The Harmony of the Soul

[Nick_A]

As Mystery suggests, this is dangerous topic. In the past some have been killed over it since it suggests that Man is asleep in Plato's cave attached to the shadows on the wall or in the spiritual darkness of the World. The premise of this thread as a whole is that Man is psychologically asleep and what can those who begin to sense the problem of what has been called the Human Condition can do to awaken. Experience has proven that our species as a whole does not seek freedom from the cave and rather attacks and even kills those like Socrates who suggest awakening

Normally when we use the term "I" it assumes unity. When we say "this is what I do" it assumes the whole of oneself. Plato reminds us that in reality we are a tripartite essence (three in one) So in reality Man is not one; Man is many, one part of our collective essence is active at a time. The three main parts and the many parts of each side of the collective psych are:

The appetites, which includes all our myriad desires for various pleasures, comforts, physical satisfactions, and bodily ease. There are so many of these appetites that Plato does not bother to enumerate them, but he does note that they can often be in conflict even with each other. This element of the soul is represented by the ugly black horse on the left in the Chariot analogy.

The spirited, or hot-blooded, part, i.e., the part that gets angry when it perceives (for example) an injustice being done. This is the part of us that loves to face and overcome great challenges, the part that can steel itself to adversity, and that loves victory, winning, challenge, and honor. (Note that Plato's use of the term "spirited" here is not the same as "spiritual." He means "spirited" in the same sense that we speak of a high-spirited horse, for example, one with lots of energy and power.) This element of the soul is represented by the noble white horse on the right.

The mind (nous), our conscious awareness, is represented by the charioteer who is guiding (or who at least should be guiding) the horses and chariot. This is the part of us that thinks, analyzes, looks ahead, rationally weighs options, and tries to gauge what is best and truest overall.

The human condition suggests the collective essence is out of balance. The majority are led by appetites. Less are led by emotions, and even less are capable of the rational dialectic. They cannot understand each other but rather talk at each other. Those ruled by the mind thinks the artist waste its time feeling while the artist thinks those ruled by the mind think too much. The person ruled by appetites is only concerned with doing what they have been taught to do.

There is no inner cooperation between the three parts of our psych but Man's evolution requires freedom from the cave so they become one unified whole rather than a myriad of conflicting parts.

“[Education] isn’t the craft of putting sight into the soul. Education takes for granted that sight is there but that it isn’t turned the right way or looking where it ought to look, and it tries to redirect it appropriately.”
- The Republic, Book VII

The whole person or the inwardly balanced person becomes aware that they experience their daily lives out of balance through the senses as devolved fragments of their reality as forms. Where we experience the visual through the senses we can experience their essence as forms through the intelligible. For example we have many concepts of justice yet the reality of justice exists as a form.

Education ought to strengthen and refine humans’ ability to see beyond the “visible” and into the “intelligible,” to grasp these more eternal concepts — ultimately, that unifying, singular notion of “the good” itself.

According to Plato, all universal existence is divided into two realms: the “visible” and the “intelligible.”

The former contains all tangible, material objects, what is immediately accessible to us on a day-to-day basis, but all of these are only imperfect copies of the perfect, ideal forms of the latter realm of the “intelligible.”

That is, there is a perfect “being” or essence of concepts and ideas, and the physical objects we encounter are only flawed manifestations of these ideals.

The purpose of education is first to balance the tripartite soul or essence so it functions as a conscious whole rather than as conflicting parts. Next it must be allowed to inwardly turn towards the light and away from the shadows on the wall to experience the source of forms. A person who has achieved inner balance of the tripartite soul and experienced the attraction to the brightest light is called an educated person. That is why there are so few educated people and so many content to argue opinions and partial truths.

[Pattern-chaser]

The premise of this thread as a whole is that Man is psychologically asleep and what can those who begin to sense the problem of what has been called the Human Condition can do to awaken. Experience has proven that our species as a whole does not seek freedom from the cave and rather attacks and even kills those like Socrates who suggest awakening

...

The majority are led by appetites. Less are led by emotions, and even less are capable of the rational dialectic. They cannot understand each other but rather talk at each other. [...] The person ruled by appetites is only concerned with doing what they have been taught to do.

So this topic is a complaint about the less intellectually gifted? What is the purpose and benefit you intend this topic to offer?

[Nick_A]

The premise of this thread as a whole is that Man is psychologically asleep and what can those who begin to sense the problem of what has been called the Human Condition can do to awaken. Experience has proven that our species as a whole does not seek freedom from the cave and rather attacks and even kills those like Socrates who suggest awakening

...

The majority are led by appetites. Less are led by emotions, and even less are capable of the rational dialectic. They cannot understand each other but rather talk at each other. [...] The person ruled by appetites is only concerned with doing what they have been taught to do.

So this topic is a complaint about the less intellectually gifted? What is the purpose and benefit you intend this topic to offer?

Why are you so caught up in complaints. This thread is for those who have become aware of the human condition as it exist within humanity and what can be done about it. Why complain? What good does that do? Why not verify?

[Skyblack]

This thread is for those who have become aware of the human condition as it exist within humanity and what can be done about it

What are you proposing?

[Pattern-chaser]

The premise of this thread as a whole is that Man is psychologically asleep and what can those who begin to sense the problem of what has been called the Human Condition can do to awaken. Experience has proven that our species as a whole does not seek freedom from the cave and rather attacks and even kills those like Socrates who suggest awakening

...

The majority are led by appetites. Less are led by emotions, and even less are capable of the rational dialectic. They cannot understand each other but rather talk at each other. [...] The person ruled by appetites is only concerned with doing what they have been taught to do.

So this topic is a complaint about the less intellectually gifted? What is the purpose and benefit you intend this topic to offer?

Why are you so caught up in complaints. This thread is for those who have become aware of the human condition as it exist within humanity and what can be done about it. Why complain? What good does that do? Why not verify?

I'm not complaining, just asking what this topic is really about, and the benefit it offers, if any. It doesn't seem to be concerned with the "Harmony of the Soul", as far as I can see...

[Nick_A]

The premise of this thread as a whole is that Man is psychologically asleep and what can those who begin to sense the problem of what has been called the Human Condition can do to awaken. Experience has proven that our species as a whole does not seek freedom from the cave and rather attacks and even kills those like Socrates who suggest awakening

...

The majority are led by appetites. Less are led by emotions, and even less are capable of the rational dialectic. They cannot understand each other but rather talk at each other. [...] The person ruled by appetites is only concerned with doing what they have been taught to do.

So this topic is a complaint about the less intellectually gifted? What is the purpose and benefit you intend this topic to offer?

Why are you so caught up in complaints. This thread is for those who have become aware of the human condition as it exist within humanity and what can be done about it. Why complain? What good does that do? Why not verify?

I'm not complaining, just asking what this topic is really about, and the benefit it offers, if any. It doesn't seem to be concerned with the "Harmony of the Soul", as far as I can see...

The thread invites a discussion about why humanity including us as individuals live in Plato's cave, the causes, and possible means of escape so a person can evolve as as a human being as opposed to remaining a creature of reaction out of balance living in the darkness of Plato's cave. If Plato is not modern enough and the world seems normal for you, then the thread is not for you. It is only beneficial for those who like Socrates have verified that "I know nothing" and why it is so.

[Nick_A]

The soul or our essence is considered harmonious when reason, feeling, and sensing work together as one. For example we say I feel cold" when we really mean "I sense cold." But how many are aware of the difference? A person can sense cold as pleasant but feel it differently because of past experiences. A person can only simultaneously think, feel, and sense the same phenomenon consciously. The human condition has replaced consciousness with imagination to make our hypocrisy tolerable and keep us attached to the shadows on the wall.

[mystery]

One of the things to look at is what are the true goals of any one person. Some truths will appear when doing that, but many will look for alternatives because the true ones are not accepted. This leads us to dual life, like Facebook. What we show and then the truth, with lots of permissions about how much truth any can get. but why.... why why why...

Why are ppl as we are, and not how we wish to be, and "why do we not wish to be how we wish to be". that was not a typo, it is the question.

I learned something on this forum the other day from a poster that is telling about how all choices are really a reaction or already chosen before our mind gets to it. How the body already makes a choice before the mind gets to it. That topic is really useful within this one, It is some good stuff.

Accepting the truth, and working with/from it is the key.

The human condition, so simple and so complicated.

Simple truths such as men and women are different. How can we have harmony when we try to rewrite biology in a Facebook paradigm.

OP the blue pill is strong. Suggest in this topic give a very simple example that children can know. Not to be condescending, but for clarity.

We are our emotions, the things that affect those can be adjusted. It is done differently between men and women.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inside_Out_(2015_film). This movie although silly, has some good ideas about this topic.


We are so busy worry about yesterday, and also waiting for tomorrow that we simply forget about now. By focus on now, we can synchronize ourselves.

Great topic, I look forward to all the ideas ppl have about it.

[Pattern-chaser]

The human condition has replaced consciousness with imagination to make our hypocrisy tolerable and keep us attached to the shadows on the wall.

OK. How so?

[Nick_A]

Mystery

I learned something on this forum the other day from a poster that is telling about how all choices are really a reaction or already chosen before our mind gets to it. How the body already makes a choice before the mind gets to it. That topic is really useful within this one, It is some good stuff.

Accepting the truth, and working with/from it is the key.

The human condition, so simple and so complicated.

We agree that unawakened Man on earth is really a creature of REACTION incapable of conscious ACTION. This is why what happens on our planet including wars appears to be an obvious absurdity created by hypocrisy. Philosophy defined as the love of wisdom strives to understand why this is so.

Plato defines Man as a tripartite soul or three in one. Man is not a unified whole but exists and functions as three parts. Man is a "mixture" with the potential to become unified whole or "solution" in chemistry. The harmony of the soul only makes sense to the three parts which can be harmonized listed above. How can reason, feelings, and appetites cooperate, become harmonized, as opposed to living in opposition as has become the norm for Man as a creature of REACTION?

Can you accept Man as a tripartite soul as the foundation for contemplating the human condition?

Gene Roddenberry was a man ahead of his time. He created Star Trek fully aware of the tripartite soul. He hid esoteric ideas into the series one of which is the tripartite soul.

Kirk represents the Man governed primarily by appetites. He is the man of action. McCoy, the doctor represents the emotional man, the man governed by feelings. Spock represents the rational man. The man seeking wisdom. The series is about how they cooperate and differ as three in one. We can see ourselves in these three and the ways our three sides cooperate and differ. But discussion requires a foundation to build on. Are you willing to accept Man on earth not as inner unity but rather as a mixture of three parts all asserting themselves through acquired roles at different times as our organism REACTS to worldly and cosmic conditions?

[Pattern-chaser]

Gene Roddenberry was a man ahead of his time. He created Star Trek fully aware of the tripartite soul. He hid esoteric ideas into the series one of which is the tripartite soul.

Didn't L. Ron Hubbard have a similar idea?

[mystery]

Mystery

I learned something on this forum the other day from a poster that is telling about how all choices are really a reaction or already chosen before our mind gets to it. How the body already makes a choice before the mind gets to it. That topic is really useful within this one, It is some good stuff.

Accepting the truth, and working with/from it is the key.

The human condition, so simple and so complicated.

We agree that unawakened Man on earth is really a creature of REACTION incapable of conscious ACTION. This is why what happens on our planet including wars appears to be an obvious absurdity created by hypocrisy. Philosophy defined as the love of wisdom strives to understand why this is so.

Plato defines Man as a tripartite soul or three in one. Man is not a unified whole but exists and functions as three parts. Man is a "mixture" with the potential to become unified whole or "solution" in chemistry. The harmony of the soul only makes sense to the three parts which can be harmonized listed above. How can reason, feelings, and appetites cooperate, become harmonized, as opposed to living in opposition as has become the norm for Man as a creature of REACTION?

Can you accept Man as a tripartite soul as the foundation for contemplating the human condition?

Gene Roddenberry was a man ahead of his time. He created Star Trek fully aware of the tripartite soul. He hid esoteric ideas into the series one of which is the tripartite soul.

Kirk represents the Man governed primarily by appetites. He is the man of action. McCoy, the doctor represents the emotional man, the man governed by feelings. Spock represents the rational man. The man seeking wisdom. The series is about how they cooperate and differ as three in one. We can see ourselves in these three and the ways our three sides cooperate and differ. But discussion requires a foundation to build on. Are you willing to accept Man on earth not as inner unity but rather as a mixture of three parts all asserting themselves through acquired roles at different times as our organism REACTS to worldly and cosmic conditions?

Yes I can use that as a basis for this topic, feel free to reassert that as often as needed to make any point.

I suspect this is partially why we have four gospel versions in Christianity, the designers understood this point, Spock with hmmm Luke, John with McCoy.

In Large Business we run personality testing on members, to discover the mix of these traits. It is useful for making teams and assignments. The formula in Star Trek can be replicated and it works.

Getting to inner peace is understanding this as an observer, observe ourselves, laugh, and then adjust. Many Spocks have the need to bring Kirk into the mix, but instead, we are told over and over to feed McCoy. As we feminize men, we break everything.

Reading the Gospel of John, with an open and blank mind can result in an overwhelming "feeling" of bliss as it flows strong with emotion.


Ready for the next chapter/point.

[Nick_A]

Hi Mystery. No this isn't like a college course. It does seem like our species has been struggling with the same questions. Why do we remain trapped in Plato's cave and governed by imagination. Maybe Plato understood why it is so.

To make it easier I'd like to use this site called "The Art of Manliness" to describe Plato's Chariot analogy which describes the tripartite soul. In previous times pondering the great ideas was considered manly. Is manliness still admired or has it devolved into imagination and arguments over details and political agendas?

https://www.artofmanliness.com/articles ... e-chariot/

What is the best way to live and how do I attain excellence? What should I aim for, and what training and practices must I do to achieve those aims?

Such questions have been asked for thousands of years. Few men have grappled with them more, and provided keener insight to the answers, than the philosophers of ancient Greece. In particular, Plato’s vision of the tripartite nature of the soul, or psyche, as explained though the allegory of the chariot, is something I have returned to throughout my life. It furnishes an unmatched symbol of what a man is, can be, and what he must do to bridge those two points and attain andreia (manliness), arête (excellence), and finally eudaimonia (full human flourishing).

In the Phaedrus, Plato (through his mouthpiece, Socrates) shares the allegory of the chariot to explain the tripartite nature of the human soul or psyche.

The chariot is pulled by two winged horses, one mortal and the other immortal.

The mortal horse is deformed and obstinate. Plato describes the horse as a “crooked lumbering animal, put together anyhow…of a dark color, with grey eyes and blood-red complexion; the mate of insolence and pride, shag-eared and deaf, hardly yielding to whip and spur.”

The immortal horse, on the other hand, is noble and game, “upright and cleanly made…his color is white, and his eyes dark; he is a lover of honor and modesty and temperance, and the follower of true glory; he needs no touch of the whip, but is guided by word and admonition only.”

In the driver’s seat is the charioteer, tasked with reining in these disparate steeds, guiding and harnessing them to propel the vehicle with strength and efficiency. The charioteer’s destination? The ridge of heaven, beyond which he may behold the Forms: essences of things like Beauty, Wisdom, Courage, Justice, Goodness — everlasting Truth and absolute Knowledge. These essences nourish the horses’ wings, keeping the chariot in flight.

The charioteer joins a procession of gods, led by Zeus, on this trip into the heavens. Unlike human souls, the gods have two immortal horses to pull their chariots and are able to easily soar above. Mortals, on the other hand, have a much more turbulent ride. The white horse wishes to rise, but the dark horse attempts to pull the chariot back towards the earth. As the horses pull in opposing directions, and the charioteer attempts to get them into sync, his chariot bobs above the ridge of heaven then down again, and he catches glimpses of the great beyond before sinking once more.

If the charioteer is able to behold the Forms, he gets to go on another revolution around the heavens. But if he cannot successfully pilot the chariot, the horses’ wings wither from lack of nourishment, or break off when the horses collide and attack each other, or crash into the chariots of others. The chariot then plummets to earth, the horses lose their wings, and the soul becomes embodied in human flesh. The degree to which the soul falls, and the “rank” of the mortal being it must then be embodied in is based on the amount of Truth it beheld while in the heavens. Rather like the idea of reincarnation. The degree of the fall also determines how long it takes for the horses to regrow their wings and once again take flight. Basically, the more Truth the charioteer beheld on his journey, the shallower his fall, and the easier it is for him to get up and get going again. The regrowth of the wings is hastened by the mortal soul encountering people and experiences that contain touches of divinity, and recall to his memory the Truth he beheld in his preexistence. Plato describes such moments as looking “through the glass dimly” and they hasten the soul’s return to the heavens.

The white horse on the right (our higher parts) is attracted to higher consciousness (the land of the gods) The dark horse on the left representing our lower parts, Plato describes as “crooked lumbering animal, put together anyhow…of a dark color, with grey eyes and blood-red complexion; the mate of insolence and pride, shag-eared and deaf, hardly yielding to whip and spur.” Having become deformed it pulls the white horse and the charioteer down to its level of the earth. If the charioteer can remember the forms that comprise the form of the good, then it can begin to rise again and Man can become conscious.

For those who appreciate the Chariot analogy as describing the human condition, our problem becomes how to heal our sick dark horse so the driver can perform its rightful harmonious function allowing reason to balance spiritedness and appetites into a conscious harmonious whole with knowledge of and able to live by universal laws or the forms rather than arguing over fragments and partial truths as has become the norm. How do we begin?

[Papus79]

Experience has proven that our species as a whole does not seek freedom from the cave and rather attacks and even kills those like Socrates who suggest awakening

They also might ignore you right off the surface of the earth if they can't find an angle to remove you and then under those conditions one has to 'find the others', ie. other of what Samo Burja calls 'live players' and what I've often heard referred to as 'the others'. Otherwise your inner life feels like its getting eaten by loneliness and the rules of broken machinery.

[Papus79]

There's a whole other thing that Andres Gomez Emilsson brought up in a video several months back - the schematic core showdown between consciousness and what might call 'pure replicators'. It seems like those who find themselves deeply lonely in the intellectual, spiritual, or just 'brightness of the lightbulb' sense are faded more to the conscious end while others who actively seem to rebel against consciousness in favor of algorithm would be living closer to the optimal self-replicator scenario.