What is the root cause of misogyny?

[Pattern-chaser]

A recent topic about what we inherit from our mothers spurred this thought.
Every religion, and every society, in all times have demonstrated hatred of women in vile to subtle ways. Yet women are one half of the human race, and importantly the only means of propagating the species as possessors of a uterus.
Racism, and caste, as evil as it is, is ultimately, in truth, a convenient construct as a means of exploitation. Female sex is not a construct. They have always worked as hard as men, even through pregnancy, And bear children, the future farm hands. What was the natural benefit in the hate and oppression?
What is the pay off?

A few things I can think of that spurs this hatred:
Vagina/uterus envy.
They are property that can be stolen, elope, and thus a liability.
They can seduce one to lose his senses.
Men are naturally gay, and thus women are competition.
We hate that which we fear. What is the cause of fear?
What do you think?

Your OP doesn't say what you think misogyny is. Do you think it describes something like a mild distaste for women, or does it describe something rather more serious? You do mention "hatred of women in vile to subtle ways", so perhaps you intended to address something quite serious? I have been assuming the latter, but perhaps I misunderstood?

[AmericanKestrel]

Men are interested in rape? Is that your point? It is a criminal act of violence for which they go to jail.

We agree it is a criminal act and should be punished.

Your statements indicates “all” men are interested in rape. Is that what you mean?

Men prefer to be in a position of power sexually, some exceptions exist. We have therapists, coaches, and counselors full of men and partners of the men trying to figure out why the man will go limp or has other sexual dysfunctions. At the same time, the woman will go dry with that guy, but not with ones she feels are strong. More than half of the issues turn out to be mental due to a woman getting into a dominant situation mentally with her partner. One of the fastest ways to kill the bedroom time in a marriage or relationship is for the female to bully the male. The opposite usually works pretty well but can lead to abuse and other bad things.

I will not say all, but many(very moral) men have such a fantasy but do not act on it due to self-control and masculinity. Let's see how many white nights and hypocrites jump on that statement. With these topics getting to the real solutions includes getting to the truth of things outside of social shaming.

I think you have just stated the cause of misogyny: men’s rape fantasies and their anger at women for not complying because that makes them go limp. Since not all men are rapists, and are able to control their impulses, the whole system of letting women bear the brunt of of those without control has been perpetuated throughout all societies. Since women are perceived to have this power to make one go limp, it is fear that drives misogyny. They hate what they fear.

[mystery]

Chaser, do you believe that the entire issue or most of it is due to the response of the man to the rejection? Can you respond yes or no to this?

I don't accept your assertion that "rejection is the direct cause of misogyny". Whatever influence rejection might have, I think it is the misogynist's abnormal reaction to rejection that is the cause of subsequent problems.

My suggestion accounts for the empirically-verifiable fact that most men don't exhibit this reaction, or the misogynistic responses that follow.
Your assertion does not account for this.

There's a counter-suggestion for you. One that I have offered quite a few times. How about a response?

Once again you refuse to address my question, and instead ask another question that has been asked and answered several times.

I acknowledge and accept your unwillingness to engage in this discussion.

Chaser, I am asking you the same question back and you refuse to answer it. Why do you refuse?

Are we not telling the same thing?

you are adding the word abnormal and that word is an opinion. we can talk about that.

If we remove that single word then I agree with you and invite you to agree with me, as we tell the same thing.

Or do you refuse to open your mind to the possibility of agreement?

[mystery]

We agree it is a criminal act and should be punished.

Your statements indicates “all” men are interested in rape. Is that what you mean?

Men prefer to be in a position of power sexually, some exceptions exist. We have therapists, coaches, and counselors full of men and partners of the men trying to figure out why the man will go limp or has other sexual dysfunctions. At the same time, the woman will go dry with that guy, but not with ones she feels are strong. More than half of the issues turn out to be mental due to a woman getting into a dominant situation mentally with her partner. One of the fastest ways to kill the bedroom time in a marriage or relationship is for the female to bully the male. The opposite usually works pretty well but can lead to abuse and other bad things.

I will not say all, but many(very moral) men have such a fantasy but do not act on it due to self-control and masculinity. Let's see how many white nights and hypocrites jump on that statement. With these topics getting to the real solutions includes getting to the truth of things outside of social shaming.

I think you have just stated the cause of misogyny: men’s rape fantasies and their anger at women for not complying because that makes them go limp. Since not all men are rapists, and are able to control their impulses, the whole system of letting women bear the brunt of of those without control has been perpetuated throughout all societies. Since women are perceived to have this power to make one go limp, it is fear that drives misogyny. They hate what they fear.

No, for sure not. But I did expect that response from someone, perhaps several. I put that out as a way to draw this exact dialog, and went along with you setting it up. This mindset is part of the deeper issue. It is a delicate topic and we try to discuss it in reality and get around the well-known bias and gaslighting.

Understanding and managing our inner self and also the same as the other gender.

In some cases, I have been around women that hate men so strongly that they project that hate and feel it is from the man. Often for good reasons due to some past actions that have occurred. I will assume that is not what is driving this thread.

Biological humans will never be deeply satisfied until they understand these things. The hunt for peace will travel in all directions until mother nature is satisfied. So much anger will flow in all directions from persons as they reject what they know is true. I sometimes tell, why do we not want what we want. That is not a typo, it is the issue.

For this issue, the cause is rejection. The rejection is the proper action for the woman to do if she does not want the man. If the man breaks any laws as a result he shall be restrained or punished as per law. The man will need to learn why he is rejected and improves. The improvement process is huge and goes in many directions.

What do you disagree with in what I tell?

In summary:
a. man approaches woman
b. woman rejects man
c. man is upset by rejection

What happens next is what we are really concerned about.

Choice #1
d. man becomes angry at failure
e. man points at the woman for the reason of failure (he can not see his own faults)
f. misogyny is born

or

Choice #2
d. man becomes angry at failure
e. man points to himself as the reason
f. man kills himself

or

Choice #3
d. man becomes angry at failure
e. man points to himself as the reason
f. man improves himself

or

Choice #4
c. man does not really care



I like both choices #3 and #4, #3 will convert to #4 after man improves. Notice that in choice #4 we are avoiding some steps. In #4 he does have an interest but doesn't care if it is no or yes because he knows that there are many choices and one or many not a no big deal. It is interesting that when he achieves this change that most of the interactions become yes and do not reject.

Kestrel, I am having fun writing this. I am looking for reasons, real reasons that it doesn't make sense. I have seen the transformation in many and it usually ends well and women usually prefer the men that are a #4. What do you think?

[LuckyR]

Your statements indicates “all” men are interested in rape. Is that what you mean?

Men prefer to be in a position of power sexually, some exceptions exist. We have therapists, coaches, and counselors full of men and partners of the men trying to figure out why the man will go limp or has other sexual dysfunctions. At the same time, the woman will go dry with that guy, but not with ones she feels are strong. More than half of the issues turn out to be mental due to a woman getting into a dominant situation mentally with her partner. One of the fastest ways to kill the bedroom time in a marriage or relationship is for the female to bully the male. The opposite usually works pretty well but can lead to abuse and other bad things.

I will not say all, but many(very moral) men have such a fantasy but do not act on it due to self-control and masculinity. Let's see how many white nights and hypocrites jump on that statement. With these topics getting to the real solutions includes getting to the truth of things outside of social shaming.

I think you have just stated the cause of misogyny: men’s rape fantasies and their anger at women for not complying because that makes them go limp. Since not all men are rapists, and are able to control their impulses, the whole system of letting women bear the brunt of of those without control has been perpetuated throughout all societies. Since women are perceived to have this power to make one go limp, it is fear that drives misogyny. They hate what they fear.

No, for sure not. But I did expect that response from someone, perhaps several. I put that out as a way to draw this exact dialog, and went along with you setting it up. This mindset is part of the deeper issue. It is a delicate topic and we try to discuss it in reality and get around the well-known bias and gaslighting.

Understanding and managing our inner self and also the same as the other gender.

In some cases, I have been around women that hate men so strongly that they project that hate and feel it is from the man. Often for good reasons due to some past actions that have occurred. I will assume that is not what is driving this thread.

Biological humans will never be deeply satisfied until they understand these things. The hunt for peace will travel in all directions until mother nature is satisfied. So much anger will flow in all directions from persons as they reject what they know is true. I sometimes tell, why do we not want what we want. That is not a typo, it is the issue.

For this issue, the cause is rejection. The rejection is the proper action for the woman to do if she does not want the man. If the man breaks any laws as a result he shall be restrained or punished as per law. The man will need to learn why he is rejected and improves. The improvement process is huge and goes in many directions.

What do you disagree with in what I tell?

In summary:
a. man approaches woman
b. woman rejects man
c. man is upset by rejection

What happens next is what we are really concerned about.

Choice #1
d. man becomes angry at failure
e. man points at the woman for the reason of failure (he can not see his own faults)
f. misogyny is born

or

Choice #2
d. man becomes angry at failure
e. man points to himself as the reason
f. man kills himself

or

Choice #3
d. man becomes angry at failure
e. man points to himself as the reason
f. man improves himself

or

Choice #4
c. man does not really care



I like both choices #3 and #4, #3 will convert to #4 after man improves. Notice that in choice #4 we are avoiding some steps. In #4 he does have an interest but doesn't care if it is no or yes because he knows that there are many choices and one or many not a no big deal. It is interesting that when he achieves this change that most of the interactions become yes and do not reject.

Kestrel, I am having fun writing this. I am looking for reasons, real reasons that it doesn't make sense. I have seen the transformation in many and it usually ends well and women usually prefer the men that are a #4. What do you think?

Uummm... how do you explain misogynistic men, who are completely successful at picking up women, ie they don't get rejected?

[mystery]

Men prefer to be in a position of power sexually, some exceptions exist. We have therapists, coaches, and counselors full of men and partners of the men trying to figure out why the man will go limp or has other sexual dysfunctions. At the same time, the woman will go dry with that guy, but not with ones she feels are strong. More than half of the issues turn out to be mental due to a woman getting into a dominant situation mentally with her partner. One of the fastest ways to kill the bedroom time in a marriage or relationship is for the female to bully the male. The opposite usually works pretty well but can lead to abuse and other bad things.

I will not say all, but many(very moral) men have such a fantasy but do not act on it due to self-control and masculinity. Let's see how many white nights and hypocrites jump on that statement. With these topics getting to the real solutions includes getting to the truth of things outside of social shaming.

I think you have just stated the cause of misogyny: men’s rape fantasies and their anger at women for not complying because that makes them go limp. Since not all men are rapists, and are able to control their impulses, the whole system of letting women bear the brunt of of those without control has been perpetuated throughout all societies. Since women are perceived to have this power to make one go limp, it is fear that drives misogyny. They hate what they fear.

No, for sure not. But I did expect that response from someone, perhaps several. I put that out as a way to draw this exact dialog, and went along with you setting it up. This mindset is part of the deeper issue. It is a delicate topic and we try to discuss it in reality and get around the well-known bias and gaslighting.

Understanding and managing our inner self and also the same as the other gender.

In some cases, I have been around women that hate men so strongly that they project that hate and feel it is from the man. Often for good reasons due to some past actions that have occurred. I will assume that is not what is driving this thread.

Biological humans will never be deeply satisfied until they understand these things. The hunt for peace will travel in all directions until mother nature is satisfied. So much anger will flow in all directions from persons as they reject what they know is true. I sometimes tell, why do we not want what we want. That is not a typo, it is the issue.

For this issue, the cause is rejection. The rejection is the proper action for the woman to do if she does not want the man. If the man breaks any laws as a result he shall be restrained or punished as per law. The man will need to learn why he is rejected and improves. The improvement process is huge and goes in many directions.

What do you disagree with in what I tell?

In summary:
a. man approaches woman
b. woman rejects man
c. man is upset by rejection

What happens next is what we are really concerned about.

Choice #1
d. man becomes angry at failure
e. man points at the woman for the reason of failure (he can not see his own faults)
f. misogyny is born

or

Choice #2
d. man becomes angry at failure
e. man points to himself as the reason
f. man kills himself

or

Choice #3
d. man becomes angry at failure
e. man points to himself as the reason
f. man improves himself

or

Choice #4
c. man does not really care



I like both choices #3 and #4, #3 will convert to #4 after man improves. Notice that in choice #4 we are avoiding some steps. In #4 he does have an interest but doesn't care if it is no or yes because he knows that there are many choices and one or many not a no big deal. It is interesting that when he achieves this change that most of the interactions become yes and do not reject.

Kestrel, I am having fun writing this. I am looking for reasons, real reasons that it doesn't make sense. I have seen the transformation in many and it usually ends well and women usually prefer the men that are a #4. What do you think?

Uummm... how do you explain misogynistic men, who are completely successful at picking up women, ie they don't get rejected?

Lucky,

It is a small percentage of this, and a special case. They have learned and or always knew how to pick up women (BTW, that is something that can be learned). Those men have been rejected in the past and usually in a very memorable way. From that, they learn how to seduce and drop or already knew and that is what got them into trouble. As the behavior of many/most women is very predictable it becomes very easy for these men and in essence, they lose respect for women as a whole. All of the ones I am aware of that are like that have had a long-term relationship break and someone that they loved... devalued them and dropped them. The glitch is that most of the time in this case it was the man that did something wrong... to cause the original issue. Women do not usually drop men that are attractive to other women.

It goes like this for this special case; usually.

- happy relationship
- man screws up
- woman then rejects the man
- man to anger and hurt
- misogyny

This is an interesting but small percentage of the overall. By far the biggest percentage is men that do not act properly but are loyal and nice, women reject because of that either early or later.

[LuckyR]

I think you have just stated the cause of misogyny: men’s rape fantasies and their anger at women for not complying because that makes them go limp. Since not all men are rapists, and are able to control their impulses, the whole system of letting women bear the brunt of of those without control has been perpetuated throughout all societies. Since women are perceived to have this power to make one go limp, it is fear that drives misogyny. They hate what they fear.

No, for sure not. But I did expect that response from someone, perhaps several. I put that out as a way to draw this exact dialog, and went along with you setting it up. This mindset is part of the deeper issue. It is a delicate topic and we try to discuss it in reality and get around the well-known bias and gaslighting.

Understanding and managing our inner self and also the same as the other gender.

In some cases, I have been around women that hate men so strongly that they project that hate and feel it is from the man. Often for good reasons due to some past actions that have occurred. I will assume that is not what is driving this thread.

Biological humans will never be deeply satisfied until they understand these things. The hunt for peace will travel in all directions until mother nature is satisfied. So much anger will flow in all directions from persons as they reject what they know is true. I sometimes tell, why do we not want what we want. That is not a typo, it is the issue.

For this issue, the cause is rejection. The rejection is the proper action for the woman to do if she does not want the man. If the man breaks any laws as a result he shall be restrained or punished as per law. The man will need to learn why he is rejected and improves. The improvement process is huge and goes in many directions.

What do you disagree with in what I tell?

In summary:
a. man approaches woman
b. woman rejects man
c. man is upset by rejection

What happens next is what we are really concerned about.

Choice #1
d. man becomes angry at failure
e. man points at the woman for the reason of failure (he can not see his own faults)
f. misogyny is born

or

Choice #2
d. man becomes angry at failure
e. man points to himself as the reason
f. man kills himself

or

Choice #3
d. man becomes angry at failure
e. man points to himself as the reason
f. man improves himself

or

Choice #4
c. man does not really care



I like both choices #3 and #4, #3 will convert to #4 after man improves. Notice that in choice #4 we are avoiding some steps. In #4 he does have an interest but doesn't care if it is no or yes because he knows that there are many choices and one or many not a no big deal. It is interesting that when he achieves this change that most of the interactions become yes and do not reject.

Kestrel, I am having fun writing this. I am looking for reasons, real reasons that it doesn't make sense. I have seen the transformation in many and it usually ends well and women usually prefer the men that are a #4. What do you think?

Uummm... how do you explain misogynistic men, who are completely successful at picking up women, ie they don't get rejected?

Lucky,

It is a small percentage of this, and a special case. They have learned and or always knew how to pick up women (BTW, that is something that can be learned). Those men have been rejected in the past and usually in a very memorable way. From that, they learn how to seduce and drop or already knew and that is what got them into trouble. As the behavior of many/most women is very predictable it becomes very easy for these men and in essence, they lose respect for women as a whole. All of the ones I am aware of that are like that have had a long-term relationship break and someone that they loved... devalued them and dropped them. The glitch is that most of the time in this case it was the man that did something wrong... to cause the original issue. Women do not usually drop men that are attractive to other women.

It goes like this for this special case; usually.

- happy relationship
- man screws up
- woman then rejects the man
- man to anger and hurt
- misogyny

This is an interesting but small percentage of the overall. By far the biggest percentage is men that do not act properly but are loyal and nice, women reject because of that either early or later.

If I understand you correctly you're saying that men who are successful at picking up women, are successful because they were rejected early on, which motivated them to learn how to pick up women successfully.

I am sure such a scenario has played out before. However, I was addressing a totally different situation, namely the guy who has never been rejected. Why? Who cares? Maybe he's rich, or famous or good looking. Yet he is a misogynist.

[mystery]

No, for sure not. But I did expect that response from someone, perhaps several. I put that out as a way to draw this exact dialog, and went along with you setting it up. This mindset is part of the deeper issue. It is a delicate topic and we try to discuss it in reality and get around the well-known bias and gaslighting.

Understanding and managing our inner self and also the same as the other gender.

In some cases, I have been around women that hate men so strongly that they project that hate and feel it is from the man. Often for good reasons due to some past actions that have occurred. I will assume that is not what is driving this thread.

Biological humans will never be deeply satisfied until they understand these things. The hunt for peace will travel in all directions until mother nature is satisfied. So much anger will flow in all directions from persons as they reject what they know is true. I sometimes tell, why do we not want what we want. That is not a typo, it is the issue.

For this issue, the cause is rejection. The rejection is the proper action for the woman to do if she does not want the man. If the man breaks any laws as a result he shall be restrained or punished as per law. The man will need to learn why he is rejected and improves. The improvement process is huge and goes in many directions.

What do you disagree with in what I tell?

In summary:
a. man approaches woman
b. woman rejects man
c. man is upset by rejection

What happens next is what we are really concerned about.

Choice #1
d. man becomes angry at failure
e. man points at the woman for the reason of failure (he can not see his own faults)
f. misogyny is born

or

Choice #2
d. man becomes angry at failure
e. man points to himself as the reason
f. man kills himself

or

Choice #3
d. man becomes angry at failure
e. man points to himself as the reason
f. man improves himself

or

Choice #4
c. man does not really care



I like both choices #3 and #4, #3 will convert to #4 after man improves. Notice that in choice #4 we are avoiding some steps. In #4 he does have an interest but doesn't care if it is no or yes because he knows that there are many choices and one or many not a no big deal. It is interesting that when he achieves this change that most of the interactions become yes and do not reject.

Kestrel, I am having fun writing this. I am looking for reasons, real reasons that it doesn't make sense. I have seen the transformation in many and it usually ends well and women usually prefer the men that are a #4. What do you think?

Uummm... how do you explain misogynistic men, who are completely successful at picking up women, ie they don't get rejected?

Lucky,

It is a small percentage of this, and a special case. They have learned and or always knew how to pick up women (BTW, that is something that can be learned). Those men have been rejected in the past and usually in a very memorable way. From that, they learn how to seduce and drop or already knew and that is what got them into trouble. As the behavior of many/most women is very predictable it becomes very easy for these men and in essence, they lose respect for women as a whole. All of the ones I am aware of that are like that have had a long-term relationship break and someone that they loved... devalued them and dropped them. The glitch is that most of the time in this case it was the man that did something wrong... to cause the original issue. Women do not usually drop men that are attractive to other women.

It goes like this for this special case; usually.

- happy relationship
- man screws up
- woman then rejects the man
- man to anger and hurt
- misogyny

This is an interesting but small percentage of the overall. By far the biggest percentage is men that do not act properly but are loyal and nice, women reject because of that either early or later.

If I understand you correctly you're saying that men who are successful at picking up women, are successful because they were rejected early on, which motivated them to learn how to pick up women successfully.

I am sure such a scenario has played out before. However, I was addressing a totally different situation, namely the guy who has never been rejected. Why? Who cares? Maybe he's rich, or famous or good looking. Yet he is a misogynist.

No Lucky, I said that men that are good with women AND are also hating women usually have a background of some issue as I told. I thought that is what you had asked.

I don't know or have not found any men that hate women that are good with women, that does not have some negative history about it as I described. Why do you think such cases exist? Do you have any story or example to help clarify, without that I would think it does not exist except in some very uncommon case that is statistically not interesting?

Usually, the men that are natural or learned do not hate women but do understand the situations. Sometimes people interpret a neutral opinion as bad if they are used to being adored. For example, the guy doesn't open a door for a woman so he must hate them...

Tell me more about that case of the man that women like but he does not like them.

[Pattern-chaser]

However, I was addressing a totally different situation, namely the guy who has never been rejected. Why? Who cares? Maybe he's rich, or famous or good looking. Yet he is a misogynist.

Does such a guy exist? A guy who has apparently never had trouble finding female company, and yet he is a misogynist. Why is this, and how did (could) it happen? It doesn't sound plausible to me.

[AmericanKestrel]

However, I was addressing a totally different situation, namely the guy who has never been rejected. Why? Who cares? Maybe he's rich, or famous or good looking. Yet he is a misogynist.

Does such a guy exist? A guy who has apparently never had trouble finding female company, and yet he is a misogynist. Why is this, and how did (could) it happen? It doesn't sound plausible to me.

Maybe he learned not to hate women.

[Sy Borg]

However, I was addressing a totally different situation, namely the guy who has never been rejected. Why? Who cares? Maybe he's rich, or famous or good looking. Yet he is a misogynist.

Does such a guy exist? A guy who has apparently never had trouble finding female company, and yet he is a misogynist. Why is this, and how did (could) it happen? It doesn't sound plausible to me.

Psychopathic charm. And, yes, it does happen.

[mystery]

However, I was addressing a totally different situation, namely the guy who has never been rejected. Why? Who cares? Maybe he's rich, or famous or good looking. Yet he is a misogynist.

Does such a guy exist? A guy who has apparently never had trouble finding female company, and yet he is a misogynist. Why is this, and how did (could) it happen? It doesn't sound plausible to me.

Psychopathic charm. And, yes, it does happen.

I would agree with this, I don't think it is common. I haven't seen it or if I did was not aware of it. It does make sense that it could happen. I don't think it is a statistically important percentage.

[Sy Borg]

However, I was addressing a totally different situation, namely the guy who has never been rejected. Why? Who cares? Maybe he's rich, or famous or good looking. Yet he is a misogynist.

Does such a guy exist? A guy who has apparently never had trouble finding female company, and yet he is a misogynist. Why is this, and how did (could) it happen? It doesn't sound plausible to me.

Psychopathic charm. And, yes, it does happen.

I would agree with this, I don't think it is common. I haven't seen it or if I did was not aware of it. It does make sense that it could happen. I don't think it is a statistically important percentage.

Yes, some with the Casanova syndrome - use and throw away women, treating them with contempt after luring them with a charm offensive.

[LuckyR]

However, I was addressing a totally different situation, namely the guy who has never been rejected. Why? Who cares? Maybe he's rich, or famous or good looking. Yet he is a misogynist.

Does such a guy exist? A guy who has apparently never had trouble finding female company, and yet he is a misogynist. Why is this, and how did (could) it happen? It doesn't sound plausible to me.

Psychopathic charm. And, yes, it does happen.

I would agree with this, I don't think it is common. I haven't seen it or if I did was not aware of it. It does make sense that it could happen. I don't think it is a statistically important percentage.

Perhaps you missed the Me Too movement. The influencial and powerful (and thus successful with women) are fully capable of treating women despicably. And they are numerous.

[Atla]

To be highly politically incorrect and painfully cliché at the same time, I'd say the root cause of misogyny is a genuine disillusionment, despair and the resulting contempt coming from 30+ year old males towards females.
Above 30, many dudes honestly come to the conclusion that women lack the capacity to love men the way men love women. And they also lack the capacity to be committed to what consider "truths" as opposed to "falsehoods", to relate to existence in what men consider logical terms. They honestly see women as mentally inferior who don't make good intellectual partners. (This in addition to having negligible sex drives compared to men.)