The Importance of Defining Terms

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sonofag
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The Importance of Defining Terms

Post by sonofag »

"If you wish to converse with me, define your terms." ― Voltaire

In recent discussion with a friend, I had insisted that they provide a working definition of 'fascism', to which they replied:
Enough with your define the term BS. It's a complex historical/societal concept. We aren't going anywhere with some dictionary definition.
Where to go from here?
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Sy Borg
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Re: The Importance of Defining Terms

Post by Sy Borg »

There's much decent information on the web about fascism, for instance:

https://www.openculture.com/2016/11/umb ... scism.html

1. The cult of tradition. “One has only to look at the syllabus of every fascist movement to find the major traditionalist thinkers. The Nazi gnosis was nourished by traditionalist, syncretistic, occult elements.”

2. The rejection of modernism. “The Enlightenment, the Age of Reason, is seen as the beginning of modern depravity. In this sense Ur-Fascism can be defined as irrationalism.”

3. The cult of action for action’s sake. “Action being beautiful in itself, it must be taken before, or without, any previous reflection. Thinking is a form of emasculation.”

4. Disagreement is treason. “The critical spirit makes distinctions, and to distinguish is a sign of modernism. In modern culture the scientific community praises disagreement as a way to improve knowledge.”

5. Fear of difference. “The first appeal of a fascist or prematurely fascist movement is an appeal against the intruders. Thus Ur-Fascism is racist by definition.”

6. Appeal to social frustration. “One of the most typical features of the historical fascism was the appeal to a frustrated middle class, a class suffering from an economic crisis or feelings of political humiliation, and frightened by the pressure of lower social groups.”

7. The obsession with a plot. “Thus at the root of the Ur-Fascist psychology there is the obsession with a plot, possibly an international one. The followers must feel besieged.”

8. The enemy is both strong and weak. “By a continuous shifting of rhetorical focus, the enemies are at the same time too strong and too weak.”
Pacifism is trafficking with the enemy. “For Ur-Fascism there is no struggle for life but, rather, life is lived for struggle.”

9. Contempt for the weak. “Elitism is a typical aspect of any reactionary ideology.”

10. Everybody is educated to become a hero. “In Ur-Fascist ideology, heroism is the norm. This cult of heroism is strictly linked with the cult of death.”

11. Machismo and weaponry. “Machismo implies both disdain for women and intolerance and condemnation of nonstandard sexual habits, from chastity to homosexuality.”

12. Selective populism. “There is in our future a TV or Internet populism, in which the emotional response of a selected group of citizens can be presented and accepted as the Voice of the People.”

13. Ur-Fascism speaks Newspeak. “All the Nazi or Fascist schoolbooks made use of an impoverished vocabulary, and an elementary syntax, in order to limit the instruments for complex and critical reasoning.”

... and this one:

https://www.thebalance.com/fascism-defi ... ns-4145419

1. Usurpation: The state overtakes and merges with corporate power and sometimes the church. (as per #1 and #2 above)

2. Nationalism: Leaders appeal to a nostalgic wish to return to an earlier golden age. That can include a return to a simple, virtuous pastoral life. (as per #5 & 6 above)

3. Militarism: Leaders glorify military strength through propaganda. (as per #3 and #11)

4. Father figure: A leader assumes the role of the father of the nation. He creates a cult status as a "dauntless ruler beholden to no one." (also #11)

5. Mass appeal: A leader claims that the people, manifested as the state, can achieve anything. If they don't succeed, it's because of naysayers, minority groups, and saboteurs. (#12 and #13)

6. Government surveillance: The government takes an active role in suppressing dissent. It rewards people who report on each other. (#4 above)

7. Persecution: The state violently persecutes minority groups and opponents. (#5 and #9)
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Spiral Out
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Re: The Importance of Defining Terms

Post by Spiral Out »

If they can't, or won't, define their terms, useful and productive discussion is not possible, and it would seem that they aren't looking to achieve that anyway.
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LuckyR
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Re: The Importance of Defining Terms

Post by LuckyR »

sonofag wrote: February 5th, 2021, 9:13 pm "If you wish to converse with me, define your terms." ― Voltaire

In recent discussion with a friend, I had insisted that they provide a working definition of 'fascism', to which they replied:
Enough with your define the term BS. It's a complex historical/societal concept. We aren't going anywhere with some dictionary definition.
Where to go from here?
Oh that's easy. Say: " my definition of fascism is X, what's yours?"
"As usual... it depends."
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Pattern-chaser
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Re: The Importance of Defining Terms

Post by Pattern-chaser »

sonofag wrote: February 5th, 2021, 9:13 pm "If you wish to converse with me, define your terms." ― Voltaire

In recent discussion with a friend, I had insisted that they provide a working definition of 'fascism', to which they replied:
Enough with your define the term BS. It's a complex historical/societal concept. We aren't going anywhere with some dictionary definition.
Where to go from here?
We do need to understand each other, especially here, on a philosophy forum, where we sometimes push language to its communicational limits, and beyond. Dictionary definitions are often only starting points; they are definitely not always the authoritative and fixed description of meaning that would be so convenient for us. But if I should stray too far from the dictionary definition of a word, it's only fair that I should clearly state to my fellow philosophers what I mean by it. How else might they discuss with me?

So I agree with your friend that dictionary definitions often leave something to be desired, but also that we should all be willing to define the terms we use, if we use them in a non-standard way. I would add to this that 'rules' and 'laws' about who should, or should not, define terms are counter-productive. Discussion is a group exercise; it is (or should be) co-operative in nature. So anyone using a term in a non-standard way would normally define the term without being asked, to promote clarity of discussion. Debate-fascists should probably be avoided? 😉
Pattern-chaser

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Thomyum2
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Re: The Importance of Defining Terms

Post by Thomyum2 »

sonofag wrote: February 5th, 2021, 9:13 pm "If you wish to converse with me, define your terms." ― Voltaire

In recent discussion with a friend, I had insisted that they provide a working definition of 'fascism', to which they replied:
Enough with your define the term BS. It's a complex historical/societal concept. We aren't going anywhere with some dictionary definition.
Where to go from here?
I agree with Voltaire - a meaningful discussion requires that definitions of the terms used be mutual understood.

That said, it's not always necessary to explicitly spell out definitions in order to accomplish this. You can often infer the definition a person is working with from the context in which the word is used, or by asking clarifying questions or requesting examples. This could get you over the obstacle of your friend's unwillingness to put forth a definition up front. This can also actually be a very revealing exercise as you will probably find that the person (and maybe you as well) could have multiple definitions and be using the word to describe different things at different times. Good luck with this!
“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.”
— Epictetus
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