Deterioration of the human mind

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Skyblack
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Re: Deterioration of the human mind

Post by Skyblack »

That's what happens when opinion tries to pass itself off as data.
No, that's what happens when a conditioned mind is filtering data from biased opinions.
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Papus79
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Re: Deterioration of the human mind

Post by Papus79 »

Skyblack wrote: June 18th, 2021, 7:05 pm If you wish you can reconsider what's being said in the OP. Which may lead to be clear on the implications of the defects being looked at. Then you can if you wish stack those insights with what you have said so far, which may help in highlighting the contradictions or perhaps a slightly superficial take of OP.
In other words we're playing a game and you're here to test your pontification skills against all comers.

Thank you for being that transparently dishonest. I'm out.
Humbly watching Youtube in Universe 25. - Me
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LuckyR
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Re: Deterioration of the human mind

Post by LuckyR »

Skyblack wrote: June 18th, 2021, 7:06 pm
That's what happens when opinion tries to pass itself off as data.
No, that's what happens when a conditioned mind is filtering data from biased opinions.
Let put it more simply: how much of the observations you documented in the OP do you personally suffer from?
"As usual... it depends."
Skyblack
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Re: Deterioration of the human mind

Post by Skyblack »

In other words we're playing a game and you're here to test your pontification skills against all comers.

Thank you for being that transparently dishonest. I'm out.
No. In other words what OP was trying to do is to ensure that equal participation of energy and effort comes from all parties involved, as it should in a dialogue. And also ensuring the honesty that is required to enrage in a sincere dialogue which entail putting aside dishonestt things like using dialogues for entertainment purposes, or whiling away of time because one has enough of free time, or use it to sharpen battle skills etc.

Thank you for giving me that chance to expose that dishonesty behind the comers. And also, let this discussion be an example for any future comers that OP is sincere and serious on the subject. Most importantly OP isn't seeking any comers as the validation or the lack thereof from reactiuonary minds means nothing to him.
Skyblack
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Re: Deterioration of the human mind

Post by Skyblack »

Let put it more simply: how much of the observations you documented in the OP do you personally suffer from?
Let me put it very simply, i do not find you sincere or serious in your questions. That, linked with the defects you have already demonstrated, does not inspire me to continue with you.
Skyblack
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Re: Deterioration of the human mind

Post by Skyblack »

To any readers please excuse the typos here:
Most importantly OP isn't seeking any comers as the validation or the lack thereof from reactiuonary minds means nothing to him.
Please read it as, " Most importantly OP isn't seeking any comers as a source of validation or the lack thereof, as, they mean nothing to him".
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LuckyR
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Re: Deterioration of the human mind

Post by LuckyR »

Skyblack wrote: June 18th, 2021, 7:36 pm
Let put it more simply: how much of the observations you documented in the OP do you personally suffer from?
Let me put it very simply, i do not find you sincere or serious in your questions. That, linked with the defects you have already demonstrated, does not inspire me to continue with you.
I'll keep my thoughts to myself.
"As usual... it depends."
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mystery
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Re: Deterioration of the human mind

Post by mystery »

Gee wrote: June 18th, 2021, 1:51 pm
Skyblack wrote: June 18th, 2021, 11:53 am
In this case, you see the glass as half empty.
A clear mind will perceive facts as they are. Accurately and without bias. And will communicate the same in a similar manner.

It's/facts are not a matter of "perspectives" or "views" like half or full glasses.
This is absolute nonsense. Most, if not all, facts actually require interpretation -- without that interpretation nothing makes any sense.

The glass is half full -- fact. The glass is half empty -- fact.

If you think that I am wrong, then explain about facts that do not require interpretation.

Gee
the glass is the wrong size.
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mystery
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Re: Deterioration of the human mind

Post by mystery »

Skyblack wrote: June 17th, 2021, 3:48 pm When one looks at the human condition one finds the human surrounded by problems. In order to cope with these problems the human looks at various solutions promised by ideologies, religions, politics, economics, science, and so forth. While few of man’s problems are practical but most of them are psychological. An example to better understand the distinction: If one does not have the basic needs of food, shelter, and clothes, this a practical problem. However, If one is psychologically insecure because they aren’t “comparable” or “better” than the Jones, then this a psychological problem.

In his constant effort to fix his problems by looking into the solutions proposed by the various brokers (Secular or Religious), it is clear the human has descended into a pattern of conformity, thus making the mind and the heart dull, insensitive, sluggish, blind, unresponsive, almost lifeless. A second hand machine at best, that constantly breaks down.

It seems the human is not capable of looking at anything with fresh eyes or to adequately respond to the challenges life throws at him/her. Every new moment is met with the weight of the past and through the acquired filters. Thus all responses are partial and fragmentary.

How can such a burdened human ever be free to meet a new unknown moment. How will such a weighed consciousness penetrate the tenuous workings of their own mind, and that of the universe.
It is useful to take both a macro and micro view on this.

Macro, review the work:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strauss%E ... nal_theory

MIcro, review the work:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Power_of_Now

Apply these two works within your ideas and some change in the ideas might occur. Would be interested in how you perceive those authors' ideas vs the issue and context of the issue.
Gee
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Re: Deterioration of the human mind

Post by Gee »

mystery wrote: June 18th, 2021, 9:23 pm
Gee wrote: June 18th, 2021, 1:51 pm
Skyblack wrote: June 18th, 2021, 11:53 am
In this case, you see the glass as half empty.
A clear mind will perceive facts as they are. Accurately and without bias. And will communicate the same in a similar manner.

It's/facts are not a matter of "perspectives" or "views" like half or full glasses.
This is absolute nonsense. Most, if not all, facts actually require interpretation -- without that interpretation nothing makes any sense.

The glass is half full -- fact. The glass is half empty -- fact.

If you think that I am wrong, then explain about facts that do not require interpretation.

Gee
the glass is the wrong size.
This could very well be a fact, but note that in order to be true, (a fact) it requires a correct size to be known. So opinion, judgment, and bias would be included in the interpretation, which Skyblack does not approve of.

Try this: I say that ten is a fact. Do you agree or disagree?

Gee
Skyblack
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Re: Deterioration of the human mind

Post by Skyblack »

It is useful to take both a macro and micro view on this.

Macro, review the work:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strauss%E ... nal_theory

MIcro, review the work:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Power_of_Now

Apply these two works within your ideas and some change in the ideas might occur. Would be interested in how you perceive those authors' ideas vs the issue and context of the issue.
Thanks for the links. See, the OP isn't discussing "ideas" but is drawing on actual observations of how the human mind is operating. Drawing on other peoples ideas, like the ones you have recommended (or any other source), will be a continuity of the issues/defects being highlighted in OP. Doing so will only sustain the fact that one will be observing the fact, from accumulated knowledge and through the eyes of another> Which is how the mind/brain has been conditioned in the first place.
Skyblack
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Joined: June 12th, 2021, 11:56 am

Re: Deterioration of the human mind

Post by Skyblack »

Doing so will only sustain the fact that one will be observing the fact,
The fact in this case is how the human mind operates.
Skyblack
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Joined: June 12th, 2021, 11:56 am

Re: Deterioration of the human mind

Post by Skyblack »

This could very well be a fact, but note that in order to be true, (a fact) it requires a correct size to be known. So opinion, judgment, and bias would be included in the interpretation, which Skyblack does not approve of.

Try this: I say that ten is a fact. Do you agree or disagree?
Normally i do not respond to indirect comments but will make an exception. It's easy to point out the properties/facts of a material object such as glass. But when the subject matter is dealing with properties of the mind like conditioning, bias, reliance on accumulated knowledge one cannot talk about those facts like one would talk about a glass. The-ore one has to distinguish between material facts and psychological facts.
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mystery
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Re: Deterioration of the human mind

Post by mystery »

Skyblack wrote: June 18th, 2021, 9:53 pm
It is useful to take both a macro and micro view on this.

Macro, review the work:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strauss%E ... nal_theory

MIcro, review the work:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Power_of_Now

Apply these two works within your ideas and some change in the ideas might occur. Would be interested in how you perceive those authors' ideas vs the issue and context of the issue.
Thanks for the links. See, the OP isn't discussing "ideas" but is drawing on actual observations of how the human mind is operating. Drawing on other peoples ideas, like the ones you have recommended (or any other source), will be a continuity of the issues/defects being highlighted in OP. Doing so will only sustain the fact that one will be observing the fact, from accumulated knowledge and through the eyes of another> Which is how the mind/brain has been conditioned in the first place.
I'll try; you're the OP yes?

The micro thing is to address exactly what you're suggesting, maybe..??? A way to free the mind of past and future to exist now so as to increase options and focus. yes someone else has also thought of it, but that does not make it wrong.

The Macro again is already thought of by another, and again not making it wrong. It attempts to be a why it is as it is. Not a religious or other structure but to explain or think of how/why is it like this. To exclude ideas already thought of is in itself very limiting.

I will be the student in this case and you the teacher, I still might not get your point please tell it in very simple terms such as a small child can understand.

If you suggest that by using any existing knowledge we are in error, I would then be at a loss as to how to proceed as even my own thoughts work from the context of existing knowledge. For example, one can know much of another, by understanding the attributes of the first language the person knows. A much similar thought process comes from that. And that in itself is existing knowledge.
Skyblack
Posts: 119
Joined: June 12th, 2021, 11:56 am

Re: Deterioration of the human mind

Post by Skyblack »

I'll try; you're the OP yes?

The micro thing is to address exactly what you're suggesting, maybe..??? A way to free the mind of past and future to exist now so as to increase options and focus. yes someone else has also thought of it, but that does not make it wrong.

The Macro again is already thought of by another, and again not making it wrong. It attempts to be a why it is as it is. Not a religious or other structure but to explain or think of how/why is it like this. To exclude ideas already thought of is in itself very limiting.
Let's first be clear op isn't offering any resolution or any "answer" to this problem being discussed. So it isn't suggesting any panacea like for purposes of "increase options and focus." Second your objection of reinventing the wheel doesn't apply in light of the distinction created above. Knowledge is necessary in the technological and the material aspects of life but we are questioning if knowledge has nay place in the psychological?
I will be the student in this case and you the teacher, I still might not get your point please tell it in very simple terms such as a small child can understand.
No, we can discuss together are two humans concerned with what's going on in our lives.
If you suggest that by using any existing knowledge we are in error, I would then be at a loss as to how to proceed as even my own thoughts work from the context of existing knowledge. For example, one can know much of another, by understanding the attributes of the first language the person knows. A much similar thought process comes from that. And that in itself is existing knowledge.
Bingo. Now we may face the impossible question. Thought is knowledge and vice versa. So how does a lover of wisdom approach his life which is full of problems without the lens of knowledge which is part the problem.
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