What is the root cause of misogyny?

[AmericanKestrel]

A recent topic about what we inherit from our mothers spurred this thought.
Every religion, and every society, in all times have demonstrated hatred of women in vile to subtle ways. Yet women are one half of the human race, and importantly the only means of propagating the species as possessors of a uterus.
Racism, and caste, as evil as it is, is ultimately, in truth, a convenient construct as a means of exploitation. Female sex is not a construct. They have always worked as hard as men, even through pregnancy, And bear children, the future farm hands. What was the natural benefit in the hate and oppression?
What is the pay off?

A few things I can think of that spurs this hatred:
Vagina/uterus envy.
They are property that can be stolen, elope, and thus a liability.
They can seduce one to lose his senses.
Men are naturally gay, and thus women are competition.
We hate that which we fear. What is the cause of fear?
What do you think?

The route cause of misogyny is women. It happens when cultural norms get challenged by women and the term gets invented, whereas before the roles of men and women were set by cultural norms, a point is raised through social change or observations of other cultures where differences are noted and inequalities in opportunities are recognised and this causes reflections upon society in general.

This has nothing to do with envy, as the establishment of roles have originally stemmed from situations of practicality. Human societies from hunter/gatherers to modern societies have all developed horizontal strata which have focussed on abilities and capacities. Men being physically stronger were expected to defend, protect and hunt whereas the women ruled the home and hearth. Though many H/G societies had a massive range of variations, with men involved in child care and women hunting, it seems that the societies from which the Germanic/Latin/Greek worlds evolved had strong gender differentiation. and it is through this that we have our norms. Such differentiation led to privilege and traditional views which led to shame for men wanting to do women's work and vice versa, as if that were natural.

The clash of cultures following the opening up of the world in the last few 100 years shows that our simple traditions were not natural and allowed reflections across the board through race, class and gender. Thus misogyny is, like racism, a reaction and resistence to change.

Racism is not merely resistance to change, it is a construction of a status as inferior, of less intelligence and so on, and thus a system of exploitation and forced labor. Biologically there is no difference among races. Racism is unnatural, it is imposed, a systematic means for oppression and exploitation. It punishes change, it is not caused by change.
I can see how misogyny can be a response and resistance to change. But demand for change did not happen until late in time, a modern sense of equality and ability when physical strength is replaced by machinery. And it makes no sense because women have always been part of the labor force, of the same race, who keep home and family safe. Their contribution is equal but is not counted as such because of misogyny. That they bear children by itself adds tremendous value that cannot be replaced. They should be treated a goddesses for that alone, creating something out of their own body and becoming food.

[value]

Ecofeminism and its origin may be of interest.

(2022) Is Ecofeminism the Answer?
A philosophy conceptualized in the 1970s, ecofeminism maintains that patriarchal power structures rely on both the oppression of women and destruction of the natural world. Professor Susan Dobscha contends that collaborative, compassionate messaging is key to fostering sustainable behavior.
https://www.bentley.edu/news/ecofeminis ... ate-crisis

Destruction of nature and women seem to have went hand-in-hand.

I recently read the following on this forum:

Genesis 3.22: The Lord God fashioned into a woman the rib which He had taken from the man, and brought her to the man.

This seems to give rise to the idea that women are an addition for men and that males are primary.

How about the following ideas:

- Mother Earth
- Mother Nature

The Maya's considered the black hole at the centre of the Milky Way to be the Mother of the Universe.

Mayans view on the “black hole” in the Milky Way galaxy: "mother of the Universe"
Why did the Maya call the dark rift in the center of the galaxy “the mother of the universe”? The Mayans seem to have their own unique understanding of the birth of stars and their relationship with black holes.
https://newsbeezer.com/taiwaneng/the-bl ... -universe/

As it appears, ancient beliefs have resulted in the idea that woman or female spirit is primary - the source - and that men followed later as an addition.

Human men developed themselves to be physically stronger perhaps to overcome the fundamental disposition of weakness that results from being an add-on for something that is primary. As an add-on they are measured by their performance as a physically finite servant while a primary source would be measured by a priori intellectual capacities of infinite nature.

This is a reason why the apparent lack of females in philosophy might be a big miss, although it also seems that females are not attracted to the philosophical endeavour as it is developed by men. Perhaps as being the primary source in humanity, they don't mind standing aside from manly philosophy while in the same time having access to wisdom that surpasses that of men who practice it. A type of wisdom that might be different than conceivable of by men. (I simply wonder if this would be the case, it is a wild suggestion in the face of the fact that there are almost no females in today's philosophy).

Why are there almost no females in philosophy?
While there have been women philosophers since the earliest times, and a few were accepted as philosophers during their lives, almost no woman philosophers have entered the philosophical Western canon. Only in the past 25 years there has been a small change with the emergence of feminist philosophy, which is a political philosophy.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=17558

In ancient Egyptian religion, Ma’at is the Goddess of Truth, Wisdom, Justice and Morality. She represented leadership, philosophy and law.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maat

Lady Justice is an allegorical personification of the moral force in judicial systems.

Morality involves eternity (eternal wisdom).

[value]

Gaia Philosophy is a female name for a spirit that supposedly encompasses nature on Earth.

[Wizard22]

A recent topic about what we inherit from our mothers spurred this thought.
Every religion, and every society, in all times have demonstrated hatred of women in vile to subtle ways. Yet women are one half of the human race, and importantly the only means of propagating the species as possessors of a uterus.
Racism, and caste, as evil as it is, is ultimately, in truth, a convenient construct as a means of exploitation. Female sex is not a construct. They have always worked as hard as men, even through pregnancy, And bear children, the future farm hands. What was the natural benefit in the hate and oppression?
What is the pay off?

A few things I can think of that spurs this hatred:
Vagina/uterus envy.
They are property that can be stolen, elope, and thus a liability.
They can seduce one to lose his senses.
Men are naturally gay, and thus women are competition.
We hate that which we fear. What is the cause of fear?
What do you think?

First of all I disagree with "always worked as hard as men". Physically and objectively, this is simply and obviously false. Men do more "hard" work by a factor of 100, in terms of physical work (Load and Weight), and Risk-factor. Males die overwhelmingly in work related deaths compared to females.

So onto my response....

I believe that the Female gender is intrinsically Privileged compared to Males. Male is the 'Expendable' gender, the "throw-away", the low-value, of genders. I believe this is Natural. Females facilitate sexual reproduction, and this means that males generally sacrifice for them.

Because this is Natural, it causes Males to be Resentful. Young males want to be "Equal" to the Privilege of Women. This is why, even right now, overwhelmingly more male transexuals transition and pretend to be Women and Feminine, compared to the opposite, females pretending to be Men. The numbers don't add up. People need to account for this discrepancy. So it returns to "Female Privilege" and Male Resentiment.

But it's even worse than this. Not only are males the Expendable gender, we are Gaslit from an early age, that "men and women are Equal", when this is not true. Basically it's a Lie. It's a Big Lie. So this fuels the male Resentiment. Most males don't wake up to these Lies, and are forced to believe in them, obey them, and never question them. If a male says that "Females are privileged, NOT males!" then he is a "Misogynist" and a "Woman-Hater". Even though the exact-opposite is true. Stating Facts about Nature is not "Misogyny". Discussing Female Privilege objectively, is not "hating women". It is merely revealing obvious and common sense statements about the relationship between men and women, for all time.


Men can be Truthful, without being "hateful".

Why?

Because myself, and most men, LOVE women, not hate them. I cherish women, my sister, my mother, my daughter, my wife. I can accept Female Privilege. I can defend it. I can agree with the idea, that sinking on the Titanic, my wife and daughter should get primacy position on the Life boats, before myself and other men.

Do you disagree?

[value]

The Never Ending Story may illustrate the story of men and women: a spiritual princess and a warrior that lives and performs for her.

The Neverending Story (German: Die unendliche Geschichte) is a fantasy novel by German writer Michael Ende, published in 1979.

The story is set in the magical land of Fantastica, a place of wonder ruled by a benevolent and mysterious female Empress. A great delegation has come to the Empress to seek her help against a formless entity called "The Nothing". The delegates are shocked when the Empress's physician informs them that the Empress is ill, and has chosen a male warrior named Atreyu to find a cure.

At the advice of the giant turtle Morla the Aged One (World Turtle Philosophy), Atreyu sets off in search of an invisible oracle known as Uyulala, who may know the Empress's cure. In reaching her, he is aided by a luckdragon named Falkor. By Uyulala, he is told the only thing that can save the Empress is a new name given to her by a human, who can only be found beyond Fantastica's borders.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Neverending_Story

[Sculptor1]

A recent topic about what we inherit from our mothers spurred this thought.
Every religion, and every society, in all times have demonstrated hatred of women in vile to subtle ways. Yet women are one half of the human race, and importantly the only means of propagating the species as possessors of a uterus.
Racism, and caste, as evil as it is, is ultimately, in truth, a convenient construct as a means of exploitation. Female sex is not a construct. They have always worked as hard as men, even through pregnancy, And bear children, the future farm hands. What was the natural benefit in the hate and oppression?
What is the pay off?

A few things I can think of that spurs this hatred:
Vagina/uterus envy.
They are property that can be stolen, elope, and thus a liability.
They can seduce one to lose his senses.
Men are naturally gay, and thus women are competition.
We hate that which we fear. What is the cause of fear?
What do you think?

The route cause of misogyny is women. It happens when cultural norms get challenged by women and the term gets invented, whereas before the roles of men and women were set by cultural norms, a point is raised through social change or observations of other cultures where differences are noted and inequalities in opportunities are recognised and this causes reflections upon society in general.

This has nothing to do with envy, as the establishment of roles have originally stemmed from situations of practicality. Human societies from hunter/gatherers to modern societies have all developed horizontal strata which have focussed on abilities and capacities. Men being physically stronger were expected to defend, protect and hunt whereas the women ruled the home and hearth. Though many H/G societies had a massive range of variations, with men involved in child care and women hunting, it seems that the societies from which the Germanic/Latin/Greek worlds evolved had strong gender differentiation. and it is through this that we have our norms. Such differentiation led to privilege and traditional views which led to shame for men wanting to do women's work and vice versa, as if that were natural.

The clash of cultures following the opening up of the world in the last few 100 years shows that our simple traditions were not natural and allowed reflections across the board through race, class and gender. Thus misogyny is, like racism, a reaction and resistence to change.

Racism is not merely resistance to change, it is a construction of a status as inferior, of less intelligence and so on, and thus a system of exploitation and forced labor.

But that is a given. Racism is a feature of the 19 & 20thCs and emerges in response to black people and other non-white groups of people challenging the norms. It is really only with the abolitionist and emancipation movements that racism becomes a systematic way of thinking.

Biologically there is no difference among races. Racism is unnatural, it is imposed, a systematic means for oppression and exploitation. It punishes change, it is not caused by change.

Obviously

I can see how misogyny can be a response and resistance to change. But demand for change did not happen until late in time, a modern sense of equality and ability when physical strength is replaced by machinery. And it makes no sense because women have always been part of the labor force, of the same race, who keep home and family safe. Their contribution is equal but is not counted as such because of misogyny. That they bear children by itself adds tremendous value that cannot be replaced. They should be treated a goddesses for that alone, creating something out of their own body and becoming food.

The Greeks had many such goddesses, as did Rome and many other pre-Christian cultures. They were so powerful that Christianity has to borrow the idea for "Madre Dios".
It's all downhill for women from then until the late enlightenment.

[AmericanKestrel]

Sculptor, are you saying racism and misogyny only exist because labels were invented for what is exploitation, oppression, and suppression? So labels are the cause for both, not actions of willful exploitation and oppression?

[AmericanKestrel]

A recent topic about what we inherit from our mothers spurred this thought.
Every religion, and every society, in all times have demonstrated hatred of women in vile to subtle ways. Yet women are one half of the human race, and importantly the only means of propagating the species as possessors of a uterus.
Racism, and caste, as evil as it is, is ultimately, in truth, a convenient construct as a means of exploitation. Female sex is not a construct. They have always worked as hard as men, even through pregnancy, And bear children, the future farm hands. What was the natural benefit in the hate and oppression?
What is the pay off?

A few things I can think of that spurs this hatred:
Vagina/uterus envy.
They are property that can be stolen, elope, and thus a liability.
They can seduce one to lose his senses.
Men are naturally gay, and thus women are competition.
We hate that which we fear. What is the cause of fear?
What do you think?

First of all I disagree with "always worked as hard as men". Physically and objectively, this is simply and obviously false. Men do more "hard" work by a factor of 100, in terms of physical work (Load and Weight), and Risk-factor. Males die overwhelmingly in work related deaths compared to females.

So onto my response....

I believe that the Female gender is intrinsically Privileged compared to Males. Male is the 'Expendable' gender, the "throw-away", the low-value, of genders. I believe this is Natural. Females facilitate sexual reproduction, and this means that males generally sacrifice for them.

Because this is Natural, it causes Males to be Resentful. Young males want to be "Equal" to the Privilege of Women. This is why, even right now, overwhelmingly more male transexuals transition and pretend to be Women and Feminine, compared to the opposite, females pretending to be Men. The numbers don't add up. People need to account for this discrepancy. So it returns to "Female Privilege" and Male Resentiment.

But it's even worse than this. Not only are males the Expendable gender, we are Gaslit from an early age, that "men and women are Equal", when this is not true. Basically it's a Lie. It's a Big Lie. So this fuels the male Resentiment. Most males don't wake up to these Lies, and are forced to believe in them, obey them, and never question them. If a male says that "Females are privileged, NOT males!" then he is a "Misogynist" and a "Woman-Hater". Even though the exact-opposite is true. Stating Facts about Nature is not "Misogyny". Discussing Female Privilege objectively, is not "hating women". It is merely revealing obvious and common sense statements about the relationship between men and women, for all time.


Men can be Truthful, without being "hateful".

Why?

Because myself, and most men, LOVE women, not hate them. I cherish women, my sister, my mother, my daughter, my wife. I can accept Female Privilege. I can defend it. I can agree with the idea, that sinking on the Titanic, my wife and daughter should get primacy position on the Life boats, before myself and other men.

Do you disagree?

Can you provide any data to your statement that more males transition to female than the other way around? I didn’t find any.
Transgendering have many valid biological and psychological reasons than something you call women privilege. Nobody ever told women they are are equal, so i dont know how men got gaslit as you claim. Women had to fight for equality in pay,credit, property rights, just about for everything just to be human.

[Wizard22]

Yes of course, I thought it was common sense, but I see you need some facts and evidence:

https://www.zippia.com/coal-miner-jobs/demographics/

"Research Summary. Using a database of 30 million profiles, Zippia estimates demographics and statistics for coal miners in the United States. Our estimates are verified against BLS, Census, and current job openings data for accuracy. After extensive research and analysis, Zippia's data science team found that:

There are over 13,185 coal miners currently employed in the United States.
3.8% of all coal miners are women, while 96.2% are men."

[Wizard22]

https://www.themuse.com/advice/women-in ... ront-lines

"The Defense Department recently announced new policies that will open more than 14,000 military job opportunities to women. Which seems like a great step—except that more than 200,000 positions will still remain exclusive to men, from front-line infantry positions to high-level special operations roles.

Why? According to a press release, “the department recognizes there are practical barriers that require time to resolve to ensure the services maximize the safety and privacy of all service members while maintaining military readiness.”

But others see things differently: “[According to researchers], traditional attitudes make many people both uncomfortable with the idea of women fighting and unable to handle the image of mothers coming home in body bags,” says Discovery News. They also note, “there are also concerns that women will interfere with group bonding and cohesion—the same arguments that long interfered with the integration of African Americans and gay people into the military.”

So we decided to go straight to the source: We asked women who have served in the armed forces how they feel about the decision, and their thoughts on what it will really take to achieve gender equality in the military. Here's what we found out.

[Wizard22]

So now, with this data, evidence, and facts in mind....it makes sense that male-to-female Transexual conversion is immensely more popular than female-to-male.

Young males want Female Privilege, but young females do not want "Male Privilege", because the latter is evidently, and obviously, a myth.

[Astro Cat]

So now, with this data, evidence, and facts in mind....it makes sense that male-to-female Transexual conversion is immensely more popular than female-to-male.

Young males want Female Privilege, but young females do not want "Male Privilege", because the latter is evidently, and obviously, a myth.

Male privilege is not a myth, and the rates of FTM transitions have skyrocketed especially for young people. I can elucidate when back at a keyboard.

[Wizard22]

"Skyrocketed" from 1/100th to 1/10th?

It's still a small minority, don't stretch the facts.

[Astro Cat]

"Skyrocketed" from 1/100th to 1/10th?

It's still a small minority, don't stretch the facts.

Still not at a keyboard, but for instance this 2020 paper states

Consistent with many reports, we are seeing an increasing number of gender dysphoric individuals seeking hormonal therapy. The age at initiation has been dropping over the past 25 years, and we have seen a steady increase in the number of FTM such that the incidence now equals that of MTF. Possible reasons for these changes are discussed.

Emphasis added.

I have a lot to say about your ideas about privilege, but it will have to wait until likely Monday. I’m needing to sleep and leaving town when I wake up.

[AmericanKestrel]

So now, with this data, evidence, and facts in mind....it makes sense that male-to-female Transexual conversion is immensely more popular than female-to-male.

Young males want Female Privilege, but young females do not want "Male Privilege", because the latter is evidently, and obviously, a myth.

Where are you getting your numbers on how many women and men transitioned? It might make sense to you personally that men want “women privilege”, but that is not data. That is just opinion.