The Three Levels of Life’s Consciousness- Cell, Organism, society

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Steve3007
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Re: The Three Levels of Life’s Consciousness- Cell, Organism, society

Post by Steve3007 »

I guess this all depends on the precise meaning, in context, of the word "PLONK!!!".

For my part, I think the best policy is just to ignore comments that we consider to be content-poor abuse. That's why I think it's probably quite wise for the forum rules to say that rule-breaking posts shouldn't be commented on.
Steve3007
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Re: The Three Levels of Life’s Consciousness- Cell, Organism, society

Post by Steve3007 »

Spinix wrote:I would like this subject to expand.
The desire an electron has to be by a positive charge makes the electron conscious . Every particle in the universe is currently trying to reach some particular state.
I desire food when I'm hungry. Sometimes I choose to eat it. Sometimes I don't. If I ever find myself unsupported in mid air, I fall to the ground. That's not a choice. I don't fall to the ground due to desire. Do you see the difference? Do electrons, in your view, decide to get next to protons in the same way that I may or may not decide to eat when I'm hungry?
Nick_A
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Re: The Three Levels of Life’s Consciousness- Cell, Organism, society

Post by Nick_A »

Hi Spinix
The three levels of life’s consciousness all intertwine. The numbering system of 1, 2, and 3 is misleading as no level is at a higher value than another, it is more like an equilateral triangle and either the points or lines are the levels. Life is just a type of consciousness as every inanimate object has their own levels too.
You describe consciousness as a bottom up process beginning at the cellular level and I see creation as a top down process being initiated by pure consciousness beyond the limitations of time and space. This is much like the Great Chain of Being described by Plotinus. Are you familiar with it?

https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/en ... oplatonism

Neoplatonism


The Neoplatonists, such as Plotinus (205-270), took Aristotle’s hierarchy of distinct beings and “spiritualized” it into a quasi-mystical unity inspired by Plato. While the basic hierarchal structure of Aristotle remained the same, the highest “forms” were transformed into purely spiritual or immaterial beings. Plato, in his famous 'Theory of the Forms', had thought of Ideas as immutable or unchangeable beings in which material beings on earth participated. For example, all individual dogs participated in the one eternal Idea of Dog (or Dogness), which exists in a higher, immaterial realm. Also, in his 'Analogy of the Sun' Plato speaks of the Good which is “beyond all being.” The Neoplatonists develop these notions in such a way that the degree of goodness a thing possesses depends upon its degree of being, that is, the extent to which a being participates in the One or Good. The Great Chain of Being, then, is seen as a chain of emanation. The One is at the top and so all being flows downward from the One. Below the One, then, are the spiritual beings of Ideas, rational human beings, sensible animals, living plants, and finally inanimate things (which merely exist). Human beings hold a particularly interesting place in this perspective since they exist at once in both the immaterial and material realms. The more humans turn downward and absorb themselves in material things, the more they turn away from the good and become evil. In contrast, the more humans turn upward to the intelligible realm and the Good, the more being or goodness they possess. Moreover, in this conception pure evil does not exist. For evil, strictly speaking, is not a being or positive force but rather a privation or lack of being.
Man would like to be an egoist and cannot. This is the most striking characteristic of his wretchedness and the source of his greatness." Simone Weil....Gravity and Grace
Spinix
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Re: The Three Levels of Life’s Consciousness- Cell, Organism, society

Post by Spinix »

wow. I was gone for a while ,obviously, and upon returning I've learned many customs that I think a philosopher should follow. I am young relative to how many times I've revolved around the sun, and also young in the knowledge of philosophy. I am also new to writing, so I will use words and phrases that are fun to write but may not express the thought I had very accurately. Thank you for teaching me how to write better. Thank you for suggesting books to me too, I will look into those.

I have a question for you all, What is the best reason why one would engage in philosophical discussions?
Spinix
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Re: The Three Levels of Life’s Consciousness- Cell, Organism, society

Post by Spinix »

Steve3007 wrote: May 26th, 2021, 7:46 am
Spinix wrote:I would like this subject to expand.
The desire an electron has to be by a positive charge makes the electron conscious . Every particle in the universe is currently trying to reach some particular state.
I desire food when I'm hungry. Sometimes I choose to eat it. Sometimes I don't. If I ever find myself unsupported in mid air, I fall to the ground. That's not a choice. I don't fall to the ground due to desire. Do you see the difference? Do electrons, in your view, decide to get next to protons in the same way that I may or may not decide to eat when I'm hungry?
I understand what you are saying. It was my mistake to use the word 'desire' the way I did, but I think if you truly desire something every choice you make will be to get that one thing. For people there are many different factors in their life that would make them choose to do something else, like to not eat in your example. An electron lives a simpler life (figuratively speaking) and will be attracted to protons no matter what happens to them, as long as are still an electron. As long as you are still a normal living human, you will want to eat at some point.
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Re: The Three Levels of Life’s Consciousness- Cell, Organism, society

Post by Sy Borg »

I enjoy this kind of perspective as I feel it points to deep dynamics of reality, a process that (ostensibly) starts with assembly of subatomic particles into atoms, then molecules, then macro objects that assemble into stars or planets, which assemble into galaxies, galactic clusters and superclusters and so on.

I'd add some transitional levels to the OP's general idea.

First, there's the components for a cell - the inner workings and outer layer that separates a cell from the world, that makes a cell, a cell.
Some cells form small groups
And larger groups, that leads to a ...
Cell colony - which may, over deep time, integrate (eg. pyrosome) to the point of being an ...
Organism (such as a sea sponge, which operates almost as much like a colony as it does like an organism)
Organism tribes
Organism large groups
Organism colonies, which may over time become a ...
Super-organism, which will become ...?

I believe that, at present, individual people are suffering under the control of emergent "super-organism societies", whose "organs" are governments and other large organisations. These large entities have their own interests that may be unrelated to the welfare of the people within. By the same token, we think nothing of sacrificing our individual cells when we sunbake, eat junk food, live sedentary lifestyles, and so on.

Nature is not kind, but it does appear to be capable of producing ever greater complexity and sophistication. Even after major extinctions, the complexity is retained in the DNA of survivors, and complexification continues apace.
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Re: The Three Levels of Life’s Consciousness- Cell, Organism, society

Post by Pattern-chaser »

Spinix wrote: June 21st, 2021, 3:29 pm I have a question for you all, What is the best reason why one would engage in philosophical discussions?
The best reason is to learn, to increase one's understanding. There are many other, perhaps lesser, reasons too.
Pattern-chaser

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Steve3007
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Re: The Three Levels of Life’s Consciousness- Cell, Organism, society

Post by Steve3007 »

Spinix wrote:
Steve3007 wrote:I desire food when I'm hungry. Sometimes I choose to eat it. Sometimes I don't. If I ever find myself unsupported in mid air, I fall to the ground. That's not a choice. I don't fall to the ground due to desire. Do you see the difference? Do electrons, in your view, decide to get next to protons in the same way that I may or may not decide to eat when I'm hungry?
I understand what you are saying. It was my mistake to use the word 'desire' the way I did, but I think if you truly desire something every choice you make will be to get that one thing. For people there are many different factors in their life that would make them choose to do something else, like to not eat in your example. An electron lives a simpler life (figuratively speaking) and will be attracted to protons no matter what happens to them, as long as are still an electron. As long as you are still a normal living human, you will want to eat at some point.
The idea of matter wanting or desiring to reach some particular state certainly is used a lot, at least as metaphor, in statements about the behaviour of the physical world. One of the most well known is "nature abhors a vacuum". Originally attributed to Aristotle but often used to express a very general principle of nature, whereby non-uniformities in a physical system tend to result in forces which act to remove them, and push the system back towards homogeneity. But, of course, the use of a word like "abhors" implies a conscious agent with desires and fears ("Horror vacui").

The extent to which it makes sense to talk literally, and not just metaphorically, in this way depends on the whole issue of what physical laws actually represent, what it means for something to be determined or deterministic and the sense in which we think the actions of conscious agents are described by or determined by physical laws. So another instance of the old free-will versus determinism discussion.
Spinix wrote:I have a question for you all, What is the best reason why one would engage in philosophical discussions?
One of the main reasons for me is simply learning how other people, in the past and now, thought/think about the world, to find out whether they've considered interesting ways to think about the world which appear to make sense but which I hadn't thought of. Surprise surprise, it seems that they have! :D
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Re: The Three Levels of Life’s Consciousness- Cell, Organism, society

Post by Spinix »

Sy Borg wrote: June 21st, 2021, 5:36 pm First, there's the components for a cell - the inner workings and outer layer that separates a cell from the world, that makes a cell, a cell.
Some cells form small groups
And larger groups, that leads to a ...
Cell colony - which may, over deep time, integrate (eg. pyrosome) to the point of being an ...
Organism (such as a sea sponge, which operates almost as much like a colony as it does like an organism)
Organism tribes
Organism large groups
Organism colonies, which may over time become a ...
Super-organism, which will become ...?
All these different terms could be put onto a scale, starting with matter and ending with an entire species, or all of life. This can be compared to the scale of the 3 states of matter(forget plasma in this analogy) and is a measurement of density of a defined space, and varies all the way from the most dense solid possible all the way to one particle. But the classification of the 3 states is just the best way to discern one from another as there are gels, vapors, and thicker and thinner of each state. So like the states of matter I chose 3 classifications that best balanced the scale of life forms, Cells, Organism, and Society. There are organelles within a cell, and organs within an Organism, and societies within societies. Everything in our world of perception can be put on a scale and is always balanced by 3. So as you have pointed out many different "densities", they can be referred to one of the classifications or the median between 2. If there was some type of formula to measure where things stand, I think that could be useful.
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Re: The Three Levels of Life’s Consciousness- Cell, Organism, society

Post by AmericanKestrel »

Spinix wrote: May 24th, 2021, 12:24 am Consciousness is not only for what we call life. Anything that has a desire or purpose has some consciousness. The desire an electron has to be by a positive charge makes the electron conscious . Every particle in the universe is currently trying to reach some particular state. Like humans, each one of us is trying to reach a particular goal even if some goals are simpler and have a shorter time span than others. Also in the cosmic world, every star and planet is following its course and fulfilling its purpose. Everything is conscious. Although life is more complex, it can be broken down by 3 levels.
The first level of life would be the cellular level. Every cell is constantly going through chemical reactions and requires this constant to be alive. Atoms in every substance are currently exerting forces on other atoms, but with life it's done with a particular pattern and sequence to create a specific life-energy. Each cell does everything they can to perform their function. If a cell was compared to a human, cells would be under some very strict communist rule and they would be very devoted to their country. The country is analogous to an organism.
The second level of life’s consciousness is the Organism. The relative perception of a human is built from all of their cells and how those work together. Does a plant have a sense of separation or ego like animals do, or does it just function and think as a product of the net cellular activity? Animals have a particular awareness of the world around them. As humans we can think and act on what seems like our own will. Is it at our own will that we want to eat food and do so? Is it at our own will that we start farms to provide for more humans? That can be argued about all day but the desire to eat and drink and breath comes from what our cells want. The natural drive to populate the Earth and advance the lives of people comes from the third level; Society’s consciousness .
The third level of life is society. There are different societies in different places but this refers to all life forms as every other level does too. There is never just one blade of grass naturally in a field, there are thousands. Just as there can’t be a country with just one person. Everyone is a part of their society’s consciousness. This operates with a larger relative time as death of organisms is a part of the process. Society is compelled to advance but some people don’t tap into the greater consciousness and are stuck in their ego’s.
Plants and animals are at an equal balance of all three, as one level isn’t more active than another. The three levels of life’s consciousness all intertwine. The numbering system of 1, 2, and 3 is misleading as no level is at a higher value than another, it is more like an equilateral triangle and either the points or lines are the levels. Life is just a type of consciousness as every inanimate object has their own levels too.

There is an interesting parallel in Advaita (nondualism) of the 3 levels of consciousness. Deep sleep when it is completely absent, there is no awareness of the body, in essence a state of insentience. Awake when consciousness is 100% and the world is ‘born.’ In dream, conciousness is half aware, all emotions are felt, there is bodily mobility in a dream, all images are are in tact, but there is a loss of time and space. The difference between dream and awake is relative.
"The Serpent did not lie."
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