Objective Morality and God

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Pattern-chaser
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Re: Objective Morality and God

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Sy Borg wrote: March 16th, 2021, 9:34 pm I think of it like ripples in an ocean. If a boulder topples down a cliff into the ocean, its ripples will only go a certain distance before being dissipated by other waves. So the boulder's waves are causally disconnected from most of an ocean. I think of space similarly - a huge field with waves everywhere - criss-crossing, swamping, boosting, cancelling etc. Really, a case could be made for the arena of human thought having similar dynamics.
Yes, I agree with this ... except maybe with some of your conclusions. Once ripples have been established, they never dissipate, but only reduce in amplitude, never reaching zero. The wave (ripple) never disappears.

In its early stages, when a ripple is at its strongest, it interacts with other ripples most obviously. But these interactions continue forever, at ever-lower (but non-zero) amplitudes.

So yes, I think of space as "a huge field with waves everywhere - criss-crossing, swamping, boosting, cancelling etc." But they never dissipate fully. As a ripple progresses, it interacts with all the other ripples, affecting them and thereby the whole. And, in this way, it leaves its effect(s) behind. In fact, it's sort-of true to say that ripples are immortal, in the way I have just described.

A case could be made for comparing this with the impact individual human lives have, during their own tenure here, on life, the universe and everything. And perhaps human thought shares some of these dynamics too, as you suggest. The holistic perspective rears its ugly head all over the place, don't you think? 😉
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Re: Objective Morality and God

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Pattern-chaser wrote: March 17th, 2021, 9:17 am
Sy Borg wrote: March 16th, 2021, 9:34 pm I think of it like ripples in an ocean. If a boulder topples down a cliff into the ocean, its ripples will only go a certain distance before being dissipated by other waves. So the boulder's waves are causally disconnected from most of an ocean. I think of space similarly - a huge field with waves everywhere - criss-crossing, swamping, boosting, cancelling etc. Really, a case could be made for the arena of human thought having similar dynamics.
Yes, I agree with this ... except maybe with some of your conclusions. Once ripples have been established, they never dissipate, but only reduce in amplitude, never reaching zero. The wave (ripple) never disappears.
Consider the fate of a ripple caused by a single microscopic plankton swimming around in Mururoa Atoll in 1970 just before the French conducted a nuclear bomb test there. It's hard to imagine what might remain of those prior ripples after the blast. Maybe there's something at Planck scale, given that time does not impact at that most fundamental scale, but that is speculative.

Pattern-chaser wrote: March 17th, 2021, 9:17 amAs a ripple progresses, it interacts with all the other ripples, affecting them and thereby the whole. And, in this way, it leaves its effect(s) behind. In fact, it's sort-of true to say that ripples are immortal, in the way I have just described.
As above.

Pattern-chaser wrote: March 17th, 2021, 9:17 amA case could be made for comparing this with the impact individual human lives have, during their own tenure here, on life, the universe and everything. And perhaps human thought shares some of these dynamics too, as you suggest. The holistic perspective rears its ugly head all over the place, don't you think? 😉
Oh yes, the analogy between ripples and our lives did not escape me. All those times standing on a jetty down the road watching bands of ripples interacting. As with everything, the big ones consume the smaller ones. But smaller ripples running the opposite direction somewhat cancels larger ripples, reducing their amplitude, as though they had eaten a toxin. Or you have ripples building to waves to tidal waves, which is akin to a major societal movement or event.

As you noted, metaphors abound in nature. All fields are basically doing the same thing - always morphing, always pushing towards equilibria, always being impacted by surrounding arenas. With chaos, and depending on how close to equilibrium they are, a field may tend towards either aggregations or dissipation. Seemingly, in the end everything is expected to dissipate, but evolution (and what may yet follow biological evolution) may yet have a say in that in the distant future.
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Re: Objective Morality and God

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I am certain in my thought process and understanding that all the massive diversity of thoughts and opinions regarding God and morality stem from one simple fact---no one before me has ever defined the essence of God. Therefore everyone's god is different. Each god represents the sum total of each person's imagination. Since the time Homo Sapiens first appeared on earth, there have billions and billions of people, and all with their individual god. The net result is war---people have been fighting to justify their gods throughout recorded history---and they still are. Just look at the world today---perpetual war and threats of war. I did, in fact, define God's essence. God is a Perfect Rational being. I believe that definition is irrefutable. That Perfect Rationality is readily seen and understood through the perfection in both form and function of each particle of energy of which all gravid existences are composed. Once God imagined those particles with his Perfect Intellect and chose (loved, accepted, branded, activated) them with his Perfect Will (the Holy Spirit), he has taken a total 'hands off' position. They have been doing their assigned task perfectly for nearly fourteen billion years, and always in perfect and unchanging manner. Furthermore, they will continue to do so until 'recalled' an estimated seventy five billion years from now. Some people call the process of change that has been observed in the universe 'evolution"---I prefer to think of it as 'God's continuing creation". Since all such particles, known collectively as quanta, are perfect in both form and function and are unchanging and unchangeable, they exist in state known as Eternity---God exists in Eternity. Therefore, I believe they are God---God is in everything or it could not exist.
My thesis is simply this: minus an essential definition of God, all morality becomes a matter of individual imagination. Many institutions have imposed a morality based on their understandings and imaginations of their god. I believe the only way to have 'like-mindedness about morality, which would bring peace and consolation to all, is for all to be like-minded about the 'essence of God'---God is Perfect Rationality.
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Re: Objective Morality and God

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"Perfect" and "rational" are human concepts. Ordered Necessity that creates what happens is not reducible to any set of attributes. Ordered Necessity will be after any ideas of "perfect" or "rational" have passed away.
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Re: Objective Morality and God

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hlhunt33 wrote: April 20th, 2021, 9:30 am ...no one before me has ever defined the essence of God.

Many have tried, I think, and many of them are convinced they have succeeded, as you are. You have gone a little farther than most, though. You assert that no one before you has succeeded in expressing the One and Only Truth that you alone hold. Wow.
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Re: Objective Morality and God

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Pattern-chaser wrote: April 21st, 2021, 7:50 am
hlhunt33 wrote: April 20th, 2021, 9:30 am ...no one before me has ever defined the essence of God.

Many have tried, I think, and many of them are convinced they have succeeded, as you are. You have gone a little farther than most, though. You assert that no one before you has succeeded in expressing the One and Only Truth that you alone hold. Wow.
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