Metaphysical Repression

[CalebB]

The questions being considered here are outside science. That's rather the point. These questions are speculative, they lack evidence, and they lack even the possibility that evidence could be obtained in the future. Science cannot address these issues. This is not a failure of science, or of life, the universe and everything; it just is.

Sure, the scientific method cannot be used to come to a clear conclusion about such metaphysical questions. If it could they would not be called metaphysical. However, what science can help us with is to bring together reliable background information that we can use when thinking about answers to our interesting questions.

If we are contemplating what the purpose of life is, it would shed light on the subject if we researched the available facts about evolution, biology, neuroscience, psychology, anthropology and whatever is related to life. Then we need to remember that science is free to change and keep an open mind about the metaphysical problems that science ignores.

[Pattern-chaser]

The diminished attention span leading to metaphysical repression is the primary reason why the young are so easily drawn to fantasy to protect themselves from the loss.

A diminished attention span also 'represses' other philosophical and scientific thinking. It is not the reason why metaphysics, in particular, is suppressed.

[Pattern-chaser]

If we are contemplating what the purpose of life is, it would shed light on the subject if we researched the available facts about evolution, biology, neuroscience, psychology, anthropology and whatever is related to life.

I suggest that would not contribute at all. The example you offer is the purpose of life, which is not illuminated by factual observations of life. Living things do not carry notices describing their purpose, so empirical observations offer nothing to a search for life's purpose.

When the subject of our thoughts is as 'metaphysical' as the purpose of life, science and its armoury of facts is useless. Science itself is not useless, of course; it is useless in this particular case.

[Nick_A]

The diminished attention span leading to metaphysical repression is the primary reason why the young are so easily drawn to fantasy to protect themselves from the loss.

A diminished attention span also 'represses' other philosophical and scientific thinking. It is not the reason why metaphysics, in particular, is suppressed.

To the contrary science is made possible by teaching focused attention on details forgetting about the questions of the heart. An intelligent rather than an indoctrinated person can do both. They can put facts into a conscious vertical perspective rather than an indoctrinated one. The hard thing is finding such people in the modern information age. Without their influence, society may not survive.

[Nick_A]

The diminished attention span leading to metaphysical repression is the primary reason why the young are so easily drawn to fantasy to protect themselves from the loss.

A diminished attention span also 'represses' other philosophical and scientific thinking. It is not the reason why metaphysics, in particular, is suppressed.

To the contrary science is made possible by teaching focused attention on details forgetting about the questions of the heart. An intelligent rather than an indoctrinated person can do both. They can put facts into a conscious vertical perspective rather than an indoctrinated one. The hard thing is finding such people in the modern information age. Without their influence, society may not survive.

The Beast or society in general is getting real for the ways of the Beast. It functions with other organic life on earth as creatures of reaction reacting to natural and cosmic influences. It is real for the Beast The Beast rejects and fears Man's conscious potential and awareness of its place in the universe which is why those like Jesus and Socrates had to be killed and their ideas devolved to serve the purposes of the Beast. This just assures that the the cycles for man on earth concluding with war and peace will continue as is. Since we are as we are, everything remains as it is.

[Pattern-chaser]

The diminished attention span leading to metaphysical repression is the primary reason why the young are so easily drawn to fantasy to protect themselves from the loss.

A diminished attention span also 'represses' other philosophical and scientific thinking. It is not the reason why metaphysics, in particular, is suppressed.

To the contrary science is made possible by teaching focused attention on details...

Exactly. The teaching of science includes focus, which will help to combat the diminishment of attention span. So, as I said, the diminished attention span makes all education difficult, whether it is science, philosophy, or linguistics. Thus it is unreasonable to conclude that a diminished attention span represses metaphysics any more than it represses philosophy in general, or science, or any demanding subject.

So what is it that you believe causes metaphysical repression?

[Nick_A]

The diminished attention span leading to metaphysical repression is the primary reason why the young are so easily drawn to fantasy to protect themselves from the loss.

A diminished attention span also 'represses' other philosophical and scientific thinking. It is not the reason why metaphysics, in particular, is suppressed.

To the contrary science is made possible by teaching focused attention on details...

Exactly. The teaching of science includes focus, which will help to combat the diminishment of attention span. So, as I said, the diminished attention span makes all education difficult, whether it is science, philosophy, or linguistics. Thus it is unreasonable to conclude that a diminished attention span represses metaphysics any more than it represses philosophy in general, or science, or any demanding subject.

So what is it that you believe causes metaphysical repression?

Metaphysical repression is the result of the loss of conscious attention which makes it possible to see the forest (wholeness) without being pulled down and obsessed with the trees (details)

Animal attention used by science is developed for its nature and designed to function by reacting to details. Human conscious attention adds the additional potential for experiencing wholeness along with details. Man is losing this ability by becoming absorbed in fragmentation. This is good for a dog but is a great loss for a Man with the need to become human by consciously expanding his attention to experience universal wholeness as a human being rather than losing it as a prisoner of Plato's cave attached to the shadows on the wall.

[Pattern-chaser]

So what is it that you believe causes metaphysical repression?

Metaphysical repression is the result of the loss of conscious attention...

OK, so metaphysical repression has exactly the same cause as philosophical repression and scientific repression too. In fact, it applies to any subject or discipline that requires considered, structured thought. So this topic is really about attention span, and has nothing (specifically) to do with metaphysics?

[Nick_A]

So what is it that you believe causes metaphysical repression?

Metaphysical repression is the result of the loss of conscious attention...

OK, so metaphysical repression has exactly the same cause as philosophical repression and scientific repression too. In fact, it applies to any subject or discipline that requires considered, structured thought. So this topic is really about attention span, and has nothing (specifically) to do with metaphysics?

No. Metaphysical repression is the opposite.

Metaphysics is the the branch of philosophy that deals with the first principles of things, including abstract concepts such as being, knowing, substance, cause, identity, time, and space.

The obsession with fragmentation denies the first cause or the purpose of metaphysics. Both wholeness and fragmentation require attention but of different qualities. Fragmentation requires developed fragmented animal attention while contemplating Plato's forms as a first cause requires conscious attention.

Consider the first great question of the heart: "Are we alone in the Universe? (Does God Exist?)"

Since animal attention cannot grasp the wholeness of the God idea its preference for the animal attention of fragmentation results in emotional denial

Bobby Fisher had a highly developed animal attention for the fragment of chess but lacked the higher quality of attention that is drawn to the first cause of metaphysics. The modern day obsession with specialization must result in metaphysical repression for the young.

Who can help the young with the first great question of the heart they are fortunate to feel when the world worships fragmentation? Who can introduce them to conscious as opposed to animal attention? Maybe it is better to kill the question and let the inner man die to keep the peace which is a typical secular belief..

[Pattern-chaser]

So what is it that you believe causes metaphysical repression?

Metaphysical repression is the result of the loss of conscious attention...

OK, so metaphysical repression has exactly the same cause as philosophical repression and scientific repression too. In fact, it applies to any subject or discipline that requires considered, structured thought. So this topic is really about attention span, and has nothing (specifically) to do with metaphysics?

No. Metaphysical repression is the opposite.

Metaphysics is the the branch of philosophy that deals with the first principles of things, including abstract concepts such as being, knowing, substance, cause, identity, time, and space....

Yes, I accept that you know what metaphysics is. But according to you, it is being repressed. I agree, but observe that philosopy, science, and all subjects that require considered thought are affected in exactly the same way. So the cause you propose for this repression is not specific to metaphysics at all. It is not "metaphysical repression" but simply the repression of any and all topics that require attention over hours, days and years, not just a few seconds. I repeat: it is the "repression" you describe - and the cause you ascribe to it - that I question.

[Nick_A]

So what is it that you believe causes metaphysical repression?

Metaphysical repression is the result of the loss of conscious attention...

OK, so metaphysical repression has exactly the same cause as philosophical repression and scientific repression too. In fact, it applies to any subject or discipline that requires considered, structured thought. So this topic is really about attention span, and has nothing (specifically) to do with metaphysics?

No. Metaphysical repression is the opposite.

Metaphysics is the the branch of philosophy that deals with the first principles of things, including abstract concepts such as being, knowing, substance, cause, identity, time, and space....

Yes, I accept that you know what metaphysics is. But according to you, it is being repressed. I agree, but observe that philosopy, science, and all subjects that require considered thought are affected in exactly the same way. So the cause you propose for this repression is not specific to metaphysics at all. It is not "metaphysical repression" but simply the repression of any and all topics that require attention over hours, days and years, not just a few seconds. I repeat: it is the "repression" you describe - and the cause you ascribe to it - that I question.

Science requires dualistic animal attention while metaphysical contemplation or the contemplation of wholeness requires human attention. It seeks to reconcile the oppositions of fragmented attention.

“When a contradiction is impossible to resolve except by a lie, then we know that it is really a door.” Simone Weil

A person doesn't find the door the heart is attracted to by arguing parts the personality is attracted to. It leads to metaphysical repression.

[Pattern-chaser]

Science requires dualistic animal attention while metaphysical contemplation or the contemplation of wholeness requires human attention. It seeks to reconcile the oppositions of fragmented attention.

“When a contradiction is impossible to resolve except by a lie, then we know that it is really a door.” Simone Weil

A person doesn't find the door the heart is attracted to by arguing parts the personality is attracted to. It leads to metaphysical repression.

Once again, I think I have identified your core topic. I may be wrong again, but let's see.

It looks as though your main complaint is the lack of attention given to metaphysics, what you call the questions of the heart. I share your disappointment, if this is so. But I think attention span is a tiny detail, and the main issue is the scarcity and unpopularity of structured and considered thought. Metaphysics embraces the difficult issues. The really difficult issues, the ones outside the purview of science.

The scientific problems are difficult enough, don't misunderstand me to say they are simple; they're not. But the ones that really place demands on our grey matter are the metaphysical ones. They lack the features of issues that can be addressed formally by science. The primary lack is that of evidence, but I don't think it stops there. These difficult problems do not recommend themselves to any simple kind of analysis or approach.

1. Are we alone in the Universe? (Does God Exist?)

2. Who am I?

3. Why do we live?

4. Why do we suffer?

5. Is death the end?

6. Why is there evil?

7. What can we hope for?

8. What can we know?

9. What ought we to do?

10. How should we live?

The only reason we pursue such questions is that they appeal to our curiosity. There is no one approach that I can see that would enable us to deal with them all. But some few of us do approach these questions, and think about them. For such questions, the greatest benefit they give us is the journey of discovery, which is just as well since we rarely reach the destination: these questions are all but unanswerable!

But your complaint is that people are somehow influenced away from these questions, and the type of thinking required to consider them. I think the plain truth is that not many of us are interested enough to indulge in this type of thinking, to teach ourselves how to think in this way. I don't think attention span is anything more than a contributing detail; the issues are much bigger, and more fundamental, than this.

It is true that most people are interested in the questions of the heart, but most simply absorb answers from other people, the media, and so on, without giving them any thought themselves. This is pretty typical human behaviour, and is not limited to metaphysics. It's like reading, but more specialised. I used to think that people who didn't read much were stupid, but it was me that was stupid. People of all levels of intelligence read, and do not read. It doesn't seem to be about intelligence, only enjoyment. Those who enjoy reading do it a lot, the rest of us don't bother. I think this is the same with metaphysics. What do you think?

[Nick_A]

Hello Pattern-Chaser

It looks as though your main complaint is the lack of attention given to metaphysics, what you call the questions of the heart. I share your disappointment, if this is so. But I think attention span is a tiny detail, and the main issue is the scarcity and unpopularity of structured and considered thought. Metaphysics embraces the difficult issues. The really difficult issues, the ones outside the purview of science.

I appreciate that you are trying to understand where I’m coming from but you still haven’t got it. Einstein understood and may help clarify this

1930
"Many people think that the progress of the human race is based on experiences of an empirical, critical nature, but I say that true knowledge is to be had only through a philosophy of deduction. For it is intuition that improves the world, not just following the trodden path of thought. Intuition makes us look at unrelated facts and then think about them until they can all be brought under one law. To look for related facts means holding onto what one has instead of searching for new facts. Intuition is the father of new knowledge, while empiricism is nothing but an accumulation of old knowledge. Intuition, not intellect, is the ‘open sesame’ of yourself." -- Albert Einstein, in Einstein and the Poet – In Search of the Cosmic Man by William Hermanns (Branden Press, 1983, p. 16.), conversation March 4, 1930

Making the young more involved with and identifying with structured and considered thought or the trodden path of thought prevents what Plato called remembering what has been forgotten or the source of intuition. The young lose their power of intuition as they become lost in fragmentation or the shadows on the wall. There is no incentive to develop conscious attention revealing wholeness when the power of attention is held captive by obsessions with details.

The only reason we pursue such questions is that they appeal to our curiosity. There is no one approach that I can see that would enable us to deal with them all. But some few of us do approach these questions, and think about them. For such questions, the greatest benefit they give us is the journey of discovery, which is just as well since we rarely reach the destination: these questions are all but unanswerable!

The questions raised by science appeal to our curiosity but the questions of the heart when beyond curiousity serve the needs of the heart. Curiousity is important but isn’t a need.

But your complaint is that people are somehow influenced away from these questions, and the type of thinking required to consider them. I think the plain truth is that not many of us are interested enough to indulge in this type of thinking, to teach ourselves how to think in this way. I don't think attention span is anything more than a contributing detail; the issues are much bigger, and more fundamental, than this.

Yes. society is no longer concerned with the need for truth but has replaced it with the desire for pleasure. Religion has become secularized and philosophy has become trivialized into arguing details. It has lost its purpose as the love of wisdom which requires opening to the big picture so can only be helped by rare individuals who have experienced understanding.

So who is left to serve the heart felt needs of the young now that religion and philosophy have lost its purpose? Is it any wonder that they turn to drugs in Plato’s cave when they cannot feel the attraction to truth or objective human meaning?

[Pattern-chaser]

I appreciate that you are trying to understand where I’m coming from but you still haven’t got it. Einstein understood and may help clarify this

1930
"Many people think that the progress of the human race is based on experiences of an empirical, critical nature, but I say that true knowledge is to be had only through a philosophy of deduction. For it is intuition that improves the world, not just following the trodden path of thought. Intuition makes us look at unrelated facts and then think about them until they can all be brought under one law. To look for related facts means holding onto what one has instead of searching for new facts. Intuition is the father of new knowledge, while empiricism is nothing but an accumulation of old knowledge. Intuition, not intellect, is the ‘open sesame’ of yourself." -- Albert Einstein, in Einstein and the Poet – In Search of the Cosmic Man by William Hermanns (Branden Press, 1983, p. 16.), conversation March 4, 1930

Making the young more involved with and identifying with structured and considered thought or the trodden path of thought prevents what Plato called remembering what has been forgotten or the source of intuition. The young lose their power of intuition as they become lost in fragmentation or the shadows on the wall. There is no incentive to develop conscious attention revealing wholeness when the power of attention is held captive by obsessions with details.

To me, this isn't talking about intuition, it's about creativity and imagination (within which intuition plays a key role, of course). It's about realising that there is art at the very heart of science, the art of creativity. Getting new ideas; linking existing ideas together in new ways (as Einstein describes); inventing a radical new experiment; and so on.

Things like this, and flexible thinking, and all kinds of stuff like that have always attracted me, and you too, it seems. But the simple truth is that this kind of thinking is not popular. I imagine there are many reasons for this; I can guess what they might be, but I don't actually know. AFAIK, there is no way to "make" the young develop (or retain?) creative faculties. I think that's a shame, but I suspect there is no remedy for it. Only those few who are interested will pursue these issues.

[Nick_A]

Pattern Chaser

To me, this isn't talking about intuition, it's about creativity and imagination (within which intuition plays a key role, of course). It's about realising that there is art at the very heart of science, the art of creativity. Getting new ideas; linking existing ideas together in new ways (as Einstein describes); inventing a radical new experiment; and so on.

Do you define creative art as something new or as I do as an aid in helping man to remember what has been forgotten?

I agree remembrance cannot be forced on the young. It is a natural desire that has been repressed. Who can help them to remember what has been forgotten at the depths of their being rather than getting lost in creative imagination?

"If men learn this, it will implant forgetfulness in their souls; they will cease to exercise memory because they rely on that which is written, calling things to remembrance no longer from within themselves, but by means of external marks. What you have discovered is a recipe not for memory, but for reminder. And it is no true wisdom that you offer your disciples, but only its semblance, for by telling them of many things without teaching them you will make them seem to know much, while for the most part they know nothing, and as men filled, not with wisdom, but with the conceit of wisdom, they will be a burden to their fellows." ― Plato, Phaedrus.

Creative modern art serves as a reminder but prevents the natural need to remember.

Creative imagination sells. It is the essence of advertising. But what does it help a person to remember? What does creativity mean to you? What is its value?