Us vs them (men vs women) trumps relationship issues.Sy Borg wrote: ↑June 18th, 2021, 7:42 pmOh, I'd assumed that the lesbian reference was akin to "disabled black lesbian whales", so to speak.
What is the root cause of misogyny?
- LuckyR
- Moderator
- Posts: 7935
- Joined: January 18th, 2015, 1:16 am
Re: What is the root cause of misogyny?
- mystery
- Posts: 380
- Joined: May 14th, 2021, 5:41 am
- Favorite Philosopher: Mike Tyson
- Location: earth
Re: What is the root cause of misogyny?
Is our only disagreement that I think the rejection from a woman is key to the man in most cases that develops misogyny and you think it has nothing to do with it?Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑June 18th, 2021, 7:08 amYes, you do, "over and over". But you don't answer the questions that are put to you concerning the apparent shortfalls of your opinions; you just repeat them.
The reason I approach this way is it doesn't make sense to me the disagreement you have and my position is not ok for you. So usually when this occurs I look closer in the details, like tracing down the stack until something, the real difference is found.
As you in software, it's likely at one time or another that some marketing person asked you to do something that did not make sense, but it did make sense to them. The process of refining the issue to get an agreement had to occur. That is what we are doing.
I will be delighted if you are able to chance my idea on this, that is how we grow.
If you agree with this assertion, the next step would be to discover why I think the woman's actions have some part in it, and why you think they do not.
- Sy Borg
- Site Admin
- Posts: 14997
- Joined: December 16th, 2013, 9:05 pm
Re: What is the root cause of misogyny?
Still, put a proportion of misogynists in a happy relationship and their emotions towards women generally will soften. Another proportion will not be able to function in a happy relationship with a woman per se, either due to social or sexuality issues.
Ultimately, people tend to most hate that which they fear. What do men fear of women specifically, that they don't fear of other men?
1) the capacity to induce embarrassment through rejection and ridicule
2) the risk of parenthood
3) the risk of losing half of what they brought into a marriage via divorce settlements.
- LuckyR
- Moderator
- Posts: 7935
- Joined: January 18th, 2015, 1:16 am
Re: What is the root cause of misogyny?
4) looking inferior to a group you are supposed to be superior to.Sy Borg wrote: ↑June 18th, 2021, 10:14 pm P-C, I'm largely with Mystery here, although it's hard to say "most cases of misogyny", as that would thorough require surveys that run across various demographics.
Still, put a proportion of misogynists in a happy relationship and their emotions towards women generally will soften. Another proportion will not be able to function in a happy relationship with a woman per se, either due to social or sexuality issues.
Ultimately, people tend to most hate that which they fear. What do men fear of women specifically, that they don't fear of other men?
1) the capacity to induce embarrassment through rejection and ridicule
2) the risk of parenthood
3) the risk of losing half of what they brought into a marriage via divorce settlements.
- Sy Borg
- Site Admin
- Posts: 14997
- Joined: December 16th, 2013, 9:05 pm
Re: What is the root cause of misogyny?
Thanks, spot on.LuckyR wrote: ↑June 19th, 2021, 1:09 am4) looking inferior to a group you are supposed to be superior to.Sy Borg wrote: ↑June 18th, 2021, 10:14 pm P-C, I'm largely with Mystery here, although it's hard to say "most cases of misogyny", as that would thorough require surveys that run across various demographics.
Still, put a proportion of misogynists in a happy relationship and their emotions towards women generally will soften. Another proportion will not be able to function in a happy relationship with a woman per se, either due to social or sexuality issues.
Ultimately, people tend to most hate that which they fear. What do men fear of women specifically, that they don't fear of other men?
1) the capacity to induce embarrassment through rejection and ridicule
2) the risk of parenthood
3) the risk of losing half of what they brought into a marriage via divorce settlements.
- Pattern-chaser
- Premium Member
- Posts: 8268
- Joined: September 22nd, 2019, 5:17 am
- Favorite Philosopher: Cratylus
- Location: England
Re: What is the root cause of misogyny?
How can you tell?
It is not over-simplifying by much to observe that mystery's contribution to our discussion has been two things:
- that rejection is the direct cause of misogyny, and (when challenged)
- that it's 100% a man's issue.
The upshot is that I'm not even sure we disagree. Dialogue might have helped, but so far, there has been none.
Without some exchange of views, dialogue cannot occur, and understanding cannot follow.Wikipedia wrote:Dialogue is a written or spoken conversational exchange between two or more people...
"Who cares, wins"
- Pattern-chaser
- Premium Member
- Posts: 8268
- Joined: September 22nd, 2019, 5:17 am
- Favorite Philosopher: Cratylus
- Location: England
Re: What is the root cause of misogyny?
I'm interested to know how a misogynist - a man who hates women - could enter or maintain a "happy relationship" with an object of his hatred?
"Who cares, wins"
- AmericanKestrel
- Posts: 356
- Joined: May 22nd, 2021, 6:26 am
- Favorite Philosopher: Yagnyavalkya
- Location: US
Re: What is the root cause of misogyny?
If there is ample evidence of women hating men, not just the man in her life, but men in general,then that hate has rarely been acted upon with rape and sexual violence. Yes there was the Bobbit case, and the fact we can bring it up is proof how rare that is. The anger women have against men is not sexual rejection, it is the denial of their right to their body, their very personhood, equality in opportunities, and the constant sexism at work and other places. The work they do in raising children is devalued. Those are the issues that makes them mad at men because white men control the power most every where.
This is not the same as the topic which misogyny, hatred of women because they are women.
- AmericanKestrel
- Posts: 356
- Joined: May 22nd, 2021, 6:26 am
- Favorite Philosopher: Yagnyavalkya
- Location: US
Re: What is the root cause of misogyny?
These are situations women accept as part of life. It doesnt make them go and commit violence on a man.Sy Borg wrote: ↑June 18th, 2021, 10:14 pm P-C, I'm largely with Mystery here, although it's hard to say "most cases of misogyny", as that would thorough require surveys that run across various demographics.
Still, put a proportion of misogynists in a happy relationship and their emotions towards women generally will soften. Another proportion will not be able to function in a happy relationship with a woman per se, either due to social or sexuality issues.
Ultimately, people tend to most hate that which they fear. What do men fear of women specifically, that they don't fear of other men?
1) the capacity to induce embarrassment through rejection and ridicule
2) the risk of parenthood
3) the risk of losing half of what they brought into a marriage via divorce settlements.
- Sy Borg
- Site Admin
- Posts: 14997
- Joined: December 16th, 2013, 9:05 pm
Re: What is the root cause of misogyny?
The man's bad attitude would be an impediment to a happy relationship but not always an insurmountable one. Misogyny is a label for particular immature attitudes, not a life sentence. Marriage and age tend to dampen a portion of residual childishness in adults.Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑June 19th, 2021, 7:19 amI'm interested to know how a misogynist - a man who hates women - could enter or maintain a "happy relationship" with an object of his hatred? 😉
- LuckyR
- Moderator
- Posts: 7935
- Joined: January 18th, 2015, 1:16 am
Re: What is the root cause of misogyny?
As long as she is inferior, what's the problem?Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑June 19th, 2021, 7:19 amI'm interested to know how a misogynist - a man who hates women - could enter or maintain a "happy relationship" with an object of his hatred?
- mystery
- Posts: 380
- Joined: May 14th, 2021, 5:41 am
- Favorite Philosopher: Mike Tyson
- Location: earth
Re: What is the root cause of misogyny?
I don't mean this sarcastically at all. it is a real question.AmericanKestrel wrote: ↑June 19th, 2021, 2:31 pm To get some clarity on Karens and men. From what I have seen, this train of thought is new to me because I have seen videos, which is mostly how this meme spread, where their venom was reserved for people of color, both men and women. I dont know if some of you are ignoring the race angle on this issue. I have never seen a Karen directed at a white male.
If there is ample evidence of women hating men, not just the man in her life, but men in general,then that hate has rarely been acted upon with rape and sexual violence. Yes there was the Bobbit case, and the fact we can bring it up is proof how rare that is. The anger women have against men is not sexual rejection, it is the denial of their right to their body, their very personhood, equality in opportunities, and the constant sexism at work and other places. The work they do in raising children is devalued. Those are the issues that makes them mad at men because white men control the power most every where.
This is not the same as the topic which misogyny, hatred of women because they are women.
Should a white man be required to give his wealth to nonwhite men or to any woman even if he earned it himself, or if his father earned it for him, or his grandfather? Should a non-white man or woman be required to do that same, because they are a woman or not a white man the should be allowed to keep what they earn?
Should I teach my son who is a white man, that he is not allowed to work for and have success because he is a man and is white?
- mystery
- Posts: 380
- Joined: May 14th, 2021, 5:41 am
- Favorite Philosopher: Mike Tyson
- Location: earth
Re: What is the root cause of misogyny?
Yes, they do, they do not rape usually because it is not of interest to them but they do commit social and financial violence on men. Psychological violence is very damaging. Many professional counselors have a full schedule of men that are in emotional chaos due to emotional violence. And then the suicides that are caused from the same.AmericanKestrel wrote: ↑June 19th, 2021, 2:38 pmThese are situations women accept as part of life. It doesnt make them go and commit violence on a man.Sy Borg wrote: ↑June 18th, 2021, 10:14 pm P-C, I'm largely with Mystery here, although it's hard to say "most cases of misogyny", as that would thorough require surveys that run across various demographics.
Still, put a proportion of misogynists in a happy relationship and their emotions towards women generally will soften. Another proportion will not be able to function in a happy relationship with a woman per se, either due to social or sexuality issues.
Ultimately, people tend to most hate that which they fear. What do men fear of women specifically, that they don't fear of other men?
1) the capacity to induce embarrassment through rejection and ridicule
2) the risk of parenthood
3) the risk of losing half of what they brought into a marriage via divorce settlements.
- mystery
- Posts: 380
- Joined: May 14th, 2021, 5:41 am
- Favorite Philosopher: Mike Tyson
- Location: earth
Re: What is the root cause of misogyny?
It doesn't happen often, usually, the man just goes into hermit mode and hangs out with men friends or alone.Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑June 19th, 2021, 7:19 amI'm interested to know how a misogynist - a man who hates women - could enter or maintain a "happy relationship" with an object of his hatred?
- mystery
- Posts: 380
- Joined: May 14th, 2021, 5:41 am
- Favorite Philosopher: Mike Tyson
- Location: earth
Re: What is the root cause of misogyny?
In truth, I do answer the questions you have, but you do not like the answer. In response to that, I have been trying to dig deeper and find the most simple version of our disagreement on this.Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑June 19th, 2021, 7:13 am
How can you tell?
It is not over-simplifying by much to observe that mystery's contribution to our discussion has been two things:As you know, I don't agree with the first of these assertions. But I have posted dozens of questions, and none of them have been answered.
- that rejection is the direct cause of misogyny, and (when challenged)
- that it's 100% a man's issue.
The upshot is that I'm not even sure we disagree. Dialogue might have helped, but so far, there has been none.
Without some exchange of views, dialogue cannot occur, and understanding cannot follow.Wikipedia wrote:Dialogue is a written or spoken conversational exchange between two or more people...
For sure the I think it is caused by rejection and you think rejection has nothing to do with it. I am waiting still to get your input on if that is true and you think rejection has nothing to do with this issue. Then we can look closely at the detail of rejection within this issue.
2023/2024 Philosophy Books of the Month
Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul
by Mitzi Perdue
February 2023
Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness
by Chet Shupe
March 2023