What is the root cause of misogyny?

Use this philosophy forum to discuss and debate general philosophy topics that don't fit into one of the other categories.

This forum is NOT for factual, informational or scientific questions about philosophy (e.g. "What year was Socrates born?"). Those kind of questions can be asked in the off-topic section.
Post Reply
User avatar
LuckyR
Moderator
Posts: 7935
Joined: January 18th, 2015, 1:16 am

Re: What is the root cause of misogyny?

Post by LuckyR »

Sy Borg wrote: June 18th, 2021, 7:42 pm
LuckyR wrote: June 18th, 2021, 6:50 pm
Sy Borg wrote: June 18th, 2021, 5:25 am
LuckyR wrote: June 18th, 2021, 1:42 am

I am unfamiliar with the lesbian Karen misogynistic phenomenon.
"Karens" are a fairly well-worn online synecdoche, representing "woman angry at the world (and very often, men)".
Sorry, everyone (even I) knows about Karens being mad at men. My point was lesbian Karens aren't mad at women, they're still mad at men.
Oh, I'd assumed that the lesbian reference was akin to "disabled black lesbian whales", so to speak.
Us vs them (men vs women) trumps relationship issues.
"As usual... it depends."
User avatar
mystery
Posts: 380
Joined: May 14th, 2021, 5:41 am
Favorite Philosopher: Mike Tyson
Location: earth

Re: What is the root cause of misogyny?

Post by mystery »

Pattern-chaser wrote: June 18th, 2021, 7:08 am
Pattern-chaser wrote: June 17th, 2021, 8:49 am ...
mystery wrote: June 18th, 2021, 2:46 am I do keep saying over and over that it is a men's issue to deal with and no fault of the woman.
Yes, you do, "over and over". But you don't answer the questions that are put to you concerning the apparent shortfalls of your opinions; you just repeat them.
Is our only disagreement that I think the rejection from a woman is key to the man in most cases that develops misogyny and you think it has nothing to do with it?

The reason I approach this way is it doesn't make sense to me the disagreement you have and my position is not ok for you. So usually when this occurs I look closer in the details, like tracing down the stack until something, the real difference is found.

As you in software, it's likely at one time or another that some marketing person asked you to do something that did not make sense, but it did make sense to them. The process of refining the issue to get an agreement had to occur. That is what we are doing.

I will be delighted if you are able to chance my idea on this, that is how we grow.

If you agree with this assertion, the next step would be to discover why I think the woman's actions have some part in it, and why you think they do not.
User avatar
Sy Borg
Site Admin
Posts: 14997
Joined: December 16th, 2013, 9:05 pm

Re: What is the root cause of misogyny?

Post by Sy Borg »

P-C, I'm largely with Mystery here, although it's hard to say "most cases of misogyny", as that would thorough require surveys that run across various demographics.

Still, put a proportion of misogynists in a happy relationship and their emotions towards women generally will soften. Another proportion will not be able to function in a happy relationship with a woman per se, either due to social or sexuality issues.

Ultimately, people tend to most hate that which they fear. What do men fear of women specifically, that they don't fear of other men?

1) the capacity to induce embarrassment through rejection and ridicule

2) the risk of parenthood

3) the risk of losing half of what they brought into a marriage via divorce settlements.
User avatar
LuckyR
Moderator
Posts: 7935
Joined: January 18th, 2015, 1:16 am

Re: What is the root cause of misogyny?

Post by LuckyR »

Sy Borg wrote: June 18th, 2021, 10:14 pm P-C, I'm largely with Mystery here, although it's hard to say "most cases of misogyny", as that would thorough require surveys that run across various demographics.

Still, put a proportion of misogynists in a happy relationship and their emotions towards women generally will soften. Another proportion will not be able to function in a happy relationship with a woman per se, either due to social or sexuality issues.

Ultimately, people tend to most hate that which they fear. What do men fear of women specifically, that they don't fear of other men?

1) the capacity to induce embarrassment through rejection and ridicule

2) the risk of parenthood

3) the risk of losing half of what they brought into a marriage via divorce settlements.
4) looking inferior to a group you are supposed to be superior to.
"As usual... it depends."
User avatar
Sy Borg
Site Admin
Posts: 14997
Joined: December 16th, 2013, 9:05 pm

Re: What is the root cause of misogyny?

Post by Sy Borg »

LuckyR wrote: June 19th, 2021, 1:09 am
Sy Borg wrote: June 18th, 2021, 10:14 pm P-C, I'm largely with Mystery here, although it's hard to say "most cases of misogyny", as that would thorough require surveys that run across various demographics.

Still, put a proportion of misogynists in a happy relationship and their emotions towards women generally will soften. Another proportion will not be able to function in a happy relationship with a woman per se, either due to social or sexuality issues.

Ultimately, people tend to most hate that which they fear. What do men fear of women specifically, that they don't fear of other men?

1) the capacity to induce embarrassment through rejection and ridicule

2) the risk of parenthood

3) the risk of losing half of what they brought into a marriage via divorce settlements.
4) looking inferior to a group you are supposed to be superior to.
Thanks, spot on.
User avatar
Pattern-chaser
Premium Member
Posts: 8268
Joined: September 22nd, 2019, 5:17 am
Favorite Philosopher: Cratylus
Location: England

Re: What is the root cause of misogyny?

Post by Pattern-chaser »

Sy Borg wrote: June 18th, 2021, 10:14 pm P-C, I'm largely with Mystery here...

How can you tell?

It is not over-simplifying by much to observe that mystery's contribution to our discussion has been two things:
  • that rejection is the direct cause of misogyny, and (when challenged)
  • that it's 100% a man's issue.
As you know, I don't agree with the first of these assertions. But I have posted dozens of questions, and none of them have been answered.

The upshot is that I'm not even sure we disagree. Dialogue might have helped, but so far, there has been none.
Wikipedia wrote:Dialogue is a written or spoken conversational exchange between two or more people...
Without some exchange of views, dialogue cannot occur, and understanding cannot follow.
Pattern-chaser

"Who cares, wins"
User avatar
Pattern-chaser
Premium Member
Posts: 8268
Joined: September 22nd, 2019, 5:17 am
Favorite Philosopher: Cratylus
Location: England

Re: What is the root cause of misogyny?

Post by Pattern-chaser »

Sy Borg wrote: June 18th, 2021, 10:14 pm Still, put a proportion of misogynists in a happy relationship and their emotions towards women generally will soften.
I'm interested to know how a misogynist - a man who hates women - could enter or maintain a "happy relationship" with an object of his hatred? 😉
Pattern-chaser

"Who cares, wins"
User avatar
AmericanKestrel
Posts: 356
Joined: May 22nd, 2021, 6:26 am
Favorite Philosopher: Yagnyavalkya
Location: US

Re: What is the root cause of misogyny?

Post by AmericanKestrel »

To get some clarity on Karens and men. From what I have seen, this train of thought is new to me because I have seen videos, which is mostly how this meme spread, where their venom was reserved for people of color, both men and women. I dont know if some of you are ignoring the race angle on this issue. I have never seen a Karen directed at a white male.
If there is ample evidence of women hating men, not just the man in her life, but men in general,then that hate has rarely been acted upon with rape and sexual violence. Yes there was the Bobbit case, and the fact we can bring it up is proof how rare that is. The anger women have against men is not sexual rejection, it is the denial of their right to their body, their very personhood, equality in opportunities, and the constant sexism at work and other places. The work they do in raising children is devalued. Those are the issues that makes them mad at men because white men control the power most every where.
This is not the same as the topic which misogyny, hatred of women because they are women.
"The Serpent did not lie."
User avatar
AmericanKestrel
Posts: 356
Joined: May 22nd, 2021, 6:26 am
Favorite Philosopher: Yagnyavalkya
Location: US

Re: What is the root cause of misogyny?

Post by AmericanKestrel »

Sy Borg wrote: June 18th, 2021, 10:14 pm P-C, I'm largely with Mystery here, although it's hard to say "most cases of misogyny", as that would thorough require surveys that run across various demographics.

Still, put a proportion of misogynists in a happy relationship and their emotions towards women generally will soften. Another proportion will not be able to function in a happy relationship with a woman per se, either due to social or sexuality issues.

Ultimately, people tend to most hate that which they fear. What do men fear of women specifically, that they don't fear of other men?

1) the capacity to induce embarrassment through rejection and ridicule

2) the risk of parenthood

3) the risk of losing half of what they brought into a marriage via divorce settlements.
These are situations women accept as part of life. It doesnt make them go and commit violence on a man.
"The Serpent did not lie."
User avatar
Sy Borg
Site Admin
Posts: 14997
Joined: December 16th, 2013, 9:05 pm

Re: What is the root cause of misogyny?

Post by Sy Borg »

Pattern-chaser wrote: June 19th, 2021, 7:19 am
Sy Borg wrote: June 18th, 2021, 10:14 pm Still, put a proportion of misogynists in a happy relationship and their emotions towards women generally will soften.
I'm interested to know how a misogynist - a man who hates women - could enter or maintain a "happy relationship" with an object of his hatred? 😉
The man's bad attitude would be an impediment to a happy relationship but not always an insurmountable one. Misogyny is a label for particular immature attitudes, not a life sentence. Marriage and age tend to dampen a portion of residual childishness in adults.
User avatar
LuckyR
Moderator
Posts: 7935
Joined: January 18th, 2015, 1:16 am

Re: What is the root cause of misogyny?

Post by LuckyR »

Pattern-chaser wrote: June 19th, 2021, 7:19 am
Sy Borg wrote: June 18th, 2021, 10:14 pm Still, put a proportion of misogynists in a happy relationship and their emotions towards women generally will soften.
I'm interested to know how a misogynist - a man who hates women - could enter or maintain a "happy relationship" with an object of his hatred? 😉
As long as she is inferior, what's the problem?
"As usual... it depends."
User avatar
mystery
Posts: 380
Joined: May 14th, 2021, 5:41 am
Favorite Philosopher: Mike Tyson
Location: earth

Re: What is the root cause of misogyny?

Post by mystery »

AmericanKestrel wrote: June 19th, 2021, 2:31 pm To get some clarity on Karens and men. From what I have seen, this train of thought is new to me because I have seen videos, which is mostly how this meme spread, where their venom was reserved for people of color, both men and women. I dont know if some of you are ignoring the race angle on this issue. I have never seen a Karen directed at a white male.
If there is ample evidence of women hating men, not just the man in her life, but men in general,then that hate has rarely been acted upon with rape and sexual violence. Yes there was the Bobbit case, and the fact we can bring it up is proof how rare that is. The anger women have against men is not sexual rejection, it is the denial of their right to their body, their very personhood, equality in opportunities, and the constant sexism at work and other places. The work they do in raising children is devalued. Those are the issues that makes them mad at men because white men control the power most every where.
This is not the same as the topic which misogyny, hatred of women because they are women.
I don't mean this sarcastically at all. it is a real question.

Should a white man be required to give his wealth to nonwhite men or to any woman even if he earned it himself, or if his father earned it for him, or his grandfather? Should a non-white man or woman be required to do that same, because they are a woman or not a white man the should be allowed to keep what they earn?

Should I teach my son who is a white man, that he is not allowed to work for and have success because he is a man and is white?
User avatar
mystery
Posts: 380
Joined: May 14th, 2021, 5:41 am
Favorite Philosopher: Mike Tyson
Location: earth

Re: What is the root cause of misogyny?

Post by mystery »

AmericanKestrel wrote: June 19th, 2021, 2:38 pm
Sy Borg wrote: June 18th, 2021, 10:14 pm P-C, I'm largely with Mystery here, although it's hard to say "most cases of misogyny", as that would thorough require surveys that run across various demographics.

Still, put a proportion of misogynists in a happy relationship and their emotions towards women generally will soften. Another proportion will not be able to function in a happy relationship with a woman per se, either due to social or sexuality issues.

Ultimately, people tend to most hate that which they fear. What do men fear of women specifically, that they don't fear of other men?

1) the capacity to induce embarrassment through rejection and ridicule

2) the risk of parenthood

3) the risk of losing half of what they brought into a marriage via divorce settlements.
These are situations women accept as part of life. It doesnt make them go and commit violence on a man.
Yes, they do, they do not rape usually because it is not of interest to them but they do commit social and financial violence on men. Psychological violence is very damaging. Many professional counselors have a full schedule of men that are in emotional chaos due to emotional violence. And then the suicides that are caused from the same.
User avatar
mystery
Posts: 380
Joined: May 14th, 2021, 5:41 am
Favorite Philosopher: Mike Tyson
Location: earth

Re: What is the root cause of misogyny?

Post by mystery »

Pattern-chaser wrote: June 19th, 2021, 7:19 am
Sy Borg wrote: June 18th, 2021, 10:14 pm Still, put a proportion of misogynists in a happy relationship and their emotions towards women generally will soften.
I'm interested to know how a misogynist - a man who hates women - could enter or maintain a "happy relationship" with an object of his hatred? 😉
It doesn't happen often, usually, the man just goes into hermit mode and hangs out with men friends or alone.
User avatar
mystery
Posts: 380
Joined: May 14th, 2021, 5:41 am
Favorite Philosopher: Mike Tyson
Location: earth

Re: What is the root cause of misogyny?

Post by mystery »

Pattern-chaser wrote: June 19th, 2021, 7:13 am
Sy Borg wrote: June 18th, 2021, 10:14 pm P-C, I'm largely with Mystery here...

How can you tell?

It is not over-simplifying by much to observe that mystery's contribution to our discussion has been two things:
  • that rejection is the direct cause of misogyny, and (when challenged)
  • that it's 100% a man's issue.
As you know, I don't agree with the first of these assertions. But I have posted dozens of questions, and none of them have been answered.

The upshot is that I'm not even sure we disagree. Dialogue might have helped, but so far, there has been none.
Wikipedia wrote:Dialogue is a written or spoken conversational exchange between two or more people...
Without some exchange of views, dialogue cannot occur, and understanding cannot follow.
In truth, I do answer the questions you have, but you do not like the answer. In response to that, I have been trying to dig deeper and find the most simple version of our disagreement on this.

For sure the I think it is caused by rejection and you think rejection has nothing to do with it. I am waiting still to get your input on if that is true and you think rejection has nothing to do with this issue. Then we can look closely at the detail of rejection within this issue.
Post Reply

Return to “General Philosophy”

2023/2024 Philosophy Books of the Month

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise
by John K Danenbarger
January 2023

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul
by Mitzi Perdue
February 2023

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness
by Chet Shupe
March 2023

The Unfakeable Code®

The Unfakeable Code®
by Tony Jeton Selimi
April 2023

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are
by Alan Watts
May 2023

Killing Abel

Killing Abel
by Michael Tieman
June 2023

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead
by E. Alan Fleischauer
July 2023

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough
by Mark Unger
August 2023

Predictably Irrational

Predictably Irrational
by Dan Ariely
September 2023

Artwords

Artwords
by Beatriz M. Robles
November 2023

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope
by Dr. Randy Ross
December 2023

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes
by Ali Master
February 2024

2022 Philosophy Books of the Month

Emotional Intelligence At Work

Emotional Intelligence At Work
by Richard M Contino & Penelope J Holt
January 2022

Free Will, Do You Have It?

Free Will, Do You Have It?
by Albertus Kral
February 2022

My Enemy in Vietnam

My Enemy in Vietnam
by Billy Springer
March 2022

2X2 on the Ark

2X2 on the Ark
by Mary J Giuffra, PhD
April 2022

The Maestro Monologue

The Maestro Monologue
by Rob White
May 2022

What Makes America Great

What Makes America Great
by Bob Dowell
June 2022

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!
by Jerry Durr
July 2022

Living in Color

Living in Color
by Mike Murphy
August 2022 (tentative)

The Not So Great American Novel

The Not So Great American Novel
by James E Doucette
September 2022

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches
by John N. (Jake) Ferris
October 2022

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All
by Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
November 2022

The Smartest Person in the Room: The Root Cause and New Solution for Cybersecurity

The Smartest Person in the Room
by Christian Espinosa
December 2022

2021 Philosophy Books of the Month

The Biblical Clock: The Untold Secrets Linking the Universe and Humanity with God's Plan

The Biblical Clock
by Daniel Friedmann
March 2021

Wilderness Cry: A Scientific and Philosophical Approach to Understanding God and the Universe

Wilderness Cry
by Dr. Hilary L Hunt M.D.
April 2021

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute: Tools To Spark Your Dream And Ignite Your Follow-Through

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute
by Jeff Meyer
May 2021

Surviving the Business of Healthcare: Knowledge is Power

Surviving the Business of Healthcare
by Barbara Galutia Regis M.S. PA-C
June 2021

Winning the War on Cancer: The Epic Journey Towards a Natural Cure

Winning the War on Cancer
by Sylvie Beljanski
July 2021

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream
by Dr Frank L Douglas
August 2021

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts
by Mark L. Wdowiak
September 2021

The Preppers Medical Handbook

The Preppers Medical Handbook
by Dr. William W Forgey M.D.
October 2021

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress: A Practical Guide

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress
by Dr. Gustavo Kinrys, MD
November 2021

Dream For Peace: An Ambassador Memoir

Dream For Peace
by Dr. Ghoulem Berrah
December 2021