The World Savior Pandemic

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popeye1945
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The World Savior Pandemic

Post by popeye1945 »

The planet is changing all the time every so slowly and all life forms just a little slower, keeping in sink with mother earth. Mother earth, the planet however is in dire straights, or rather her inhabitants are in dire straights. The activities of the human population are changing are destroying much of the natural systems that make up the biosphere, these changes are occurring so quickley that life forms cannot adapt to the rate of change. As L.S. B. Leaky the archaeologist stated back in the sixties, his advice concerning this said rate of change, that people must change their behaviors in order to slow this rate of change or perish.

Change however requires something humanity is apparently in want of, that lacking is self-control. Other life forms lack this self-control as well, but nature has always checked naturally other animal forms to keep the balance. With humanity, humanity has managed to override these checks with its science and tecnologies, as a result, we have a planet that in the not to distant a future, will not support life, will cease to be a living planet. Without this said self-control we leave it to nature, which no doubt could mean a planet without humanity. Arise, pandemic, perhaps this and what is to follow is natures trump card, a planet saver, but the cost will be the decimation of humanity worldwide. What are your thoughts on this, do you think this pandemic is just a warning shot across the bow of the space ship earth?
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Sculptor1
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Re: The World Savior Pandemic

Post by Sculptor1 »

popeye1945 wrote: May 8th, 2021, 4:39 pm The planet is changing all the time every so slowly and all life forms just a little slower, keeping in sink with mother earth. Mother earth, the planet however is in dire straights, or rather her inhabitants are in dire straights. The activities of the human population are changing are destroying much of the natural systems that make up the biosphere, these changes are occurring so quickley that life forms cannot adapt to the rate of change. As L.S. B. Leaky the archaeologist stated back in the sixties, his advice concerning this said rate of change, that people must change their behaviors in order to slow this rate of change or perish.

Change however requires something humanity is apparently in want of, that lacking is self-control. Other life forms lack this self-control as well, but nature has always checked naturally other animal forms to keep the balance. With humanity, humanity has managed to override these checks with its science and tecnologies, as a result, we have a planet that in the not to distant a future, will not support life, will cease to be a living planet. Without this said self-control we leave it to nature, which no doubt could mean a planet without humanity. Arise, pandemic, perhaps this and what is to follow is natures trump card, a planet saver, but the cost will be the decimation of humanity worldwide. What are your thoughts on this, do you think this pandemic is just a warning shot across the bow of the space ship earth?
The Pandemic will have to do a lot better.
The world's population has increased by 28.5 million since January 1st
Last year the population went up by 82 million.
Pandemic Deaths so far: 3.3 million
Total population increase since the start of pandemic about 110 million.
Actual world population 7.8 billion.

Impact of COVIDwould have been 0.038% but we've more than replaced that number.

Another 12 months and it will be business as usual, the news tomorrows chip paper
popeye1945
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Re: The World Savior Pandemic

Post by popeye1945 »

The Pandemic will have to do a lot better.
The world's population has increased by 28.5 million since January 1st
Last year the population went up by 82 million.
Pandemic Deaths so far: 3.3 million
Total population increase since the start of pandemic about 110 million.
Actual world population 7.8 billion.

Impact of COVIDwould have been 0.038% but we've more than replaced that number.

Another 12 months and it will be business as usual, the news tomorrows chip paper
[/quote]

Hi Sculptor,

Thanks for the statistics, the irony is even if we win, we lose. Globally if humanity cannot manage self-control the future looks grim. I think also this is just the begining. I was listening to a Canadian scientist recently stating that our encroachment into the habitats of what's left of the wilderness is putting us in touch with a wealth of biological factors we have not had to deal with before. It is somewhat like the Europeans inadvertently bring all kinds of diseases to the new world, almost wiping out much of the native populations where ever they went. There will also be the wonder as further pandemics arrive whether they are not created in laboratories, it would be a perfectly rational approach given the circumstances. We are the unsinkable ship the Titanic!!!
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LuckyR
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Re: The World Savior Pandemic

Post by LuckyR »

popeye1945 wrote: May 8th, 2021, 4:39 pm The planet is changing all the time every so slowly and all life forms just a little slower, keeping in sink with mother earth. Mother earth, the planet however is in dire straights, or rather her inhabitants are in dire straights. The activities of the human population are changing are destroying much of the natural systems that make up the biosphere, these changes are occurring so quickley that life forms cannot adapt to the rate of change. As L.S. B. Leaky the archaeologist stated back in the sixties, his advice concerning this said rate of change, that people must change their behaviors in order to slow this rate of change or perish.

Change however requires something humanity is apparently in want of, that lacking is self-control. Other life forms lack this self-control as well, but nature has always checked naturally other animal forms to keep the balance. With humanity, humanity has managed to override these checks with its science and tecnologies, as a result, we have a planet that in the not to distant a future, will not support life, will cease to be a living planet. Without this said self-control we leave it to nature, which no doubt could mean a planet without humanity. Arise, pandemic, perhaps this and what is to follow is natures trump card, a planet saver, but the cost will be the decimation of humanity worldwide. What are your thoughts on this, do you think this pandemic is just a warning shot across the bow of the space ship earth?
Your commentary suffers from too narrow of a time scale view. Planet earth is fine. A million years from now there will be no obvious evidence that humans ever existed.
"As usual... it depends."
popeye1945
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Re: The World Savior Pandemic

Post by popeye1945 »

Hi LuckyR
I am afraid you are the one with the time scale problem, like I said even if we win this battle of perhaps multiple pandemics we still lose if humanity cannot excercise self-control. When the conditions of the environment become so altered in its condition that life is no longer possiable is knocking on our front door. That idea that a million years from now there will be no evidence that humans ever existed is rather a redundant insight.
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Sculptor1
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Re: The World Savior Pandemic

Post by Sculptor1 »

popeye1945 wrote: May 8th, 2021, 6:46 pm The Pandemic will have to do a lot better.
The world's population has increased by 28.5 million since January 1st
Last year the population went up by 82 million.
Pandemic Deaths so far: 3.3 million
Total population increase since the start of pandemic about 110 million.
Actual world population 7.8 billion.

Impact of COVIDwould have been 0.038% but we've more than replaced that number.

Another 12 months and it will be business as usual, the news tomorrows chip paper
Hi Sculptor,

Thanks for the statistics, the irony is even if we win, we lose. Globally if humanity cannot manage self-control the future looks grim. I think also this is just the begining. I was listening to a Canadian scientist recently stating that our encroachment into the habitats of what's left of the wilderness is putting us in touch with a wealth of biological factors we have not had to deal with before.
[/quote]
That is not quite right.
Humans have been dealing with the natural world since they were an indelible part of it. What is now different is that before novel viruses would run their courses LOCALLY, and the humans in that location would be immune for the future. NOW we are immediately transporting the new virus all over the world in a matter of hours.
Eventually we shall either be immune to all it has to give us, or we run out of wilderness.

It is somewhat like the Europeans inadvertently bring all kinds of diseases to the new world, almost wiping out much of the native populations where ever they went.
True this is an example of what I said. Now all the new world has all the germs that Europe had and vice-versa. One wonders what germs Europe acquired at that time too. Given the small populations of the Americas probably not too many.
There will also be the wonder as further pandemics arrive whether they are not created in laboratories, it would be a perfectly rational approach given the circumstances. We are the unsinkable ship the Titanic!!!
There are many ways the human race is going out - a pandemic is not going to be one of them. No matter how bad the virus might be, what we do not survive from because of natural and ad hoc immunity, we can make a vaccine for. And the balance is that the more dangerous the virus, the more it blows itself out too quickly.
The magic of corona is the unusually long period of asymptomatic infectivity, which give it a chance to spread. But the cost to the virus is that it has to be fairly gentle to stay both infective and dormant for a long period. A thing like Ebola whilst being very infectious and massively fatal is far too virulent to spread very far before someone noticed.

Species have been in this battle for billions of years, and the checks and balances work to keep host and germs going. The germs need the hosts, so has to keep plenty alive to keep on propagating.

Humans are not going extinct by nature killing us off. It does not do that to generalists. But we might make ourselves go extinct by killing off nature.
popeye1945
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Re: The World Savior Pandemic

Post by popeye1945 »

I agree there are many possibilities for the demize of the world, meaning nature in the condition it is presently in. The danger for all organisms is this, the rate of change in the condition of the planet is changing to quickly, organisms cannot adapt to those changes that quickly, thus extinction. With this verus and perhaps more to come, at least it will thin out the populations thus taking some pressures of the natural biospheric systems. It just might be that this/these pandemic/s will buy humanity some time to awaken to its peril. At present it is crippling the world economies, thus slowing down some mass destructions of the biosphere by a slowing down of consumption. You speak of species battling threats for billions of years, that is true, but at its own rate of change, a rate organisms could adapt within.
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Pattern-chaser
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Re: The World Savior Pandemic

Post by Pattern-chaser »

popeye1945 wrote: May 8th, 2021, 4:39 pm ...people must change their behaviors in order to slow this rate of change or perish.

Yes, we must, and we won't, so we will perish.
Pattern-chaser

"Who cares, wins"
popeye1945
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Re: The World Savior Pandemic

Post by popeye1945 »

The negativity is kind of reassuring of failure don't you think, like a self-fulfilling prophecy. If people just sit on the hands we are sure to lose.
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LuckyR
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Re: The World Savior Pandemic

Post by LuckyR »

popeye1945 wrote: May 9th, 2021, 4:46 am Hi LuckyR
I am afraid you are the one with the time scale problem, like I said even if we win this battle of perhaps multiple pandemics we still lose if humanity cannot excercise self-control. When the conditions of the environment become so altered in its condition that life is no longer possiable is knocking on our front door. That idea that a million years from now there will be no evidence that humans ever existed is rather a redundant insight.
Well, it depends on who you mean by "we". If you are worried about humans, then you are pointing out a very obvious truth. Good for you. If you are concerned about Mother Earth, as I thought you were, then I stand by my post.
"As usual... it depends."
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Re: The World Savior Pandemic

Post by Nick_A »

Hi Popeye

The planet will do fine. It is Man who willfully suffers by participating in the ritual of self destruction. The being of Man is diminishing while technological knowledge is increasing. Man can do things but doesn't know what to do. A dangerous situation.

For example America is inviting the cartels to smuggle in massive amounts of fentanyl and methamphetamine over the southern border. Kids are dropping like flies from its effects. It is wanted since there is money in it. Drugs are the man made pandemic which will help with excessive population. It is natural for Man's need to participate in the ritual of self destruction. Is there a better way? Not at the moment
Man would like to be an egoist and cannot. This is the most striking characteristic of his wretchedness and the source of his greatness." Simone Weil....Gravity and Grace
popeye1945
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Re: The World Savior Pandemic

Post by popeye1945 »

Well, it depends on who you mean by "we". If you are worried about humans, then you are pointing out a very obvious truth. Good for you. If you are concerned about Mother Earth, as I thought you were, then I stand by my post.
[/quote]

LuckyR,

If you are worried about mother earth without life, then you have a most unusual mind. The earth only has meaning to life, it has no meaning in and of itself.
popeye1945
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Re: The World Savior Pandemic

Post by popeye1945 »

The planet will do fine. It is Man who willfully suffers by participating in the ritual of self destruction. The being of Man is diminishing while technological knowledge is increasing. Man can do things but doesn't know what to do. A dangerous situation.

For example America is inviting the cartels to smuggle in massive amounts of fentanyl and methamphetamine over the southern border. Kids are dropping like flies from its effects. It is wanted since there is money in it. Drugs are the man made pandemic which will help with excessive population. It is natural for Man's need to participate in the ritual of self-destruction. Is there a better way? Not at the moment
[/quote]

Hi Nick.
Yes, my thought is that collectively there is no mind, I'd really like to be wrong about that. It would be such a shame if this is the end of our journey the end of the quest when there is a cosmos to explore.
Nick_A
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Re: The World Savior Pandemic

Post by Nick_A »

popeye1945 wrote: May 9th, 2021, 1:13 pm The planet will do fine. It is Man who willfully suffers by participating in the ritual of self destruction. The being of Man is diminishing while technological knowledge is increasing. Man can do things but doesn't know what to do. A dangerous situation.

For example America is inviting the cartels to smuggle in massive amounts of fentanyl and methamphetamine over the southern border. Kids are dropping like flies from its effects. It is wanted since there is money in it. Drugs are the man made pandemic which will help with excessive population. It is natural for Man's need to participate in the ritual of self-destruction. Is there a better way? Not at the moment
Hi Nick.
Yes, my thought is that collectively there is no mind, I'd really like to be wrong about that. It would be such a shame if this is the end of our journey the end of the quest when there is a cosmos to explore.
[/quote]

Society as a living organism is n old idea which I do believe to be true. It is why Plato described society as the Beast. From wiki
Social organism is a sociological concept, or model, wherein a society or social structure is regarded as a "living organism". The various entities comprising a society, such as law, family, crime, etc., are examined as they interact with other entities of the society to meet its needs. Every entity of a society, or social organism, has a function in helping maintain the organism's stability and cohesiveness.
The Beast like all beasts are creatures of reaction so I would agree that society or the grand collective has no mind. A society is born, lives, reproduces, and dies. Unfortunately if the arts are any indication, what is being reproduced is losing its quality as a whole. Exploring the cosmos may have to be postponed
Man would like to be an egoist and cannot. This is the most striking characteristic of his wretchedness and the source of his greatness." Simone Weil....Gravity and Grace
popeye1945
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Re: The World Savior Pandemic

Post by popeye1945 »

Hi Nick,
Funny you should meantion the reactionary nature of the beast. In fact all organisms including man are reactionary creatures, so just perhaps the threat the peril has not reached critical mass for the population to collectively react. Then again more likely it is mindlessness, if so, the population must pay a terrible price, and the survivors will gather the thread and hopefully be the wiser. These pandemics metphorically can be envisioned the mother of all storms.
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