Was Judas the first Liberal?

[Pattern-chaser]

Discussing philosophy as a lover of wisdom begins with the "human condition" Who understands its cause or what is required to be less a victim.

Surely "what is required to be less a victim" is putting a stop to those who attack these 'victims'? Victim-blaming is a cowardly 'justification' for 'might makes right', isn't it?

We must kill those who cause trouble and deserve killing. They interfere with world peace. In the past those who deserve killing have included Jews, Armenians, and fetuses. Why should the peace loving educated have to endure these influences? The good people need a committee of political experts to study the problem.

I assume you write tongue-in-cheek, yes?

[Steve3007]

The railing against people who are perceived to be over-educated, liberal elites, woke, PC, etc that we periodically get here from mostly rural US based right wing religious types (in this case Nick_A, but there have been various others in the past) got me to thinking of the long history of that kind of thing. At the extreme end, obviously there are phenomena like the Khmer Rouge, marching "intellectuals" off to fields to show them the meaning of good honest hard work. But it's one of those veins that to some extent runs through most societies.

"Too clever by half" is a phrase that sprang to mind. I looked up its origin and apparently it was coined by the Scottish author George Whyte-Melville in 1858. In that form it's an expression of the peculiarly British tendency to put people down who we think are getting a bit above their station or we think are too confident in their own knowledge. Perhaps rooted in a desire to maintain the class system and keep people "in their place" but morphed, particularly on crossing the Atlantic, into a distrust of intellectualism with its centre of gravity, nowadays at least, firmly in the political right and religious conservatives.

[Nick_A]

Jesus, if he existed, was an early liberal, and certainly not the first.

After millennia of brutality in the Middle East, JC suggested that people treat other with kindness and understanding. In no way does that equate to conservatism. Quite the contrary.

Man made Christianity or what Kierkegaard called Christendom is concerned with what people DO. Christianity or what Jesus taught is concerned with what we ARE. What we do vs what we are. Is there even one person on this site who has pondered the implications of this basic philosophical question?

[mystery]

Jesus, if he existed, was an early liberal, and certainly not the first.

After millennia of brutality in the Middle East, JC suggested that people treat other with kindness and understanding. In no way does that equate to conservatism. Quite the contrary.

Man made Christianity or what Kierkegaard called Christendom is concerned with what people DO. Christianity or what Jesus taught is concerned with what we ARE. What we do vs what we are. Is there even one person on this site who has pondered the implications of this basic philosophical question?

One question to help with that, do Christians follow the religion of Jesus or the religion about Jesus. They are different. Is that what you are thinking about?

If yes, a related issue is, do ppl like us for who we are or what we are and can do. Many find deep confusion in this realm.

[Nick_A]

Discussing philosophy as a lover of wisdom begins with the "human condition" Who understands its cause or what is required to be less a victim.

Surely "what is required to be less a victim" is putting a stop to those who attack these 'victims'? Victim-blaming is a cowardly 'justification' for 'might makes right', isn't it?

We must kill those who cause trouble and deserve killing. They interfere with world peace. In the past those who deserve killing have included Jews, Armenians, and fetuses. Why should the peace loving educated have to endure these influences? The good people need a committee of political experts to study the problem.

I assume you write tongue-in-cheek, yes?

Yes and no. The truth is killings are justified by convenience as with the Jewish holocaust, the Armenian genocide, and abortions of convenience. Recently riots in America by BLM and Antifa have led to killings and destruction of property people have spent their lives creating. It is said to be justified by the convenience offered by the word justice defined by the good people. Why would you disagree?

[AmericanKestrel]

Surely "what is required to be less a victim" is putting a stop to those who attack these 'victims'? Victim-blaming is a cowardly 'justification' for 'might makes right', isn't it?

We must kill those who cause trouble and deserve killing. They interfere with world peace. In the past those who deserve killing have included Jews, Armenians, and fetuses. Why should the peace loving educated have to endure these influences? The good people need a committee of political experts to study the problem.

This is Politics. So many things wrong with your post.
I assume you write tongue-in-cheek, yes?

Yes and no. The truth is killings are justified by convenience as with the Jewish holocaust, the Armenian genocide, and abortions of convenience. Recently riots in America by BLM and Antifa have led to killings and destruction of property people have spent their lives creating. It is said to be justified by the convenience offered by the word justice defined by the good people. Why would you disagree?

[Nick_A]

The railing against people who are perceived to be over-educated, liberal elites, woke, PC, etc that we periodically get here from mostly rural US based right wing religious types (in this case Nick_A, but there have been various others in the past) got me to thinking of the long history of that kind of thing. At the extreme end, obviously there are phenomena like the Khmer Rouge, marching "intellectuals" off to fields to show them the meaning of good honest hard work. But it's one of those veins that to some extent runs through most societies.

"Too clever by half" is a phrase that sprang to mind. I looked up its origin and apparently it was coined by the Scottish author George Whyte-Melville in 1858. In that form it's an expression of the peculiarly British tendency to put people down who we think are getting a bit above their station or we think are too confident in their own knowledge. Perhaps rooted in a desire to maintain the class system and keep people "in their place" but morphed, particularly on crossing the Atlantic, into a distrust of intellectualism with its centre of gravity, nowadays at least, firmly in the political right and religious conservatives.

It all sounds very good and "educated" but can you tell me how you define an educated person? Who are these people and how can I find an educated person?

[Steve3007]

It all sounds very good and "educated" but can you tell me how you define an educated person? Who are these people and how can I find an educated person?

You tell me. You're the one who rails against them. A quick search shows that you've used the word "educated" 97 times. In all cases that I can see at a quick glance, it's used in a pejorative or ironic sense. So you've presumably got a good idea what you mean by it. What is is?

[Nick_A]

Jesus, if he existed, was an early liberal, and certainly not the first.

After millennia of brutality in the Middle East, JC suggested that people treat other with kindness and understanding. In no way does that equate to conservatism. Quite the contrary.

Man made Christianity or what Kierkegaard called Christendom is concerned with what people DO. Christianity or what Jesus taught is concerned with what we ARE. What we do vs what we are. Is there even one person on this site who has pondered the implications of this basic philosophical question?

One question to help with that, do Christians follow the religion of Jesus or the religion about Jesus. They are different. Is that what you are thinking about?

If yes, a related issue is, do ppl like us for who we are or what we are and can do. Many find deep confusion in this realm.

Yes, man made Christianity is idolatry. I thought it may be useless to begin a thread on what Plato called the harmony of the soul if it will help clarify at least theoretically why we live in darkness regardless of how it is denied, why not do it? You get it, why can't others even on secular sites?

[Nick_A]

It all sounds very good and "educated" but can you tell me how you define an educated person? Who are these people and how can I find an educated person?

You tell me. You're the one who rails against them. A quick search shows that you've used the word "educated" 97 times. In all cases that I can see at a quick glance, it's used in a pejorative or ironic sense. So you've presumably got a good idea what you mean by it. What is is?

I have great admiration for an educated person. You like to praise a concept without knowing what it is. The word sounds good so you are all for it. The secret of the good salesperson.

[Steve3007]

I have great admiration for an educated person.

OK, but just not the ones you've referred to in your posts on this site, I guess. So you're not going to tell me what you mean by it in those posts? They're all quite consistently pejorative and/or sarcastic so I suspect you probably have quite a clear idea what you mean.

You like to praise a concept without knowing what it is. The word sounds good so you are all for it.

Do I? OK. Any particular concept you've noticed me praising? Or just concepts in general? Is it people who "like to praise a concept without knowing what it is" that you're ironically referring to in those posts?

[Nick_A]

I have great admiration for an educated person.

OK, but just not the ones you've referred to in your posts on this site, I guess. So you're not going to tell me what you mean by it in those posts? They're all quite consistently pejorative and/or sarcastic so I suspect you probably have quite a clear idea what you mean.

You like to praise a concept without knowing what it is. The word sounds good so you are all for it.

Do I? OK. Any particular concept you've noticed me praising? Or just concepts in general? Is it people who "like to praise a concept without knowing what it is" that you're ironically referring to in those posts?

So the smoke clears and you are still defending educated people without defining it yet criticize me for questioning what an educated person is. I know this is the modern way but does it make any sense?

[Ecurb]

Yes, man made Christianity is idolatry. I thought it may be useless to begin a thread on what Plato called the harmony of the soul if it will help clarify at least theoretically why we live in darkness regardless of how it is denied, why not do it? You get it, why can't others even on secular sites?

All Christianity is "man made". Jesus was a man. It was He who created the "New Covenant" (acc. the Bible). (Perhaps, as he suggests here, Nick thinks all Christianity is "idolatry".)

[Nick_A]

I have great admiration for an educated person.

OK, but just not the ones you've referred to in your posts on this site, I guess. So you're not going to tell me what you mean by it in those posts? They're all quite consistently pejorative and/or sarcastic so I suspect you probably have quite a clear idea what you mean.

You like to praise a concept without knowing what it is. The word sounds good so you are all for it.

Do I? OK. Any particular concept you've noticed me praising? Or just concepts in general? Is it people who "like to praise a concept without knowing what it is" that you're ironically referring to in those posts?

Steve

Steve3007 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 9:11 am
The railing against people who are perceived to be over-educated, liberal elites, woke, PC, etc that we periodically get here from mostly rural US based right wing religious types

You throw these terms around such as over educated without defining an educated person. If you cannot do it, doesn't that explain the source of the ignorance of the human condition or that we live in Plato's cave?

[Nick_A]

Yes, man made Christianity is idolatry. I thought it may be useless to begin a thread on what Plato called the harmony of the soul if it will help clarify at least theoretically why we live in darkness regardless of how it is denied, why not do it? You get it, why can't others even on secular sites?

All Christianity is "man made". Jesus was a man. It was He who created the "New Covenant" (acc. the Bible). (Perhaps, as he suggests here, Nick thinks all Christianity is "idolatry".)

All this means is that you don't know the ancient source of Jesus' efforts which became Christianity and later devolved into Christendom. Somehow this gets past the educated.

The very thing which is now called the Christian religion existed among the ancients also, nor was it wanting]rom the inception if the human race until the coming if Christ in the flesh, at which point the true religion which was already in existence began to be called Christian. -ST. AUGUSTINE, Retractiones