Equal Amount Of Good And Bad In Everything?

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impermanence
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Is There Really An Equal Amount Of Good And Bad In Everything?

Post by impermanence »

Absolutely. Here's why...

Good and bad cannot exist in a vacuum. One creates the other and co-exist [not necessarily in a temporal fashion]. No matter how good or how bad something appears, the results must lead to something just as good or bad in direct proportion.

Example 1: WWII

It would be impossible to quantify the bad that was the Second World War, but if you were keeping score, the over-all good that came out of that foray in collective human insanity must equal the what went down.

Example 2: Your first love/heartbreak.

Need I say more?
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Terrapin Station
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Re: Is There Really An Equal Amount Of Good And Bad In Everything?

Post by Terrapin Station »

Good and bad are judgments that individuals make. They're not literally "in" anything/anyone. Different people make different judgments about the same things.
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Clapper tongue
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Re: Is There Really An Equal Amount Of Good And Bad In Everything?

Post by Clapper tongue »

Haha define good, the best we can hope for is that the two balance out. For example some would say that those who work in the sick industry,Doctors, Nurses etc do good. Some would suggest that drug dealer's like Pfizer do good . My contention is that at their very best they kill as many as they cure, though I suspect they do
more bad than good . Good and bad does not exist in
the natural order, all other species do only what is necessary for there survival and continuum. We on the other hand are, for the most are part ,greedy, lazy and stupid. When we relate our predicament to the natural order this becomes obvious and so the concept of good and bad is formed. The so called "good" that we do is meaningles, the notion of the two being equally balanced is entirely subjective.
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Newme
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Re: Is There Really An Equal Amount Of Good And Bad In Everything?

Post by Newme »

Terrapin Station wrote: December 17th, 2020, 7:43 pm Good and bad are judgments that individuals make. They're not literally "in" anything/anyone. Different people make different judgments about the same things.
I was thinking similarly.


Yet, I don’t disagree with Impermanence’s claims. What’s difficult to measure & determine are the multitude of ways some event has inspired good and bad socially, physiologically, financially, spiritually, sociologically, environmentally etc.

Also, maybe (I’m speculating) this notion of yin-yang equal balance of good & evil - is rooted more in human collective unconscious’s tendency toward polarized thinking - rather than a fundamental law of nature/supernatural. I suggest this because as limited as it is, my understanding of my psychology is more than the infinite possible good & bad interpretations of every event - past, present & future.

And since this is all subjective speculation, let’s consider likely consequences of this. If I believed every time I did something good, there would be an equally bad result, how motivated would I be to make this world better - & how justified would I be in making it more hellish?
“Empty is the argument of the philosopher which does not relieve any human suffering.” - Epicurus
baker
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Re: Is There Really An Equal Amount Of Good And Bad In Everything?

Post by baker »

impermanence wrote: December 17th, 2020, 2:17 pmIs There Really An Equal Amount Of Good And Bad In Everything?
The idea that there is an equal amount of good and bad in everything seems to be first a foremost a matter of instruction, rather than description.

If a person's analysis of life is in terms of "there is an equal amount of good and bad in everything", if this is what they tell themselves how to look at things, then this seems likely to keep the person's mind and moods on an even keel, thus neither getting overly optimistic, nor overly pessimistic.
Steve3007
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Re: Is There Really An Equal Amount Of Good And Bad In Everything?

Post by Steve3007 »

Paul McCartney and Stevie Wonder certainly thought so. They even wrote a schmaltzy song about it.
baker
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Re: Is There Really An Equal Amount Of Good And Bad In Everything?

Post by baker »

Steve3007 wrote: December 18th, 2020, 6:51 amPaul McCartney and Stevie Wonder certainly thought so. They even wrote a schmaltzy song about it.
But maybe it was just a song about a piano after all.
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Re: Is There Really An Equal Amount Of Good And Bad In Everything?

Post by Steve3007 »

baker wrote:But maybe it was just a song about a piano after all.
:D

On the subject of the OP though, it seems pretty obvious that TS is right and that the idea of good and bad being "in" things, as opposed to being judgements that different people make about things, is nonsense, even if it does make popular song lyrics.
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Re: Is There Really An Equal Amount Of Good And Bad In Everything?

Post by Pattern-chaser »

impermanence wrote: December 17th, 2020, 2:17 pm Absolutely. Here's why...

Good and bad cannot exist in a vacuum. One creates the other and co-exist [not necessarily in a temporal fashion]. No matter how good or how bad something appears, the results must lead to something just as good or bad in direct proportion.

Example 1: WWII

It would be impossible to quantify the bad that was the Second World War, but if you were keeping score, the over-all good that came out of that foray in collective human insanity must equal the what went down.

Example 2: Your first love/heartbreak.

Need I say more?
Good and bad give meaning to one another, like light and dark, so I think it is right to say that nothing is wholly one or the other. But "an equal amount of good and bad in everything"? No. It is untrue, as we can see when we observe the world around us. Some thing are mainly good, and others mainly bad. A few things may be equally good and bad, but this is far from the norm.
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Pattern-chaser
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Re: Is There Really An Equal Amount Of Good And Bad In Everything?

Post by Pattern-chaser »

Pattern-chaser wrote: December 18th, 2020, 11:24 am Some thing are mainly good, and others mainly bad. A few things may be equally good and bad, but this is far from the norm.
I think perhaps most things are neither good nor bad, but are pretty much independent of them both. Most things just are as they are. (I say this without meaning or implying that good and bad reside in the things; they don't, they reside in the minds of the humans making the judgement.)
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Re: Is There Really An Equal Amount Of Good And Bad In Everything?

Post by Jack D Ripper »

Steve3007 wrote: December 18th, 2020, 6:51 am Paul McCartney and Stevie Wonder certainly thought so. They even wrote a schmaltzy song about it.
I did not remember it that way, so I decided to look at the lyrics. What they say is:

"There is good and bad in everyone"

https://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/paulmcc ... ivory.html

There is absolutely no indication in that song that there are equal amounts of good and bad. So you should not accuse them of having such a stupid view.

Of course, it is never a good idea to trust a song to give you a proper view of things. Songwriters typically pay attention to rhyme and meter and select words that have an interesting sound to them. So it is not all about giving you instruction in life (as if the typical songwriter had any special information to give). Plus, you are not going to get much information in a three or four minute song.

To those who say that there is an equal amount of good and bad in everything, I say, prove it. On its face, it just seems silly and absurd.
"A wise man ... proportions his belief to the evidence." - David Hume
impermanence
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Re: Is There Really An Equal Amount Of Good And Bad In Everything?

Post by impermanence »

Jack D Ripper wrote: December 18th, 2020, 12:38 pm There is absolutely no indication in that song that there are equal amounts of good and bad. So you should not accuse them of having such a stupid view.
Jack, I am not really interested in your feelings [especially such a passive-aggressive expression], only thoughts you may have regarding the argument.
To those who say that there is an equal amount of good and bad in everything, I say, prove it. On its face, it just seems silly and absurd.
Prove it? Anybody can prove anything if you understand how thinking works. :)

Again, the idea is that if good gives rise to bad, and bad gives rise to good, then they must do this proportionally. If you do not accept the premise, then that's another discussion altogether.

Look at your own life and tell me if some of the worst things that happened to you did not end up being the best lessons. Does anybody really learn anything when things go really well? But when they go awry, then there is a great lesson at every turn. This is the good because I am sure you will agree that a insatiable thirst for learning [and its application] is essential in developing success in life.
impermanence
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Re: Is There Really An Equal Amount Of Good And Bad In Everything?

Post by impermanence »

Pattern-chaser wrote: December 18th, 2020, 11:24 am Good and bad give meaning to one another, like light and dark, so I think it is right to say that nothing is wholly one or the other. But "an equal amount of good and bad in everything"? No. It is untrue, as we can see when we observe the world around us. Some thing are mainly good, and others mainly bad. A few things may be equally good and bad, but this is far from the norm.
We make good and bad. If we make 50 units of good, then each unit must be balanced by a unit of bad [otherwise, how would it be good?]. This is how the duality works. If you create light, you have created dark, as well.

IOW, what you are perceiving at any moment is not the entire reality of the Universe, instead, it's only a tiny bit of your own. You must open yourself up to the idea that all things are occurring at the same time [it's just a matter of where you happen to be and what you are paying attention to that gives rise to the notion that "only this" is true.
baker
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Re: Is There Really An Equal Amount Of Good And Bad In Everything?

Post by baker »

impermanence wrote: December 18th, 2020, 2:40 pmWe make good and bad. If we make 50 units of good, then each unit must be balanced by a unit of bad [otherwise, how would it be good?]. This is how the duality works. If you create light, you have created dark, as well.
So how does that work in practice? For example, when raising a child, that means one hug -- one slap?
impermanence
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Re: Is There Really An Equal Amount Of Good And Bad In Everything?

Post by impermanence »

baker wrote: December 18th, 2020, 4:16 pm
impermanence wrote: December 18th, 2020, 2:40 pmWe make good and bad. If we make 50 units of good, then each unit must be balanced by a unit of bad [otherwise, how would it be good?]. This is how the duality works. If you create light, you have created dark, as well.
So how does that work in practice? For example, when raising a child, that means one hug -- one slap?
Unless you always know the consequences of your actions, it's hard to say. Sometimes a hug might not send the "right" message. For example, look at how weak younger people can be because of their coddled up--bringing.
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