There Is No Such Thing As Human Action, There Is But Reaction

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popeye1945
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Re: There Is No Such Thing As Human Action, There Is But Reaction

Post by popeye1945 »

The first object of the mind is the body, consciousness only occurs through some alteration of the body it would other wise be completely unaware, so it is a foregone conclusion that the body informs the mind. As I have previously stated the body created the mind the mind did not create the body. If one wants to insist that consciousness is the property of the brain one has to ignore basic biology.
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AmericanKestrel
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Re: There Is No Such Thing As Human Action, There Is But Reaction

Post by AmericanKestrel »

popeye1945 wrote: June 6th, 2021, 7:25 pm The first object of the mind is the body, consciousness only occurs through some alteration of the body it would other wise be completely unaware, so it is a foregone conclusion that the body informs the mind. As I have previously stated the body created the mind the mind did not create the body. If one wants to insist that consciousness is the property of the brain one has to ignore basic biology.
Body is a manifestation of the mind. When you dream your body is inert, your mind is still active. In deep sleep both body and mind are inert, only the Self is present. The Self is always present in all three states. it is the only subject.
"The Serpent did not lie."
popeye1945
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Re: There Is No Such Thing As Human Action, There Is But Reaction

Post by popeye1945 »

AmericanKestrel,
I realize that your using an interpretation from the Upanishads but this is a different slant, although you do have me curious. How would you explain the fact that the brain developed from the inside-out and that the body has apparently grown itself a brain?
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AmericanKestrel
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Re: There Is No Such Thing As Human Action, There Is But Reaction

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popeye1945 wrote: June 9th, 2021, 9:24 am AmericanKestrel,
I realize that your using an interpretation from the Upanishads but this is a different slant, although you do have me curious. How would you explain the fact that the brain developed from the inside-out and that the body has apparently grown itself a brain?
How do you explain biology? Brain is an organ, just like your liver, or heart. It is not your mind, nobody has located the mind yet.
"The Serpent did not lie."
popeye1945
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Re: There Is No Such Thing As Human Action, There Is But Reaction

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Neurology has located it within the brain. In the process proving that there is no such thing as free will much to the concern of both the legal system and religions that depend upon it for selling sin.
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AmericanKestrel
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Re: There Is No Such Thing As Human Action, There Is But Reaction

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popeye1945 wrote: June 10th, 2021, 6:18 pm Neurology has located it within the brain. In the process proving that there is no such thing as free will much to the concern of both the legal system and religions that depend upon it for selling sin.
Can you link a reference?
"The Serpent did not lie."
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Re: There Is No Such Thing As Human Action, There Is But Reaction

Post by popeye1945 »

AmericanKestrel.
Google Sam Harris lectures, upon certain behaviours and emotions they can watch particular parts of the brain light up, which indicates where these things are occurring. I recommend also Sam Harriss's lectures on the illusion of freewill, He is a philosopher, neurologist and a leader in the new atheist movement.
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Re: There Is No Such Thing As Human Action, There Is But Reaction

Post by Terrapin Station »

popeye1945 wrote: June 10th, 2021, 11:47 pm AmericanKestrel.
Google Sam Harris lectures, upon certain behaviours and emotions they can watch particular parts of the brain light up, which indicates where these things are occurring. I recommend also Sam Harriss's lectures on the illusion of freewill, He is a philosopher, neurologist and a leader in the new atheist movement.
Did you read my earlier post about being able to peg the temporal occurrence of a decision?
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AmericanKestrel
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Re: There Is No Such Thing As Human Action, There Is But Reaction

Post by AmericanKestrel »

popeye1945 wrote: June 10th, 2021, 11:47 pm AmericanKestrel.
Google Sam Harris lectures, upon certain behaviours and emotions they can watch particular parts of the brain light up, which indicates where these things are occurring. I recommend also Sam Harriss's lectures on the illusion of freewill, He is a philosopher, neurologist and a leader in the new atheist movement.
the Brain has many functions and they can be observed. No scientist has yet proven where the mind exists.
"The Serpent did not lie."
popeye1945
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Re: There Is No Such Thing As Human Action, There Is But Reaction

Post by popeye1945 »

AmericanKestrel wrote: June 11th, 2021, 7:47 am
popeye1945 wrote: June 10th, 2021, 11:47 pm AmericanKestrel.
Google Sam Harris lectures, upon certain behaviours and emotions they can watch particular parts of the brain light up, which indicates where these things are occurring. I recommend also Sam Harriss's lectures on the illusion of freewill, He is a philosopher, neurologist and a leader in the new atheist movement.
the Brain has many functions and they can be observed. No scientist has yet proven where the mind exists.
It seems obvious at this point that it is not at a particular point but global.
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AmericanKestrel
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Re: There Is No Such Thing As Human Action, There Is But Reaction

Post by AmericanKestrel »

popeye1945 wrote: June 11th, 2021, 11:50 am
AmericanKestrel wrote: June 11th, 2021, 7:47 am
popeye1945 wrote: June 10th, 2021, 11:47 pm AmericanKestrel.
Google Sam Harris lectures, upon certain behaviours and emotions they can watch particular parts of the brain light up, which indicates where these things are occurring. I recommend also Sam Harriss's lectures on the illusion of freewill, He is a philosopher, neurologist and a leader in the new atheist movement.
the Brain has many functions and they can be observed. No scientist has yet proven where the mind exists.
It seems obvious at this point that it is not at a particular point but global.
Actually mind may not exist at all. It is a delusion caused by the ego that makes us think the mind exists. It is partially present when we dream and totally absent when in deep sleep.
"The Serpent did not lie."
popeye1945
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Re: There Is No Such Thing As Human Action, There Is But Reaction

Post by popeye1945 »

AmericanKestrel wrote: June 11th, 2021, 5:32 pm
popeye1945 wrote: June 11th, 2021, 11:50 am
AmericanKestrel wrote: June 11th, 2021, 7:47 am
popeye1945 wrote: June 10th, 2021, 11:47 pm AmericanKestrel.
Google Sam Harris lectures, upon certain behaviours and emotions they can watch particular parts of the brain light up, which indicates where these things are occurring. I recommend also Sam Harriss's lectures on the illusion of freewill, He is a philosopher, neurologist and a leader in the new atheist movement.
the Brain has many functions and they can be observed. No scientist has yet proven where the mind exists.
It seems obvious at this point that it is not at a particular point but global.
Actually mind may not exist at all. It is a delusion caused by the ego that makes us think the mind exists. It is partially present when we dream and totally absent when in deep sleep.
I doubt there is any science backing this up. The part about deep sleep might hold water but I very much doubt any neuroscience would back up such statements, one needs a mind to have an ego.
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AmericanKestrel
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Re: There Is No Such Thing As Human Action, There Is But Reaction

Post by AmericanKestrel »

popeye1945 wrote: June 11th, 2021, 5:45 pm
AmericanKestrel wrote: June 11th, 2021, 5:32 pm
popeye1945 wrote: June 11th, 2021, 11:50 am
AmericanKestrel wrote: June 11th, 2021, 7:47 am

the Brain has many functions and they can be observed. No scientist has yet proven where the mind exists.
It seems obvious at this point that it is not at a particular point but global.
Actually mind may not exist at all. It is a delusion caused by the ego that makes us think the mind exists. It is partially present when we dream and totally absent when in deep sleep.
I doubt there is any science backing this up. The part about deep sleep might hold water but I very much doubt any neuroscience would back up such statements, one needs a mind to have an ego.
science will eventually catch up.
"The Serpent did not lie."
popeye1945
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Re: There Is No Such Thing As Human Action, There Is But Reaction

Post by popeye1945 »

AmericanKestrel,
So, you are believing this on faith?
popeye1945
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Re: There Is No Such Thing As Human Action, There Is But Reaction

Post by popeye1945 »

mystery wrote: May 28th, 2021, 8:26 pm interesting thread, does it mean that humans can be reprogrammed by understanding action/reaction? Maybe that's a different topic. We can change ourselves by understanding the cause. The key would be to admit and work on the true cause.
The cause for all reactionary organisms is the physical world as an object. Other people, other organisms being objects in your world are cause to you as you are cause to them. One has no independence in relation to the physical world, you are a functional part of the world. Essentially, being is cause, and it is cause to other beings, and the other beings are reactionary organisms whose reactions are cause to the physical world and its subjects. There is no such thing as human act there is but human reaction. The fact that an organism must be motivated to react to its outside world spells reaction and in no way spells action. The organism is a complex reactionary organism, and that is the function of the organism as part of the physical world, this is how it belongs to, as in not separate from the physical world.
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