The NON-TRUTHS of Our Current Covid-19 Policy

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RJG
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Re: The NON-TRUTHS of Our Current Covid-19 Policy

Post by RJG »

Terrapin Station wrote:So wear a mask if you don't want to be a jackass.
RJG wrote: ...including immune people?
Terrapin Station wrote:Yes, including immune people.
So you don't believe the following?:

1. Herd immunity is the ONLY solution to stop this virus.
2. Herd immunity requires immune people to participate (mix into a group of vulnerable people) to give a protective effect to the vulnerable people.

Question: And if we don't implement herd immunity, then does the virus slow down, or does it continue to grow and mutate until we do decide to implement herd immunity?

Scott Atlas said it best - "If herd immunity is our only solution, then we should put our foot on the accelerator", - for the longer we wait, there will be less of us healthy people to implement herd immunity.
Belindi
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Re: The NON-TRUTHS of Our Current Covid-19 Policy

Post by Belindi »

RJG wrote:
Question: And if we don't implement herd immunity, then does the virus slow down, or does it continue to grow and mutate until we do decide to implement herd immunity?
Coronavirus is opportunistic like all pathogens. Zero infectivity will happen when we have sufficient firebreaks, and we do not have to be so heroic as to burn most of the forest down.
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RJG
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Re: The NON-TRUTHS of Our Current Covid-19 Policy

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Belindi" wrote:...and we do not have to be so heroic as to burn most of the forest down.
Belindi, contrary to popular indoctrination, there is no "burning most of the forest down" with strategic herd immunity. Remember, healthy people, in general, don't die from covid. Strategic herd immunity allows only the 'healthy' population to participate in herd immunity, not the vulnerable!
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Re: The NON-TRUTHS of Our Current Covid-19 Policy

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RJG wrote: February 5th, 2021, 2:03 pm
Belindi" wrote:...and we do not have to be so heroic as to burn most of the forest down.
Belindi, contrary to popular indoctrination, there is no "burning most of the forest down" with strategic herd immunity. Remember, healthy people, in general, don't die from covid. Strategic herd immunity allows only the 'healthy' population to participate in herd immunity, not the vulnerable!
Most people are not living healthy lives. And so to socialist politics.
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RJG
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Re: The NON-TRUTHS of Our Current Covid-19 Policy

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Belindi, right now we have a very large group of healthy school age kids and young adults that could have a massive positive protective effect on our vulnerable population if only we would allow them to unmask and socialize.

Otherwise, we are intentionally preventing the ONLY solution to the problem. ...we can’t "hide" our way from this problem. Hiding (social distancing) only enables the virus to grow and continue to mutate. If we think we have it bad now, why do we think doing more of the same will dictate different results?

How's social distancing (of healthy people) working for us? ...it's not, it only makes a bad situation much worse. ...the sooner we pull our heads out of the sand, the sooner we can start saving ourselves.
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Re: The NON-TRUTHS of Our Current Covid-19 Policy

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RJG wrote: February 5th, 2021, 2:38 pm Belindi, right now we have a very large group of healthy school age kids and young adults that could have a massive positive protective effect on our vulnerable population if only we would allow them to unmask and socialize.

Otherwise, we are intentionally preventing the ONLY solution to the problem. ...we can’t "hide" our way from this problem. Hiding (social distancing) only enables the virus to grow and continue to mutate. If we think we have it bad now, why do we think doing more of the same will dictate different results?

How's social distancing (of healthy people) working for us? ...it's not, it only makes a bad situation much worse. ...the sooner we pull our heads out of the sand, the sooner we can start saving ourselves.

"We" ? "Ourselves" ? Most of the world's people live in poverty. Do you want to isolate the rich from the people outside the gated compound? Would the virus comply?
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Re: The NON-TRUTHS of Our Current Covid-19 Policy

Post by Terrapin Station »

RJG wrote: February 5th, 2021, 1:47 pm
Terrapin Station wrote:So wear a mask if you don't want to be a jackass.
RJG wrote: ...including immune people?
Terrapin Station wrote:Yes, including immune people.
So you don't believe the following?:

1. Herd immunity is the ONLY solution to stop this virus.
2. Herd immunity requires immune people to participate (mix into a group of vulnerable people) to give a protective effect to the vulnerable people.
Yes for (1), but re (2) we need to proceed carefully when the mingling amounts to greatly increasing the chances that people will acquire a virus that kills them. (2) can work fairly quickly, assuming a relatively slow rate of new strains, which is a big assumption, but only at a cost of many more millions of people dying. To avoid that, we need to proceed with people wearing masks, distancing, etc. until far more people receive the vaccine.
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Re: The NON-TRUTHS of Our Current Covid-19 Policy

Post by Terrapin Station »

RJG wrote: February 5th, 2021, 2:03 pm
Belindi" wrote:...and we do not have to be so heroic as to burn most of the forest down.
Belindi, contrary to popular indoctrination, there is no "burning most of the forest down" with strategic herd immunity. Remember, healthy people, in general, don't die from covid. Strategic herd immunity allows only the 'healthy' population to participate in herd immunity, not the vulnerable!
Most people don't die from coronavirus, but so far at least 5% of the population does, and there's reason too believe that a larger percentage is going to have long-term health issues due to it. 5% of almost 8 billion people is too much in my opinion.

There's a way to avoid 8 billion people needing to get coronavirus. That way doesn't involve people running around indoors without masks.
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RJG
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Re: The NON-TRUTHS of Our Current Covid-19 Policy

Post by RJG »

Belindi wrote:"We" ? "Ourselves" ? Most of the world's people live in poverty. Do you want to isolate the rich from the people outside the gated compound? Would the virus comply?
Sorry Belindi, I don't know what you are talking about, or how you came to this from what I said. I never said or referred to rich or poor people. Can you clarify?
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RJG
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Re: The NON-TRUTHS of Our Current Covid-19 Policy

Post by RJG »

I think the best government policy to save the most amount people is to require:

1) stricter social distancing on those considered vulnerable, or most-at-risk (with the government providing a clear definition of what "vulnerable" means), and

2) make social distancing voluntary for those that are healthy (with the government again providing a clear definition of what "healthy" means).

This will get us quickly to the path of herd immunity, with minimal risk to our vulnerable population.

Treating these different groups of people the same, only makes matter worse. It is insufficient for vulnerable people, and it prevents any protective effect (to the vulnerable) that we would normally otherwise get if we allowed healthy people to participate in achieving herd immunity.
Belindi
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Re: The NON-TRUTHS of Our Current Covid-19 Policy

Post by Belindi »

RJG wrote: February 5th, 2021, 4:18 pm
Belindi wrote:"We" ? "Ourselves" ? Most of the world's people live in poverty. Do you want to isolate the rich from the people outside the gated compound? Would the virus comply?
Sorry Belindi, I don't know what you are talking about, or how you came to this from what I said. I never said or referred to rich or poor people. Can you clarify?
I can hardly believe you do not know that covid-19 is a disease of poverty.
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Re: The NON-TRUTHS of Our Current Covid-19 Policy

Post by Pattern-chaser »

RJG wrote: February 5th, 2021, 1:36 pm go check out and compare the deaths-per-capita of USA (with strict social distancing) with Sweden (with no social distancing). Also notice the actual deaths - Sweden has virtually no more covid deaths, while good old USA are still increasing the killing of our own people by implementing the false notion that social distancing our healthy population saves lives.

Sweden has had 584,674 cases, and 12,028 deaths, which corresponds to 118.12 deaths per 100,000 population.
The US has had 26,676,957 cases, and 455,738 deaths, which corresponds to 139.30 deaths per 100,000 population.

[ Source of information: Wikipedia ]

The two countries are roughly comparable, and very much worse than the countries who have implemented policies that work.
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RJG
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Re: The NON-TRUTHS of Our Current Covid-19 Policy

Post by RJG »

EVERYONE, let's move this discussion over to "Part 2 - Will Continued Social Distancing Ultimately Destroy All Human Life on this Planet?" so as to minimize all the redundancy. Thanks!
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