Is the human race worthy to survive and prosper?

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Is the human race worthy to survive and prosper?

Post by gad-fly »

I pose this question in the present tense, not historically, not beyond the short foreseeable future. I hope not to receive narcistic reply on personal experience in life, and so on, but rather, philosophical ponderance on the relative relevance of our race as against other animal and plant races. What are we doing as to make us stand out and be irreplaceable? What damage have we done as pest, such as bringing along climate change? To sum up, is it worth keeping us on this earth?

I could pose the question more bluntly: Are we earning our keep? Excuse my audacity if I am asking this question on behalf of Mother Earth. I presume initially she welcomed us like every other creature into her domain. I like to think she welcomed us more, which may be beside the point. Lion, zebra, wildebeest, she made no distinction. Nor did she care about peace between predator and prey. She thought she can keep the balance. More wildebeest, more lions, in the proper ratio. Nature controls the balance. She may call it the paradise, or the Garden of Eden.

But she was wrong. We can turn, and indeed we have turned, very much so, the balance in our favor. We are greedy. We do not care how much it cost to other species. Let them eat grass, as long we have not found a way to extract nutrition from grass yet. If so, we can still afford to be generous. They can have poison ivy, for all we care.

I propose not to answer categorically with strict Yes or No to the question: Should Mother Nature still retain us, or even congratulate us? Like beaver destroying trees and blocking streams, our destruction may also be creative, even as we only consider what benefits us. We destroy landscape, at the same time as we create landscape which we may feel better, though not always. The point, in essence, is whether we have gone too far? Should we ponder on what is the balance which, it appears, is what can only be determined by us?
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Re: Is the human race worthy to survive and prosper?

Post by Eckhart Aurelius Hughes »

Insofar as it makes sense to poetically personify nature or earth as Mother Nature or Mother Earth, or to call the universe or reality as a whole Parent or God, I see no reason to believe that Mother/Parent/God is not unconditionally loving, or at least unconditionally accepting.

In other words, it seems to me that, at worst, Earth/Nature/God/Reality/The-Universe could care less if humans survive or not.

In analogy, if one looks up and appreciated the beauty that is the clouds and sky with unconditional love, then one is not likely to say, "oh these clouds are awful; I wish they get out of the way to make room for better clouds". Of course, one is also not likely to say, "oh these are the best clouds ever, I hope they stay and no new clouds ever come." The same unconditional love, acceptance, or appreciation that glorifies something also humbles it. To the sky lover, any cloud will do. To nature, any pretty petal on the tree of life is presumably just as swell.
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Re: Is the human race worthy to survive and prosper?

Post by Count Lucanor »

Isn't it ironic that the only one that can weigh up the answers to that question is the human race itself?
The wise are instructed by reason, average minds by experience, the stupid by necessity and the brute by instinct.
― Marcus Tullius Cicero
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Re: Is the human race worthy to survive and prosper?

Post by NickGaspar »

gad-fly wrote: March 26th, 2021, 7:10 pm I pose this question in the present tense, not historically, not beyond the short foreseeable future. I hope not to receive narcistic reply on personal experience in life, and so on, but rather, philosophical ponderance on the relative relevance of our race as against other animal and plant races. What are we doing as to make us stand out and be irreplaceable? What damage have we done as pest, such as bringing along climate change? To sum up, is it worth keeping us on this earth?

I could pose the question more bluntly: Are we earning our keep? Excuse my audacity if I am asking this question on behalf of Mother Earth. I presume initially she welcomed us like every other creature into her domain. I like to think she welcomed us more, which may be beside the point. Lion, zebra, wildebeest, she made no distinction. Nor did she care about peace between predator and prey. She thought she can keep the balance. More wildebeest, more lions, in the proper ratio. Nature controls the balance. She may call it the paradise, or the Garden of Eden.

But she was wrong. We can turn, and indeed we have turned, very much so, the balance in our favor. We are greedy. We do not care how much it cost to other species. Let them eat grass, as long we have not found a way to extract nutrition from grass yet. If so, we can still afford to be generous. They can have poison ivy, for all we care.

I propose not to answer categorically with strict Yes or No to the question: Should Mother Nature still retain us, or even congratulate us? Like beaver destroying trees and blocking streams, our destruction may also be creative, even as we only consider what benefits us. We destroy landscape, at the same time as we create landscape which we may feel better, though not always. The point, in essence, is whether we have gone too far? Should we ponder on what is the balance which, it appears, is what can only be determined by us?
You do understand that the term "human race" includes billions of individual with different behaviour and mentality. This question is way to general and vague to be meaningful.
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Re: Is the human race worthy to survive and prosper?

Post by gad-fly »

Scott wrote: March 26th, 2021, 8:27 pm
I see no reason to believe that Mother/Parent/God is not unconditionally loving, or at least unconditionally accepting.

In other words, it seems to me that, at worst, Earth/Nature/God/Reality/The-Universe could care less if humans survive or not.
I refer to "Mother Nature" as nature in the role of mother of all creatures big and small. Whether, who, and how she loves, if at all, is a different issue. We can see her tangible, flexible, vibrant, and open to change. We have no excuse to misunderstand her after millenniums of history, but especially with the advent of modern science. Granted our understanding of her to a good extent, it falls on us to establish what keeps her healthy and vibrant, which should be parallel with what keeps us healthy and vibrant. In this regard, we may ignore all other creatures if we are selfish enough, but we cannot ignore the bottom line: our own benefit.

That bottom line is what I would call "the balance". It is a line in the sand which we must draw now, before it is too late. How much further can our population grow, even if we can still justify further reduction of other species by plundering resources available to them? How much more pollution, like from plastic disposal, can we leave to Mother Nature to tackle with her limited capacity, before she is forced to throw the towel back to us?

Can you see that? It is not a matter of whether she loves us or not, or whether she loves one offspring more than another, like most mothers do. There can be a time when she would say, "Enough is enough." Perhaps it is high time for us to keep her away from saying that. Consider it to be the fee to be paid for insurance of our future. How far are we prepared to pay the fee?
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Re: Is the human race worthy to survive and prosper?

Post by Tegularius »

gad-fly wrote: March 26th, 2021, 7:10 pm The point, in essence, is whether we have gone too far? Should we ponder on what is the balance which, it appears, is what can only be determined by us?
The balancing - which doesn't imply going back to anything primeval or even where we were a hundred years ago - will certainly not be determined by us but nature itself. When that happens and already on course the lethal interactions between populations nationally and globally will expedite the process. It's not a question really whether the human race is worthy to survive and prosper if what it's doing is detrimental to its survival. If that's the case the whole human saga defaults to garbage in, garbage out. The universe and certainly not anything in it is invulnerable to deviations which destroys the core of what's holding it together.
The earth has a skin and that skin has diseases; one of its diseases is called man ... Nietzsche
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Re: Is the human race worthy to survive and prosper?

Post by LuckyR »

gad-fly wrote: March 26th, 2021, 7:10 pm I pose this question in the present tense, not historically, not beyond the short foreseeable future. I hope not to receive narcistic reply on personal experience in life, and so on, but rather, philosophical ponderance on the relative relevance of our race as against other animal and plant races. What are we doing as to make us stand out and be irreplaceable? What damage have we done as pest, such as bringing along climate change? To sum up, is it worth keeping us on this earth?

I could pose the question more bluntly: Are we earning our keep? Excuse my audacity if I am asking this question on behalf of Mother Earth. I presume initially she welcomed us like every other creature into her domain. I like to think she welcomed us more, which may be beside the point. Lion, zebra, wildebeest, she made no distinction. Nor did she care about peace between predator and prey. She thought she can keep the balance. More wildebeest, more lions, in the proper ratio. Nature controls the balance. She may call it the paradise, or the Garden of Eden.

But she was wrong. We can turn, and indeed we have turned, very much so, the balance in our favor. We are greedy. We do not care how much it cost to other species. Let them eat grass, as long we have not found a way to extract nutrition from grass yet. If so, we can still afford to be generous. They can have poison ivy, for all we care.

I propose not to answer categorically with strict Yes or No to the question: Should Mother Nature still retain us, or even congratulate us? Like beaver destroying trees and blocking streams, our destruction may also be creative, even as we only consider what benefits us. We destroy landscape, at the same time as we create landscape which we may feel better, though not always. The point, in essence, is whether we have gone too far? Should we ponder on what is the balance which, it appears, is what can only be determined by us?
I would dive deeper into this issue to verify that you are asking the right question, before I ponder potential answers to the one you posed.

Several facets to consider: every other species that has ever lived on this planet has given essentially no thought to the environment at large or other species in particular. The reason they didn't destroy the environment was due to their limited means, not because they have superior or purer motives, in fact as mentioned, we are the only species known that considers the well-being of other species and the environment in general. True, we don't alter our behavior to the point of not having destroyed some species and environments.

As to the earth as a whole, we have definitely altered the surface of the planet, which is a tiny fraction of it's entirety. But then again not as much as other previous species did. So we are notable, but not the worst player, thus it could be argued, we shouldn't be singled out for such judgment.

From a Philosophical standpoint, one could ask, in order for humans to be judged, there must be a more knowledgeable entity to pass this judgment. You alluded to Mother Nature, which is a great concept, but far from an actual judge.
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Re: Is the human race worthy to survive and prosper?

Post by Pattern-chaser »

gad-fly wrote: March 26th, 2021, 7:10 pm Are we earning our keep?

We live in this world with zillions of other living things. We share this world with them. From what Mother Nature makes available, we are each and all entitled to our share, but no more. Humans, however, practice capitalism in its most brutal sense, and take anything and everything they want, without constraint or thought for other creatures, who need some of those resources to survive.

Our current behaviour is as a plague species, like locusts, consuming - and thereby destroying - any and all resources we encounter. This does not contribute positively to any aspect of our global ecosystem. In terms of Mother Nature, it is difficult to see that we earn our keep, or even deserve to remain here.
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Re: Is the human race worthy to survive and prosper?

Post by Pattern-chaser »

Tegularius wrote: March 27th, 2021, 4:30 pm The balancing - which doesn't imply going back to anything primeval or even where we were a hundred years ago - will certainly not be determined by us but nature itself.

Ah, but that's the issue, isn't it? For other species, nature is able to moderate their behaviour if it gets excessive. But humans have overcome that ability of Nature, and we can (and do) take whatever we want, and do not allow Nature to stop us. Until our ecosystem actually collapses, there is no longer anything Nature can do to modify our behaviour.
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Re: Is the human race worthy to survive and prosper?

Post by Sculptor1 »

gad-fly wrote: March 26th, 2021, 7:10 pm I pose this question in the present tense, not historically, not beyond the short foreseeable future. I hope not to receive narcistic reply on personal experience in life, and so on, but rather, philosophical ponderance on the relative relevance of our race as against other animal and plant races. What are we doing as to make us stand out and be irreplaceable? What damage have we done as pest, such as bringing along climate change? To sum up, is it worth keeping us on this earth?
"Worthy" - by what metric?
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Re: Is the human race worthy to survive and prosper?

Post by Pattern-chaser »

gad-fly wrote: March 26th, 2021, 7:10 pm To sum up, is it worth keeping us on this earth?
Sculptor1 wrote: March 28th, 2021, 10:00 am "Worthy" - by what metric?

In fairness, gad-fly also offered several alternative constructions in clarification, such as "are we earning our keep?".
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Re: Is the human race worthy to survive and prosper?

Post by Sculptor1 »

Pattern-chaser wrote: March 28th, 2021, 10:04 am
gad-fly wrote: March 26th, 2021, 7:10 pm To sum up, is it worth keeping us on this earth?
Sculptor1 wrote: March 28th, 2021, 10:00 am "Worthy" - by what metric?

In fairness, gad-fly also offered several alternative constructions in clarification, such as "are we earning our keep?".
The question remains.
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Re: Is the human race worthy to survive and prosper?

Post by gad-fly »

LuckyR wrote: March 28th, 2021, 2:57 am
gad-fly wrote: March 26th, 2021, 7:10 pm I pose this question in the present tense, not historically, not beyond the short foreseeable future. I hope not to receive narcistic reply on personal experience in life, and so on, but rather, philosophical ponderance on the relative relevance of our race as against other animal and plant races. What are we doing as to make us stand out and be irreplaceable? What damage have we done as pest, such as bringing along climate change? To sum up, is it worth keeping us on this earth?

I could pose the question more bluntly: Are we earning our keep? Excuse my audacity if I am asking this question on behalf of Mother Earth. I presume initially she welcomed us like every other creature into her domain. I like to think she welcomed us more, which may be beside the point. Lion, zebra, wildebeest, she made no distinction. Nor did she care about peace between predator and prey. She thought she can keep the balance. More wildebeest, more lions, in the proper ratio. Nature controls the balance. She may call it the paradise, or the Garden of Eden.

But she was wrong. We can turn, and indeed we have turned, very much so, the balance in our favor. We are greedy. We do not care how much it cost to other species. Let them eat grass, as long we have not found a way to extract nutrition from grass yet. If so, we can still afford to be generous. They can have poison ivy, for all we care.

I propose not to answer categorically with strict Yes or No to the question: Should Mother Nature still retain us, or even congratulate us? Like beaver destroying trees and blocking streams, our destruction may also be creative, even as we only consider what benefits us. We destroy landscape, at the same time as we create landscape which we may feel better, though not always. The point, in essence, is whether we have gone too far? Should we ponder on what is the balance which, it appears, is what can only be determined by us?
I would dive deeper into this issue to verify that you are asking the right question, before I ponder potential answers to the one you posed.

Several facets to consider: every other species that has ever lived on this planet has given essentially no thought to the environment at large or other species in particular. The reason they didn't destroy the environment was due to their limited means, not because they have superior or purer motives, in fact as mentioned, we are the only species known that considers the well-being of other species and the environment in general. True, we don't alter our behavior to the point of not having destroyed some species and environments.

As to the earth as a whole, we have definitely altered the surface of the planet, which is a tiny fraction of it's entirety. But then again not as much as other previous species did. So we are notable, but not the worst player, thus it could be argued, we shouldn't be singled out for such judgment.

From a Philosophical standpoint, one could ask, in order for humans to be judged, there must be a more knowledgeable entity to pass this judgment. You alluded to Mother Nature, which is a great concept, but far from an actual judge.
The question in the title is existential, not judgmental, entertaining, and academic. Nor is the intention to compare and grade. "Locust is more pest than us, so why not leave us alone?" Good point, at least from your angle.

Some of us may prefer the comfort of living in a painted ship in a painted ocean; some may even enjoy the game of hide-and-seek, ever so often, but the reality is that we are in a rocking boat called Mother Nature. Some may say, "So what? The boat has never stopped rocking, from what I can remember." Some may even say, "Why blame us, when we are not the only pebble on the beach." All good points, except for one thing. When the boat called Mother Nature gets very sick, all creatures carried by her get sick too, unavoidably. With the boat rocking violently, some may even be thrown overboard. Would we be among those, like what dinosaur has experienced? The boat may yet stabilize, except without us.

It is a matter of self-interest, even if we do not give a damn to other species. We are the one causing the most rocking in the boat, and we can stabilize it while we can. Some of us may be trapped in wishful thinking. Mother Nature should and would tackle the problem because it is in her own interest. Not to worry, the boat would eventually stabilize. Fine, but what about us? Would we still be in the boat, or would we be drowned by then, because Mother Nature has concluded that we are worth retaining in the boat to survive and prosper. Some would believe that we shall hear the alarm bell from her in due course. In the meantime, enjoy our sweet dream. Some would chicken and shirk away: Not for me. I can only care for myself.

I am inclined to shout: Wake up. The alarm is loud and clear. We cannot afford to play the game of pretense any longer. One for all, even if not all for one. No excuse even if there is monkey business elsewhere.

In the final analysis, the question in the title should be posed by the human race, and responsive action should be taken by the human race, with you as a member. None can we pass the buck to. it is already late. I would say: very late.
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Re: Is the human race worthy to survive and prosper?

Post by LuckyR »

gad-fly wrote: March 28th, 2021, 12:22 pm
LuckyR wrote: March 28th, 2021, 2:57 am
gad-fly wrote: March 26th, 2021, 7:10 pm I pose this question in the present tense, not historically, not beyond the short foreseeable future. I hope not to receive narcistic reply on personal experience in life, and so on, but rather, philosophical ponderance on the relative relevance of our race as against other animal and plant races. What are we doing as to make us stand out and be irreplaceable? What damage have we done as pest, such as bringing along climate change? To sum up, is it worth keeping us on this earth?

I could pose the question more bluntly: Are we earning our keep? Excuse my audacity if I am asking this question on behalf of Mother Earth. I presume initially she welcomed us like every other creature into her domain. I like to think she welcomed us more, which may be beside the point. Lion, zebra, wildebeest, she made no distinction. Nor did she care about peace between predator and prey. She thought she can keep the balance. More wildebeest, more lions, in the proper ratio. Nature controls the balance. She may call it the paradise, or the Garden of Eden.

But she was wrong. We can turn, and indeed we have turned, very much so, the balance in our favor. We are greedy. We do not care how much it cost to other species. Let them eat grass, as long we have not found a way to extract nutrition from grass yet. If so, we can still afford to be generous. They can have poison ivy, for all we care.

I propose not to answer categorically with strict Yes or No to the question: Should Mother Nature still retain us, or even congratulate us? Like beaver destroying trees and blocking streams, our destruction may also be creative, even as we only consider what benefits us. We destroy landscape, at the same time as we create landscape which we may feel better, though not always. The point, in essence, is whether we have gone too far? Should we ponder on what is the balance which, it appears, is what can only be determined by us?
I would dive deeper into this issue to verify that you are asking the right question, before I ponder potential answers to the one you posed.

Several facets to consider: every other species that has ever lived on this planet has given essentially no thought to the environment at large or other species in particular. The reason they didn't destroy the environment was due to their limited means, not because they have superior or purer motives, in fact as mentioned, we are the only species known that considers the well-being of other species and the environment in general. True, we don't alter our behavior to the point of not having destroyed some species and environments.

As to the earth as a whole, we have definitely altered the surface of the planet, which is a tiny fraction of it's entirety. But then again not as much as other previous species did. So we are notable, but not the worst player, thus it could be argued, we shouldn't be singled out for such judgment.

From a Philosophical standpoint, one could ask, in order for humans to be judged, there must be a more knowledgeable entity to pass this judgment. You alluded to Mother Nature, which is a great concept, but far from an actual judge.
The question in the title is existential, not judgmental, entertaining, and academic. Nor is the intention to compare and grade. "Locust is more pest than us, so why not leave us alone?" Good point, at least from your angle.

Some of us may prefer the comfort of living in a painted ship in a painted ocean; some may even enjoy the game of hide-and-seek, ever so often, but the reality is that we are in a rocking boat called Mother Nature. Some may say, "So what? The boat has never stopped rocking, from what I can remember." Some may even say, "Why blame us, when we are not the only pebble on the beach." All good points, except for one thing. When the boat called Mother Nature gets very sick, all creatures carried by her get sick too, unavoidably. With the boat rocking violently, some may even be thrown overboard. Would we be among those, like what dinosaur has experienced? The boat may yet stabilize, except without us.

It is a matter of self-interest, even if we do not give a damn to other species. We are the one causing the most rocking in the boat, and we can stabilize it while we can. Some of us may be trapped in wishful thinking. Mother Nature should and would tackle the problem because it is in her own interest. Not to worry, the boat would eventually stabilize. Fine, but what about us? Would we still be in the boat, or would we be drowned by then, because Mother Nature has concluded that we are worth retaining in the boat to survive and prosper. Some would believe that we shall hear the alarm bell from her in due course. In the meantime, enjoy our sweet dream. Some would chicken and shirk away: Not for me. I can only care for myself.

I am inclined to shout: Wake up. The alarm is loud and clear. We cannot afford to play the game of pretense any longer. One for all, even if not all for one. No excuse even if there is monkey business elsewhere.

In the final analysis, the question in the title should be posed by the human race, and responsive action should be taken by the human race, with you as a member. None can we pass the buck to. it is already late. I would say: very late.
Thanks for the clarification. So we are to answer as individual humans, ie from the individual human perspective. That, of course leaves Mother Nature (whatever that is) out of it. In that case, I share your concern, as many do. In addition I am aware that as only 0.0000000126% of the population, my ability to change the outcome is so limited as to make one wonder if ignoring the whole thing is not a reasonable statistical (and psychological) option.
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Re: Is the human race worthy to survive and prosper?

Post by gad-fly »

LuckyR wrote: March 28th, 2021, 1:51 pm Thanks for the clarification. So we are to answer as individual humans, ie from the individual human perspective. That, of course leaves Mother Nature (whatever that is) out of it. In that case, I share your concern, as many do. In addition I am aware that as only 0.0000000126% of the population, my ability to change the outcome is so limited as to make one wonder if ignoring the whole thing is not a reasonable statistical (and psychological) option.
No. You should answer as a member of the human race, not as an individual with your personal preference, story, and experience in life. This is a philosophy forum, not a census on likes and dislikes. Nor is it a movement meant to change the outcome. Sharing your ponderance is what I would anticipate and appreciate.

Put yourself in Mother Nature's place, or as someone she would consult. Let her say: this human race is rocking my boat, like very other creature that I am carrying. In principle, I am not against rock n' roll, but there is a balance of what is not tolerance. I may throw her overboard, and I usually give her some warning in advance. Why? When I have determined that she is worth her keep, as she makes me sick.
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by Sylvie Beljanski
July 2021

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream
by Dr Frank L Douglas
August 2021

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts
by Mark L. Wdowiak
September 2021

The Preppers Medical Handbook

The Preppers Medical Handbook
by Dr. William W Forgey M.D.
October 2021

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress: A Practical Guide

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress
by Dr. Gustavo Kinrys, MD
November 2021

Dream For Peace: An Ambassador Memoir

Dream For Peace
by Dr. Ghoulem Berrah
December 2021