What is the root cause of misogyny?

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AmericanKestrel
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What is the root cause of misogyny?

Post by AmericanKestrel »

A recent topic about what we inherit from our mothers spurred this thought.
Every religion, and every society, in all times have demonstrated hatred of women in vile to subtle ways. Yet women are one half of the human race, and importantly the only means of propagating the species as possessors of a uterus.
Racism, and caste, as evil as it is, is ultimately, in truth, a convenient construct as a means of exploitation. Female sex is not a construct. They have always worked as hard as men, even through pregnancy, And bear children, the future farm hands. What was the natural benefit in the hate and oppression?
What is the pay off?

A few things I can think of that spurs this hatred:
Vagina/uterus envy.
They are property that can be stolen, elope, and thus a liability.
They can seduce one to lose his senses.
Men are naturally gay, and thus women are competition.
We hate that which we fear. What is the cause of fear?
What do you think?
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Re: What is the root cause of misogyny?

Post by LuckyR »

AmericanKestrel wrote: May 27th, 2021, 1:06 pm A recent topic about what we inherit from our mothers spurred this thought.
Every religion, and every society, in all times have demonstrated hatred of women in vile to subtle ways. Yet women are one half of the human race, and importantly the only means of propagating the species as possessors of a uterus.
Racism, and caste, as evil as it is, is ultimately, in truth, a convenient construct as a means of exploitation. Female sex is not a construct. They have always worked as hard as men, even through pregnancy, And bear children, the future farm hands. What was the natural benefit in the hate and oppression?
What is the pay off?

A few things I can think of that spurs this hatred:
Vagina/uterus envy.
They are property that can be stolen, elope, and thus a liability.
They can seduce one to lose his senses.
Men are naturally gay, and thus women are competition.
We hate that which we fear. What is the cause of fear?
What do you think?
Basically if there is a distinction, be it gender, skin color, religion, country of origin etc there will always be an "us" and a "them". We always favor us at the expense of them. Of course it is equal and opposite discrimination, but if there is a power differential, the bias will be one way. Men were historically more physically powerful than women and were usually the leadership so misogyny was codified. It doesn't matter if black slaves hated white slave owners, there was no power structure to make the mutual bias equal thus why racism and sexism are one way from a practical standpoint.
"As usual... it depends."
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Re: What is the root cause of misogyny?

Post by mystery »

AmericanKestrel wrote: May 27th, 2021, 1:06 pm A recent topic about what we inherit from our mothers spurred this thought.
Every religion, and every society, in all times have demonstrated hatred of women in vile to subtle ways. Yet women are one half of the human race, and importantly the only means of propagating the species as possessors of a uterus.
Racism, and caste, as evil as it is, is ultimately, in truth, a convenient construct as a means of exploitation. Female sex is not a construct. They have always worked as hard as men, even through pregnancy, And bear children, the future farm hands. What was the natural benefit in the hate and oppression?
What is the pay off?

A few things I can think of that spurs this hatred:
Vagina/uterus envy.
They are property that can be stolen, elope, and thus a liability.
They can seduce one to lose his senses.
Men are naturally gay, and thus women are competition.
We hate that which we fear. What is the cause of fear?
What do you think?
do you think it is genetic or a position a person has from birth or is it something they learn or develop from experience? do you think it is only men, and if so are any age limits around the topic?
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Re: What is the root cause of misogyny?

Post by Steve3007 »

My answer: A combination of various things, including some of those listed in the OP.
Mostly, the difficulty that many men have in reconciling the roles of mother and sexual partner.
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Re: What is the root cause of misogyny?

Post by Steve3007 »

Analyse this:

Dr. Ben Sobel:
What happened with your wife last night?

Boss Paul Vitti:
I wasn't with my wife, I was with my girlfriend.

Dr. Ben Sobel:
Are you having marriage problems?

Boss Paul Vitti:
No.

Dr. Ben Sobel:
Then why do you have a girlfriend?

Boss Paul Vitti:
What, are you gonna start moralizing on me?

Dr. Ben Sobel:
No, I'm not, I'm just trying to understand, why do you have a girlfriend?

Boss Paul Vitti:
I do things with her I can't do with my wife.

Dr. Ben Sobel:
Why can't you do them with your wife?

Boss Paul Vitti:
Hey, that's the mouth she kisses my kids goodnight with! What are you, crazy?
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Re: What is the root cause of misogyny?

Post by popeye1945 »

AmericanKestrel,

Glad to hear my thread inspired another. I think male agression and suppression of the female is due to the standing relationship as two parts of one thing, species being dependent on both to carry it forward. The fact that man is the barron one, not being able to procreate on his own has by nature made the female much more the commodity and having a much more powerful pull upon the desires of the male. Then, there is the business of sexual selection one must compete for the prize with health, wealth, appearance, and competition with other males. Until recently the male's only assurance that he is the father of the females' children was to be In control of her sexuality. Quite often until recent developments in science, there were many many men raising other men's children, so this was most definitely a point of contention. It has resulted in the rather brutal treatment of women in general to the point of being murderous and women held as private property. Still, in many parts of the world women's lives are a wretched experience with oppression coming from the church, society, and even their own families, for many it is life as a tragedy. The tragedy institutionalized is very hard to displace.
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Re: What is the root cause of misogyny?

Post by Terrapin Station »

There's not going to be some small set of common causes of misogyny. It depends on the individual.

Note, though, as with racism, people claim that misogyny is much more common than it is. All sorts of things get pegged as misogyny that are nothing of the sort, such as focuses on sex in song lyrics, in the media, etc.
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Re: What is the root cause of misogyny?

Post by AmericanKestrel »

mystery wrote: May 28th, 2021, 4:19 am
do you think it is genetic or a position a person has from birth or is it something they learn or develop from experience? do you think it is only men, and if so are any age limits around the topic?
[/quote]
Women can be sexist but it is not the same as misogyny. As in racism, women do not hold the power to do harm or deny equality. Women are also indoctrinated into thinking of themselves as inferior, impure, unworthy and every other negative forms of oppression by the culture, religion, and society.
I dont think it is genetic. Just as racism, it is financial, it is property, labor.
What is not clear is the deep hatred that turns to violence toward women who are generally weaker physically.
This hatred is like ignorance, which has no cause, it just exists.
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Re: What is the root cause of misogyny?

Post by AmericanKestrel »

LuckyR wrote: May 28th, 2021, 2:02 am :twisted:
Basically if there is a distinction, be it gender, skin color, religion, country of origin etc there will always be an "us" and a "them". We always favor us at the expense of them. Of course it is equal and opposite discrimination, but if there is a power differential, the bias will be one way. Men were historically more physically powerful than women and were usually the leadership so misogyny was codified. It doesn't matter if black slaves hated white slave owners, there was no power structure to make the mutual bias equal thus why racism and sexism are one way from a practical standpoint.
How did women become them? Why are they not us? They are not enemies they are mothers and wives and lovers and daughters.
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Re: What is the root cause of misogyny?

Post by Pattern-chaser »

AmericanKestrel wrote: May 27th, 2021, 1:06 pm Every religion, and every society, in all times have demonstrated hatred of women in vile to subtle ways.
I think "hatred" is too strong a word for it. Dominance is more like it, enforced with fists if necessary. Not pretty, and difficult to defend morally, but it's simply 'might makes right', the old favourite. I can't see any real hatred involved, although the emotions in play are not attractive ones....


LuckyR wrote: May 28th, 2021, 2:02 am Men were historically more physically powerful than women...
...and I agree that (mostly) accounts for the dominance of men over women.
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Re: What is the root cause of misogyny?

Post by Pattern-chaser »

popeye1945 wrote: May 28th, 2021, 7:50 am The fact that man is the barren one, not being able to procreate on his own...
Wait a minute. A woman cannot procreate alone either. For that reason, I question your argument, and this line of reasoning. 🤔
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Re: What is the root cause of misogyny?

Post by Terrapin Station »

Pattern-chaser wrote: May 28th, 2021, 9:05 am
AmericanKestrel wrote: May 27th, 2021, 1:06 pm Every religion, and every society, in all times have demonstrated hatred of women in vile to subtle ways.
I think "hatred" is too strong a word for it. Dominance is more like it, enforced with fists if necessary. Not pretty, and difficult to defend morally, but it's simply 'might makes right', the old favourite. I can't see any real hatred involved, although the emotions in play are not attractive ones....


LuckyR wrote: May 28th, 2021, 2:02 am Men were historically more physically powerful than women...
...and I agree that (mostly) accounts for the dominance of men over women.
Yeah, feeling that women are inferior in some ways is a different issue than misogyny.

Men and women have differences that still to this day are uncontroversially considered to make each superior to the other in some things (and inferior to the other in some things). Hence why people have issues with transgender women competing in women's sports, for example. The extent to which those differences are inherent is debatable, but that there are differences is uncontroversial, and that's the source of a lot of unwarranted views of general superiority/inferiority--it's simply making a broad generalization based on specific details, which is human nature (and necessary in a lot of arenas--we can't deal with unique details as unique details constantly and hope to survive).
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Re: What is the root cause of misogyny?

Post by Pattern-chaser »

Terrapin Station wrote: May 28th, 2021, 9:13 am
Pattern-chaser wrote: May 28th, 2021, 9:05 am
AmericanKestrel wrote: May 27th, 2021, 1:06 pm Every religion, and every society, in all times have demonstrated hatred of women in vile to subtle ways.
I think "hatred" is too strong a word for it. Dominance is more like it, enforced with fists if necessary. Not pretty, and difficult to defend morally, but it's simply 'might makes right', the old favourite. I can't see any real hatred involved, although the emotions in play are not attractive ones....


LuckyR wrote: May 28th, 2021, 2:02 am Men were historically more physically powerful than women...
...and I agree that (mostly) accounts for the dominance of men over women.
Yeah, feeling that women are inferior in some ways is a different issue than misogyny.
Ah yes, quite right. In that case, I revise my view on this topic. Misogyny is not at all widespread, although the unreasonable treatment of women is. I would almost place misogyny in the same category as psychopathy.
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Re: What is the root cause of misogyny?

Post by AmericanKestrel »

Steve3007 wrote: May 28th, 2021, 4:27 am My answer: A combination of various things, including some of those listed in the OP.
Mostly, the difficulty that many men have in reconciling the roles of mother and sexual partner.
That is a Freud thing and I am not at all sure that is a universal problem. Lots of men sort this out quite alright. And what ABOUT Freud himself blaming mothers for all the faults of men?
Even If it is true, which I don't believe, what is all the unspeakable violence perpetrated in cases of rape, besides the sexual assault? Hatred of mother? If Freud's theory is true, there are many cultures, Italians famously, Latinos, American, most cultures, that revere Mom like a goddess, even while they commit rape and murder.
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Re: What is the root cause of misogyny?

Post by Pattern-chaser »

Terrapin Station wrote: May 28th, 2021, 9:13 am Yeah, feeling that women are inferior in some ways is a different issue than misogyny.
Pattern-chaser wrote: May 28th, 2021, 10:49 am Ah yes, quite right. In that case, I revise my view on this topic. Misogyny is not at all widespread, although the unreasonable treatment of women is. I would almost place misogyny in the same category as psychopathy.
I missed again; my aim is off. For this topic asks for the cause of misogyny. I think that lies fairly and squarely in the mind of the misogynist. To treat women as inferior beings is far too common over the millennia of our history, but it isn't hatred, I don't think. True hatred is an aberration, for which I can see no other cause or justification.
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