What is the root cause of misogyny?

[Pattern-chaser]

The rejection action is in the path of the issue. Until the man can understand that he can not learn to address it.

I keep telling over and over that we are not putting the blame on women in this case. The issue is with men.

Yes, you've said this a number of times. ... And then, in every case, you have repeated your belief that the - "the", singular, not "a" - cause of misogyny is a woman's rejection of a man. Let's see:

For men to solve the issue they must accept that it is the rejection that is the issue and then figures out why that happened...

...

But the cause is still the same; rejection.

Rejection is not the issue, and it is not the cause of misogyny. Rejection is a trigger, that much we can agree on. Rejection is, as you say, "in the path of the issue". But the cause of misogyny is surely the man's reaction to the rejection? Such rejection is a normal part of human social life. The aberrant response to it is not normal, it is the response of an abnormal man: a misogynist. The problem lies with him.

[AmericanKestrel]

We cannot go out with a transparent bag full of dollar bills hanging from our shoulder either without risking an attack.

Just as women in today's human world cannot go out dressed in their mating plumage without some man deciding to forcibly mate her? I do not deny this is so, but do we find it acceptable? It is ours to change, if we choose to...?

But the fact is women and girls fully clothed are assaulted in daylight. Athletic wear worn while jogging is not an invitation for sex.

No clothing is such an invitation. No-one invites any form of assault, whether it be robbery or rape.

Bolded: of course it is not acceptable, no violence is. We all should have absolute freedom. As long as we live is this world and transact with this world it remains an idea. There is no such thing as absolute freedom. There are no absolute anything. We are free to test it of course and some time we will succeed and more often fail. So we carry dollar bills concealed. That is why robbery and rape are crimes. How the victim was dressed is not a defense.

[Ecurb]

The same Christian chivalry that valued (even worshipped) women also promulgated misogyny. The almost heretical cults of the Virgin Mary lauded virginity; but male lust deplored it. The Christian Knight was sworn to protect and value women; but his chvalry, like the "women and children first" notion of British seamen, equated women with helpless children. Of course the laws of the era, under which a husband acquired all of his wife's possessions, required him to see her as helpless and incompetent in order to justify this abuse. This is often the case: although prejudice sometimes leads to discrimination, the reverse is also true. Myths of the inferiority of those of African descent were required to justify slavery; myths about the helpessness and inferiority of women were required to support male dominance is politics, the economy, and the home.

[mystery]

rejection. It is exactly equal to blaming the victim for how she dressed, her sexual activity, or how late she was out at night.

The dressing for attention is a real issue and a choice. Time and locations are also. Places exist that I do not walk at night alone because common sense tells me that I may end up having to fight when I really would prefer not to. So I don't go to that place at that time.

Don't assume cause equals blame. We do not blame water if it flows downhill, it just does so.

Cause and blame are two very different things. Water flowing downhill is cause for my basement flooding. And it is water that is flooding not rabbits. I need to address the water situation and make it not flow away from my house.
We have to make misogynists take their hate elsewhere. The hate is not what all rejected men display, some sick individuals do.
The solution is not to move my house away from the hill, but make the water behave. Grandmothers minding their own business get raped, not because they are showing cleavage. 12 year olds get raped. Women in suits get raped. This is about how women are viewed as commodity to be used by men. It is hate.

This is a difficult topic, both men and women suffer from the situation.

In my analogy, the water is a woman. The woman will do what she does just as water will flow. A woman will and should reject what she does not want. This is a men's issue to solve not women's.

Rejection as the cause does not assign blame. However, the man/men must understand it if ever it will be solved.

Violent rape is bad, we agree on that.

So we can put chains on the man and stop him or a bullet in his head to stop him or we can teach him how to improve so that he is accepted sometimes.

One really key point is that the hate usually does not result in violence in this case, such as rape. Much more often it results in a man becoming like a hermit and living alone and dying isolated. Rape like any other violent crime should be prevented by force if needed.

In this topic, there is nothing for a woman to need to defend or explain because she does nothing wrong. Rejecting what she does not want is healthy.

The woman that is rejecting does nothing wrong by rejecting. Do we agree ?
At the same time, the man can have a negative emotion because of the rejection. Do we agree?

[mystery]

The rejection action is in the path of the issue. Until the man can understand that he can not learn to address it.

I keep telling over and over that we are not putting the blame on women in this case. The issue is with men.

Yes, you've said this a number of times. ... And then, in every case, you have repeated your belief that the - "the", singular, not "a" - cause of misogyny is a woman's rejection of a man. Let's see:

For men to solve the issue they must accept that it is the rejection that is the issue and then figures out why that happened...

...

But the cause is still the same; rejection.

Rejection is not the issue, and it is not the cause of misogyny. Rejection is a trigger, that much we can agree on. Rejection is, as you say, "in the path of the issue". But the cause of misogyny is surely the man's reaction to the rejection? Such rejection is a normal part of human social life. The aberrant response to it is not normal, it is the response of an abnormal man: a misogynist. The problem lies with him.

This point is so very key in this issue.

Rejection is or can be the cause.

The rejection is the result of a healthy woman that is acting in her own best interest just as she should. The woman does the good thing. Many women understand this in detail and will try very hard to be kind in how the rejection is done. Some are not kind at all.

We do or SHOULD not blame the woman.

The BLAME IS ON THE MAN. Think... why is he rejected and what is his reaction of the same. Those are the issues to solve. But before he can do so it must be clear what is occurring so that his solutions will actually work. If he does not understand about the rejection, all of his solutions will not help because they will not work.

[mystery]

The same Christian chivalry that valued (even worshipped) women also promulgated misogyny. The almost heretical cults of the Virgin Mary lauded virginity; but male lust deplored it. The Christian Knight was sworn to protect and value women; but his chvalry, like the "women and children first" notion of British seamen, equated women with helpless children. Of course the laws of the era, under which a husband acquired all of his wife's possessions, required him to see her as helpless and incompetent in order to justify this abuse. This is often the case: although prejudice sometimes leads to discrimination, the reverse is also true. Myths of the inferiority of those of African descent were required to justify slavery; myths about the helpessness and inferiority of women were required to support male dominance is politics, the economy, and the home.

good point.

How I see it is that women are equivalent to men and both have equal value but are not equal.

The same as a nut and a bolt, both have an equal value of the function but they are different. Using two bolts does not work.

Trying to change a nut into a bolt ends with lots of broken stuff that can not hold together.

[Pattern-chaser]

Rejection is or can be the cause.

• Take one step back, and we can see that the man's request (for sex) is the direct (and indisputable?) cause of the rejection, which in turn can cause a hateful reaction if the man is a misogynist.
• Take another step back, and we can see that the man's apparent need (for sex) is the direct cause of his request. So really, it's biology, evolution, and the survival of the species that is the ultimate cause of misogyny? No, I don't think it is. But this, I think, is a direct extension of your thinking.

Whether we consider misogyny to be a mental illness or something milder - maybe a 'personality trait'? - there are a few things we know about it.

• It is not the 'norm'; it is not normal.
• Most men do not suffer from it, although they too are subjected to rejection.
• It is hatred, not mere animosity.
• There is a distinction between misogyny, the condition, and any expression of hatred (etc) resulting from it.
• A cure may not be possible, just as paedophiles cannot be 'cured'.
• Last but not least: no blame or fault, direct or indirect, lies with the victim.

Your investigation of the social interactions between women and misogynists may be the wrong place to look for a cause. I suggest that we might look into the mind and the personality of the misogynist, where the 'cause' of misogyny might be easier to discover? After all, would we examine young children to discover a cause for paedophilia? No, we would look at the mind and personality of the paedophile.

[mystery]

Rejection is or can be the cause.

• Take one step back, and we can see that the man's request (for sex) is the direct (and indisputable?) cause of the rejection, which in turn can cause a hateful reaction if the man is a misogynist.
• Take another step back, and we can see that the man's apparent need (for sex) is the direct cause of his request. So really, it's biology, evolution, and the survival of the species that is the ultimate cause of misogyny? No, I don't think it is. But this, I think, is a direct extension of your thinking.

Whether we consider misogyny to be a mental illness or something milder - maybe a 'personality trait'? - there are a few things we know about it.

• It is not the 'norm'; it is not normal.
• Most men do not suffer from it, although they too are subjected to rejection.
• It is hatred, not mere animosity.
• There is a distinction between misogyny, the condition, and any expression of hatred (etc) resulting from it.
• A cure may not be possible, just as paedophiles cannot be 'cured'.
• Last but not least: no blame or fault, direct or indirect, lies with the victim.

Your investigation of the social interactions between women and misogynists may be the wrong place to look for a cause. I suggest that we might look into the mind and the personality of the misogynist, where the 'cause' of misogyny might be easier to discover? After all, would we examine young children to discover a cause for paedophilia? No, we would look at the mind and personality of the paedophile.

you're close.

The cause for rejection is the woman's does not want that man. Next, why does she reject one man and accept another? This is what the man needs to learn.

I don't think it is a mental illness, but some do try to hide behind that to avoid shame and blame. Oh.. I have a mental illness so pls excuse me for being a jerk. This doesn't work.

Most men are not subject to rejection by almost all or all women. Most men are not subject to rejection by a woman who previously accepted them.

You're still trying to protect women and the goodness of women from this topic. But it is not needed, no blame is placed either directly or indirectly. At least one other member is also telling the same as you on this. I do not blame women for this. Not sure how to tell that or spell it out or hammer it in. Women are not at fault in this. One more time. This is a men's issue, not women. However, the cause is rejection.

You reject eating rocks and mud. Sure, but does that make you bad or at fault? No, it makes you smart and wise. It is the same when a woman rejects what they do not want.

Let's try it differently.

If no women exist, would any men hate women?
If women always accept men, would any men hate women? Some special cases on this that can be a yes, but generally it is no.

I assume you answer no to both of those.

The OP question is what is the root cause. To get the the root cause we have to follow the proper cause path. If we don't we can never get the right answer. The rejection is not really the final cause but it is in the path. We can not find the next step until we can admit this one. It is a difficult first step in this puzzle.

[Pattern-chaser]

We can not find the next step until we can admit this one. It is a difficult first step in this puzzle.

You write as though the main problem here is our inability to face an obvious truth that is staring us in the face, if we did but have the courage to face it. I really don't think this is the case. The problem here is not rejection, or even women. The problem is that misogyny and misogynists exist. This topic seeks to determine the "root cause" of misogyny, not to describe how women (or their innocent and reasonable actions) are the cause of misogyny.

Misogyny affects (infects?) men, whose hate-driven actions, in turn, impact upon innocent women. If we wish to find a cause, I suggest we might be more successful by looking at the men who are misogynists, not investigating how rejection by women is "the cause" of misogyny.

Some work, at least, has been done. I cannot attest to its correctness or scientific rigour, but at least someone has made the effort, and published something:

As of 2014, patriarchal cultures and social organizations, religious orthodoxy, intergroup violence and kinship structures favoring fraternity over conjugal unity are believed to be the major factors that contribute to the development and propagation of misogyny. Cultures of consumerism and entitlement, which emphasize potential happiness through ownership of property and imply an inherent right to this happiness, also play a role.

Link to complete article: What Causes Misogyny?

[mystery]

I have communicated with many men that are in different intensity of Misogyny or hate. It is a sliding scale similar to how autism is, all the way from love and respect to hate. Usually, hate requires that a positive emotion was first, for example, love or infatuation. The broken love will result in stronger hate than infatuation does. The cause is always a broken heart but I did/do give way that other causes are possible. For sure some men are silly in how fragile they are. Some men fall in love with women, at the same time that women don't even know they exist. Very silly, and not the fault of the woman. The hate goes all the way to suicide in some cases. This is a real issue for both men and women.

You seem to think that the special word Misogyny that is really just another name for hate is born out of a single point of light in itself and has no cause. You seem to insist that a proposed answer is not correct, but have none to propose yourself. We call this crab mentality.

It is very hard to accept that a beautiful and pure princess could be the fault of such a thing. However, I do not suggest that at all. CAUSE and FAULT are not the same in this case.

You seem stuck on the point that the woman has nothing to do with it. That is just silly, if the hate is toward women then women have everything to do with it. Something about women triggers hate in the man. Trigger and cause are in this context the same. If you think they are different meanings in this context pls detail.

If we get away from this basic biological action/reaction we also get away from any solutions. Is that what we really want to do so as to protect the image of women. But even that doesn't make sense as no blame is on women for this, it is a men's issue.

Your reference info does contribute as well and makes the negative reaction more likely.

[AmericanKestrel]

I have communicated with many men that are in different intensity of Misogyny or hate. It is a sliding scale similar to how autism is, all the way from love and respect to hate. Usually, hate requires that a positive emotion was first, for example, love or infatuation. The broken love will result in stronger hate than infatuation does. The cause is always a broken heart but I did/do give way that other causes are possible. For sure some men are silly in how fragile they are. Some men fall in love with women, at the same time that women don't even know they exist. Very silly, and not the fault of the woman. The hate goes all the way to suicide in some cases. This is a real issue for both men and women.

You seem to think that the special word Misogyny that is really just another name for hate is born out of a single point of light in itself and has no cause. You seem to insist that a proposed answer is not correct, but have none to propose yourself. We call this crab mentality.

It is very hard to accept that a beautiful and pure princess could be the fault of such a thing. However, I do not suggest that at all. CAUSE and FAULT are not the same in this case.

You seem stuck on the point that the woman has nothing to do with it. That is just silly, if the hate is toward women then women have everything to do with it. Something about women triggers hate in the man. Trigger and cause are in this context the same. If you think they are different meanings in this context pls detail.

If we get away from this basic biological action/reaction we also get away from any solutions. Is that what we really want to do so as to protect the image of women. But even that doesn't make sense as no blame is on women for this, it is a men's issue.

Your reference info does contribute as well and makes the negative reaction more likely.

What do you suggest women do to satisfy men who want them to have sex with them, that will protect them from violence that results if they refuse?
What is your advice when they are told to cover up head to toe so men are not tempted to have sex with them because they can rape them if they dont comply?
That it is best they dont go out and work where there are men whose lust may turn to violence any moment if they dont have sex with them?
Does this look like a sane world to you? It does not for women either.
Misogyny is not just another word for hate. It is hate specifically directed at women. Even if they are lovers, wives, daughters. The cause for this hate is fear and anxiety that women cause in them. So if they can just control them completely this will make them feel safer. Thus the violence, which is what rape is. It is not about sex and never about love.

[mystery]

I have communicated with many men that are in different intensity of Misogyny or hate. It is a sliding scale similar to how autism is, all the way from love and respect to hate. Usually, hate requires that a positive emotion was first, for example, love or infatuation. The broken love will result in stronger hate than infatuation does. The cause is always a broken heart but I did/do give way that other causes are possible. For sure some men are silly in how fragile they are. Some men fall in love with women, at the same time that women don't even know they exist. Very silly, and not the fault of the woman. The hate goes all the way to suicide in some cases. This is a real issue for both men and women.

You seem to think that the special word Misogyny that is really just another name for hate is born out of a single point of light in itself and has no cause. You seem to insist that a proposed answer is not correct, but have none to propose yourself. We call this crab mentality.

It is very hard to accept that a beautiful and pure princess could be the fault of such a thing. However, I do not suggest that at all. CAUSE and FAULT are not the same in this case.

You seem stuck on the point that the woman has nothing to do with it. That is just silly, if the hate is toward women then women have everything to do with it. Something about women triggers hate in the man. Trigger and cause are in this context the same. If you think they are different meanings in this context pls detail.

If we get away from this basic biological action/reaction we also get away from any solutions. Is that what we really want to do so as to protect the image of women. But even that doesn't make sense as no blame is on women for this, it is a men's issue.

Your reference info does contribute as well and makes the negative reaction more likely.

What do you suggest women do to satisfy men who want them to have sex with them, that will protect them from violence that results if they refuse?
What is your advice when they are told to cover up head to toe so men are not tempted to have sex with them because they can rape them if they dont comply?
That it is best they dont go out and work where there are men whose lust may turn to violence any moment if they dont have sex with them?
Does this look like a sane world to you? It does not for women either.
Misogyny is not just another word for hate. It is hate specifically directed at women. Even if they are lovers, wives, daughters. The cause for this hate is fear and anxiety that women cause in them. So if they can just control them completely this will make them feel safer. Thus the violence, which is what rape is. It is not about sex and never about love.

In the caveman days what happened is what you tell. To combat this the lady would find a strong man, who would, in turn, protect and care for her, and she him. A team. That is the baseline of the species before we started messing with things.

As a man, I can assure you that the lust can be a very strong force. I really can not think of a stronger force that a man deals with.

What the men shall do is learn how these things work instead of to just figure it out for themself. Usually and often these topics are taboo in families and households and no one teaches the sons or the young men. They simply are hostage to hormones. Don't go crazy on me, this is not an excuse to do what they will, only the reasons it can happen.

The men can learn how to behave in ways that women LIKE and how to control his emotions. A well kept secret is that men have emotions, very strong ones different but the same as women. Ever know a woman that once a month gets moody and irritated and expects everyone else to understand... Men have a different and permanent version of something like that that tugs them in different ways than women. He must learn to self-control. He also must understand what a lady will like in men, and that it is different things than she will admit and tell him. It is very different than what his mother will tell him. If a man can learn self-control of emotions and also learn what a lady will like, and at the same time find another focus and purpose in his life all will be well and he will not fall to the dark side, the hate. He also will not be rejected very often. These are things a man can learn and boys should be taught, but alas they are not and only men can teach it. A boy without a father has not much chance to learn, just as bad is a father that also does not know.

I get that you are female, this issue is completely in the men's arena to deal with. Fathers should teach sons and if not the community leaders should do it. But first, they must understand the issue correctly.

The result is strong men that will be happy and women that will be happy; usually. As with many things all those bad results can be avoided with leadership, training, and wisdom.

I have never met a masculine man that was full of hate for women. All of the ones full of hate are always weak in spirit.

How a weak man thinks is; she rejected me. I lost out on what I want, I am angry.

How a masculine man thinks is; she rejected me. HaHa, she missed out on getting me, next.

[Pattern-chaser]

You seem to think that the special word Misogyny that is really just another name for hate is born out of a single point of light in itself and has no cause. You seem to insist that a proposed answer is not correct, but have none to propose yourself. We call this crab mentality.

Firstly, your headline/slogan/mantra is that "rejection is the cause of misogyny". You have asserted this many times, without any evidence or justification. The logical implications and consequences of your slogan are clear and obvious. Misogyny is caused by the actions of the woman. Therefore, the woman bears the blame and responsibility for misogyny. It's obvious: her actions are the cause, so she should act otherwise, and misogyny would then disappear.

You have also said, time and again, that these consequences are not your intended meaning, but how can that be? If rejection causes misogyny, then there is no fault in the man, only in the woman who rejects him.

I do not think, and have not said, that misogyny has no cause. I have said clearly that I don't know the cause of misogyny, just as you don't, but I have admitted it, and you have not. You just continue to assert your unjustified position. Yes, I have proposed that you are looking in the wrong place for a cause of misogyny. You look at the victim, and when I propose that maybe looking at the perpetrator instead, you assert that I have no answer to propose. Well yes, I have no answer to propose, but I do suggest that we look in a place that seems more likely to reveal the thing we seek. I don't think this is an especially good example of "crab mentality", do you?

CAUSE and FAULT are not the same in this case.

Oddly, the two are synonymous in many cases, and quite similar in others. Your mantra asserts your alleged CAUSE, so where does the "FAULT" lie, then?

You seem stuck on the point that the woman has nothing to do with it. That is just silly, if the hate is toward women then women have everything to do with it. Something about women triggers hate in the man.

This topic seeks to discover the cause of misogyny. That being the case, it is hard to see how the victim has anything to do with it, except for their victimhood, of course. As for your last sentence, you got the right words, but seem to have put them in the wrong order: something in the man triggers hate [toward] women. Do you disagree with this?

[Pattern-chaser]

In the caveman days what happened is what you tell. To combat this the lady would find a strong man, who would, in turn, protect and care for her, and she him. A team. That is the baseline of the species before we started messing with things.

Really? From what little I know of prehistory, the man would find a woman he wanted, and take (abduct, not couple-with) her. He would keep her apart/away from other men, so that only he could rape her. He would force her to forage and cook for him, to look after his (their) children, and maybe keep his cave clean too. If that's what you call "a team", fair enough. The history you seem to refer to is one of 'might makes right', and many of us hope and pray that we have moved on from the position. But maybe that's just wishful thinking?

There is one inescapable biological fact that does apply here: testosterone makes men's muscles about 30% more efficient than a woman's muscles of the same size. Men are stronger than women. So 'might makes right' bestows absolute supremacy on men.

[mystery]

You seem to think that the special word Misogyny that is really just another name for hate is born out of a single point of light in itself and has no cause. You seem to insist that a proposed answer is not correct, but have none to propose yourself. We call this crab mentality.

Firstly, your headline/slogan/mantra is that "rejection is the cause of misogyny". You have asserted this many times, without any evidence or justification. The logical implications and consequences of your slogan are clear and obvious. Misogyny is caused by the actions of the woman. Therefore, the woman bears the blame and responsibility for misogyny. It's obvious: her actions are the cause, so she should act otherwise, and misogyny would then disappear.

You have also said, time and again, that these consequences are not your intended meaning, but how can that be? If rejection causes misogyny, then there is no fault in the man, only in the woman who rejects him.

I do not think, and have not said, that misogyny has no cause. I have said clearly that I don't know the cause of misogyny, just as you don't, but I have admitted it, and you have not. You just continue to assert your unjustified position. Yes, I have proposed that you are looking in the wrong place for a cause of misogyny. You look at the victim, and when I propose that maybe looking at the perpetrator instead, you assert that I have no answer to propose. Well yes, I have no answer to propose, but I do suggest that we look in a place that seems more likely to reveal the thing we seek. I don't think this is an especially good example of "crab mentality", do you?

CAUSE and FAULT are not the same in this case.

Oddly, the two are synonymous in many cases, and quite similar in others. Your mantra asserts your alleged CAUSE, so where does the "FAULT" lie, then?

You seem stuck on the point that the woman has nothing to do with it. That is just silly, if the hate is toward women then women have everything to do with it. Something about women triggers hate in the man.

This topic seeks to discover the cause of misogyny. That being the case, it is hard to see how the victim has anything to do with it, except for their victimhood, of course. As for your last sentence, you got the right words, but seem to have put them in the wrong order: something in the man triggers hate [toward] women. Do you disagree with this?

Ok, perhaps crab mentality was harsh as you really believe your position and are simply holding to it. This is a good debate.

For this, cause means the trigger or action that some reaction matches with. Fault means faulty, or not correct, broken, or failed.

Again the woman does as she should.

Let's delay for a moment and work to see if we can agree on fault and cause as being different. If we can not then I will look for other words to explain the same.