What is the root cause of misogyny?

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mystery
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Re: What is the root cause of misogyny?

Post by mystery »

Atla wrote: July 22nd, 2021, 11:58 am
Ecurb wrote: July 22nd, 2021, 10:40 am If a man abuses a woman, it DOES cause him to hate her. He MUST either admit to being an a-hole, or justify his actions by claiming, "She deserved it."
What an outlandish thing to say, most abusers don't "hate" their victims, they just abuse them. They usually don't care how they are seen.
I am considering this, I would default to what you tell on this. But having been on the receiving side in the past I felt like I was hated and other men also have the same ideas. I now know it was not so and was instead greed and shame being projected, many men eventually see that as they recover.
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Re: What is the root cause of misogyny?

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We have all heard it from abusers, it shouts at you this individual is not ok!
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Re: What is the root cause of misogyny?

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That's directed in response to mystery.
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mystery
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Re: What is the root cause of misogyny?

Post by mystery »

popeye1945 wrote: July 22nd, 2021, 10:14 pm We have all heard it from abusers, it shouts at you this individual is not ok!
Are you in support of misogyny being primarily caused because of men's abuse of women ?
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Re: What is the root cause of misogyny?

Post by Atla »

Ecurb wrote: July 22nd, 2021, 7:47 pm
Atla wrote: July 22nd, 2021, 11:58 am
What an outlandish thing to say, most abusers don't "hate" their victims, they just abuse them. They usually don't care how they are seen.
The school of social psychology that studies this phenomenon is "Symbolic Interactionism". Practitioners such as Erving Goffman postulated that "cognitive dissonance" occurs when one's self-image is contradicted by the image one sees reflected back from other people. Everyone cares how he or she is seen. People will jump through many hoops to protect their self-image -- even going so far as learning to hate their victims.

Abusers are notorious for blaming their victims. Why? Well, they have to blame someone, and they'd prefer to avoid blaiming themselves.

Don't you think many of the torturers at Guantanamo learn to despise Muslim Terrorists? Even if they didn't hate them before they began their tortures, they would learn to detest them in order to justify their actions.
Some abusers learn to hate their victims, which is a very active emotion, and this often has to do with self-image issues reflected back at them.

You are totally ignoring the majority of abuse going on in this world which isn't accompanied by this active emotion, but by a lack of empathy / lack of compassion / general genuine malignance. They don't even perceive their victims as human enough in order to hate them, or aren't fully human themselves. Such abusers are even better at blaming the victim, but this has nothing to do with self-image issues.
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Re: What is the root cause of misogyny?

Post by popeye1945 »

mystery wrote: July 22nd, 2021, 11:37 pm
popeye1945 wrote: July 22nd, 2021, 10:14 pm We have all heard it from abusers, it shouts at you this individual is not ok!
Are you in support of misogyny being primarily caused because of men's abuse of women ?
Hi mystery,
No, there is a whole history misused in the present that leads to under valuation of the female, just as there is an under appreciation of the male role in the past, it hasn't been an easy course for either, but males need to do some re-evaluation in the present, and check their false egos at the door.
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Re: What is the root cause of misogyny?

Post by mystery »

popeye1945 wrote: July 22nd, 2021, 11:47 pm
mystery wrote: July 22nd, 2021, 11:37 pm
popeye1945 wrote: July 22nd, 2021, 10:14 pm We have all heard it from abusers, it shouts at you this individual is not ok!
Are you in support of misogyny being primarily caused because of men's abuse of women ?
Hi mystery,
No, there is a whole history misused in the present that leads to under valuation of the female, just as there is an under appreciation of the male role in the past, it hasn't been an easy course for either, but males need to do some re-evaluation in the present, and check their false egos at the door.
Can you expand just a bit on how / what those are?
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Re: What is the root cause of misogyny?

Post by popeye1945 »

Well, in more primary cultures there is not the problem of one sex being under-evaluated both functioned as a unit, necessarily I might add, as that is how our ancestors survived. Context has a way of defining, like a word within a sentence. Context has changed very rapidly and the turmoil we are experiencing is symptomatic of that, interesting it is the same drama unfolding with our ill adaptation to our environment. Biology does not follow fashion but long-term it better adapt to long-term context/environment. Turmoil and conflict are the names of the game, trouble, only death is no trouble. It is understandable that people are having difficulty adapting to societal change which happens so quickly. Males need not to fight it so intently live within the times and try not to live today in by yesterdays context.
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Re: What is the root cause of misogyny?

Post by mystery »

popeye1945 wrote: July 23rd, 2021, 1:21 am Well, in more primary cultures there is not the problem of one sex being under-evaluated both functioned as a unit, necessarily I might add, as that is how our ancestors survived. Context has a way of defining, like a word within a sentence. Context has changed very rapidly and the turmoil we are experiencing is symptomatic of that, interesting it is the same drama unfolding with our ill adaptation to our environment. Biology does not follow fashion but long-term it better adapt to long-term context/environment. Turmoil and conflict are the names of the game, trouble, only death is no trouble. It is understandable that people are having difficulty adapting to societal change which happens so quickly. Males need not to fight it so intently live within the times and try not to live today in by yesterdays context.
thanks, that's a fair view.

the huge and gigantic problem, and issue, and reason it can not be like that is that females still choose the males that fight. It is hard-wired. If the male follows with what you suggest, they become a servant of the female and another male will be the father of the children. It happens over and over and over.

If the female would be loyal to the type of man you suggest, all would be well. But the female will want children that are fighters, it is still built into them (the female).

I can remember spending much time working in a different forum where women would ask advice about how to manage a relationship issues. VERY often the topic question was they wanted to know why they did not want to be with the man they married and they knew he was a good man and worshiped the ground they walked on. It was always the same, they had found another man that excited them. Not just one example, hundreds. I have other data as I am aware of much on the topic, but this point is the one that I tell to reinforce this comment/idea.

Pls do disagree and argue, I would be delighted to be educated to know a different truth.

Many misogynists are simply men that have been abused by women and had not been prepared for such things. Basically innocent and they went to rage because of no context for understanding. The other ones are when the man is so unattractive to women that all or almost all reject him without even an interview or chance.

I still remember many of the women in that forum, they knew that the man was going to be crushed. Most eventually went with the approach that life is short and they needed to move on to feel good again. Some would return later and tell how the new guy was a fake or did not commit to her.
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Re: What is the root cause of misogyny?

Post by sunil808 »

Cicero reports that Greek philosophers considered misogyny to be caused by gynophobia, a fear of women. It is the same with other diseases; as the desire of glory, a passion for women, to which the Greeks give the name of philogyneia: and thus all other diseases and sicknesses are generated.
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Re: What is the root cause of misogyny?

Post by popeye1945 »

sunil808 wrote: July 23rd, 2021, 11:18 am Cicero reports that Greek philosophers considered misogyny to be caused by gynophobia, a fear of women. It is the same with other diseases; as the desire of glory, a passion for women, to which the Greeks give the name of philogyneia: and thus all other diseases and sicknesses are generated.
Sun,
Excellent, the fear of women has to be at least one big part of it. When one is highly attracted to a woman, and you work up the courage to approach you are putting yourself in a highly vulnerable spot, yes, dam sure a big piece of it.
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Re: What is the root cause of misogyny?

Post by AmericanKestrel »

mystery wrote: July 22nd, 2021, 9:58 pm
popeye1945 wrote: July 22nd, 2021, 9:12 pm The Bitches, they just won't listen, look what they make me do!
yep, that's a man with no self-control, not masculine at all but emotional like a female.
Do you realize that this is a sexist statement? Both men and women have emotions, and how the express the emotion is individual, not gender based. Men can cry and women can be stoic.
"The Serpent did not lie."
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Re: What is the root cause of misogyny?

Post by AmericanKestrel »

sunil808 wrote: July 23rd, 2021, 11:18 am Cicero reports that Greek philosophers considered misogyny to be caused by gynophobia, a fear of women. It is the same with other diseases; as the desire of glory, a passion for women, to which the Greeks give the name of philogyneia: and thus all other diseases and sicknesses are generated.
That is what I have been saying from the start. We hate what we fear and women cause fear in men. But why?
"The Serpent did not lie."
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Re: What is the root cause of misogyny?

Post by AmericanKestrel »

popeye1945 wrote: July 23rd, 2021, 1:25 pm
sunil808 wrote: July 23rd, 2021, 11:18 am Cicero reports that Greek philosophers considered misogyny to be caused by gynophobia, a fear of women. It is the same with other diseases; as the desire of glory, a passion for women, to which the Greeks give the name of philogyneia: and thus all other diseases and sicknesses are generated.
Sun,
Excellent, the fear of women has to be at least one big part of it. When one is highly attracted to a woman, and you work up the courage to approach you are putting yourself in a highly vulnerable spot, yes, dam sure a big piece of it.
Misogyny is not about sex and intercourse. It is about power and control, and basis of that is fear.
"The Serpent did not lie."
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Re: What is the root cause of misogyny?

Post by popeye1945 »

Fear of rejection is very real, it is in this sense the utter lack of power. For a male who is very insecure, this can surely lead to resentment and misogyny of love hate if somewhat distanced relation. The women being the keeper of the gate itself may feed some resentment.
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