Thomyum2 wrote:The list contains itself.
RJG wrote:Not so. The list contains the words "this list", not the actual list itself.
Thomyum2 wrote:When you create a list, you define what is in that list. The words "this list" is not the actual list. Neither is the piece of paper that the list is written on. The list is the items you designate as being contained in it.
Agreed. The list is whatever you define it as.
Thomyum2 wrote:And if you make the list one of those items, then your list is containing itself.
Not so. Thom, this is not logically possible. The list (whatever it is) can only contain a 'reference' to itself, and never itself because X<X is logically impossible. (X cannot be outside/inside itself, or before/after itself, or above/below itself, or less than/greater than itself, etc etc).
- A box cannot logically contain itself. But if this box contains a photograph called (labeled) "this box" then this box contains a
reference-of-itself; ...it does not contain itself.
- And likewise, a list cannot logically contain itself. But if this list contains the words "this list", then this list contains a
reference-of-itself, ...it does not contain itself.
It doesn't matter if X is a "box" or a "list" or something imaginary. X<X is still logically impossible.