Authority and Freedom

[Skyblack]

Now, how does the lover of wisdom accurately learn about himself and the world? Certainly not according to some analyst, some philosopher, some guru, some formula, some method. If we learn about ourselves according to an “expert” then we learn about that expert and what his/her thoughts are, not about ourselves. Besides, one simply has to look at the lives, the conduct, of these dime a dozen so called experts to get an accurate estimation of the value, or in most cases the lack thereof, of what they espouse. Their real lives indicate their clueless-ness.

One wonders why we submit to authority. Why are we always on the lookout for handouts? Whether the handouts are from the government, some holy book, the newest intellectual gimmick, the newest ideas so on and so forth. Interestingly, again, yesterday I saw a post which might explain this briefly. We submit to authority because all of us have this inward demand to be safe, this urge to be secure, to have an easy life. Desire for comfort and convenience trumps over sweat of the brow. It seems so long as we want to be secure in our possessions, in our power, in our thoughts, we must have authority. We will always be followers.

But to learn about oneself, all psychological authority must come to an end, whether it be the authority of the church or of the local priest, or the famous analyst, or of the greatest philosophers with their intellectual formulas, and so on.

It seems there is a need for a psychological revolution within the person if he/she is serious. A revolution of our own psyche wherein, all psychological authority is uprooted and thrown out. This is very difficult, for there is not only the outward authority, which one can easily reject, but there is inward authority: the inward authority of one's own experience, of one's own accumulated knowledge, of the opinions, ideas, beliefs, which goads one's life. It’s harder to be free of the latter.

These are in brief some of the issues that confront an inquirer inquiring into freedom.

[LuckyR]

Now, how does the lover of wisdom accurately learn about himself and the world? Certainly not according to some analyst, some philosopher, some guru, some formula, some method. If we learn about ourselves according to an “expert” then we learn about that expert and what his/her thoughts are, not about ourselves. Besides, one simply has to look at the lives, the conduct, of these dime a dozen so called experts to get an accurate estimation of the value, or in most cases the lack thereof, of what they espouse. Their real lives indicate their clueless-ness.

One wonders why we submit to authority. Why are we always on the lookout for handouts? Whether the handouts are from the government, some holy book, the newest intellectual gimmick, the newest ideas so on and so forth. Interestingly, again, yesterday I saw a post which might explain this briefly. We submit to authority because all of us have this inward demand to be safe, this urge to be secure, to have an easy life. Desire for comfort and convenience trumps over sweat of the brow. It seems so long as we want to be secure in our possessions, in our power, in our thoughts, we must have authority. We will always be followers.

But to learn about oneself, all psychological authority must come to an end, whether it be the authority of the church or of the local priest, or the famous analyst, or of the greatest philosophers with their intellectual formulas, and so on.

It seems there is a need for a psychological revolution within the person if he/she is serious. A revolution of our own psyche wherein, all psychological authority is uprooted and thrown out. This is very difficult, for there is not only the outward authority, which one can easily reject, but there is inward authority: the inward authority of one's own experience, of one's own accumulated knowledge, of the opinions, ideas, beliefs, which goads one's life. It’s harder to be free of the latter.

These are in brief some of the issues that confront an inquirer inquiring into freedom.

This is a very common outlook for folks of a certain age. I had that view myself at one time.

However, I will pose this thought. If every generation throws out previous generation's experience and comes up with their own analysis de novo, then there is no long term accumulation of knowledge and experience, everyone reinvents the wheel again and again. Not a recipe for progress.

Of course if every individual lived unique lives filled with unique thoughts, I guess there would be no alternative. But we are less unique than most suppose.

[Asif]

I agree with a lot of these points. The majority do desire comfort and a need to "control reality." That control is via the use of reductionist illusions and pet theories. In doing so they defer to fear and their illusions offer a fake comfort to reality,this is due to low self esteem.
Most are absolutely fine with this,as they in no way can cross the abyss of fear. The few that have tried have either lost the plot or retired into the status quo defeated and cynical.
Only a tiny few have that innate confidence to swim in the sea of reality. And those few also include traumatised individuals who are trying bravely to escape the conditioning of society,which i think the OP is referring to.
I myself have battled these intrusive psychological conditioned thoughts,and it's safe to say one feels so much freedom and happiness to do so successfully.
The closest process I would compare it to is pure meditation,or getting into the zone during sports. And this process can be regularly practiced to improve one's clarity and confidence

[Skyblack]

This is a very common outlook for folks of a certain age. I had that view myself at one time.

However, I will pose this thought. If every generation throws out previous generation's experience and comes up with their own analysis de novo, then there is no long term accumulation of knowledge and experience, everyone reinvents the wheel again and again. Not a recipe for progress.

Of course if every individual lived unique lives filled with unique thoughts, I guess there would be no alternative. But we are less unique than most suppose.

Thanks for the chuckle. While it will be easy to establish the falsity of your alleged personal claims, and your estimations on the subject matter of OP if we went into it but in light of our exchanges here https://onlinephilosophyclub.com/forum ... ead#unread , like i have said before it will be a waste of my energy and time to continue with trolls.

I will ask you this one more time, please don't come to a thread i have started.

[Skyblack]

I agree with a lot of these points. The majority do desire comfort and a need to "control reality." That control is via the use of reductionist illusions and pet theories. In doing so they defer to fear and their illusions offer a fake comfort to reality,this is due to low self esteem.
Most are absolutely fine with this,as they in no way can cross the abyss of fear. The few that have tried have either lost the plot or retired into the status quo defeated and cynical.
Only a tiny few have that innate confidence to swim in the sea of reality. And those few also include traumatised individuals who are trying bravely to escape the conditioning of society,which i think the OP is referring to.
I myself have battled these intrusive psychological conditioned thoughts,and it's safe to say one feels so much freedom and happiness to do so successfully.
The closest process I would compare it to is pure meditation,or getting into the zone during sports. And this process can be regularly practiced to improve one's clarity and confidence

Right. The OP isn't for the defeated and the cynical. On, the contrary it's for those that are willing to look at facts even after their defeat.

All we are doing at this time is unmasking the hidden workings of authority, it's movement in the human mind, it's effects, and how all these relates to freedom.

Can you say more on this?

[LuckyR]

This is a very common outlook for folks of a certain age. I had that view myself at one time.

However, I will pose this thought. If every generation throws out previous generation's experience and comes up with their own analysis de novo, then there is no long term accumulation of knowledge and experience, everyone reinvents the wheel again and again. Not a recipe for progress.

Of course if every individual lived unique lives filled with unique thoughts, I guess there would be no alternative. But we are less unique than most suppose.

Thanks for the chuckle. While it will be easy to establish the falsity of your alleged personal claims, and your estimations on the subject matter of OP if we went into it but in light of our exchanges here https://onlinephilosophyclub.com/forum ... ead#unread , like i have said before it will be a waste of my energy and time to continue with trolls.

I will ask you this one more time, please don't come to a thread i have started.

A couple of things:

If you feel my post that you replied to here is sarcastic, I can assure you it is not. I am actually eager to hear reasoned arguments that don't happen to agree with my own, which is a very common attitude here. I encourage you to embrace it.

Since many more folks read threads than post in them, there is additional value to postings beyond the written replies that get generated in response. Thus why neither your nor my opinions on various postings are very important.

[Asif]

I agree with a lot of these points. The majority do desire comfort and a need to "control reality." That control is via the use of reductionist illusions and pet theories. In doing so they defer to fear and their illusions offer a fake comfort to reality,this is due to low self esteem.
Most are absolutely fine with this,as they in no way can cross the abyss of fear. The few that have tried have either lost the plot or retired into the status quo defeated and cynical.
Only a tiny few have that innate confidence to swim in the sea of reality. And those few also include traumatised individuals who are trying bravely to escape the conditioning of society,which i think the OP is referring to.
I myself have battled these intrusive psychological conditioned thoughts,and it's safe to say one feels so much freedom and happiness to do so successfully.
The closest process I would compare it to is pure meditation,or getting into the zone during sports. And this process can be regularly practiced to improve one's clarity and confidence

Right. The OP isn't for the defeated and the cynical. On, the contrary it's for those that are willing to look at facts even after their defeat.

All we are doing at this time is unmasking the hidden workings of authority, it's movement in the human mind, it's effects, and how all these relates to freedom.

Can you say more on this?

The workings of authority on the human mind can be seen with what i would call intrusive thoughts. Thoughts that manifest in your mind which seem to be foreign to your general values and psyche.
These manifest a lot when you are under pressure or trying to solve an issue. These thoughts carry a stamp and force of fear.
If one is complacent one goes along with these thoughts,as fighting or ignoring these thoughts sometimes creates uncertainty and internal strife,procrastination.
These thoughts are from parents,childhood,education and the dominant ideology of the society one is familiar with.
For many These intrusions are a given,and can't be reasoned away. They must be worked out of ones psyche with consistent efforts in the different areas of life.
Basically one must work on ignoring,refuting the intrusive authoritarian thoughts and let one's one thoughts flood through and flow confidently,just like they are naturally meant to.
Language is one way These intrusive thoughts manifest. Thus we reject all PC and authoritarian speech and language.
Finally,one must learn to embrace the unknown and anxiety and fear. These are natural components of a creative lifestyle, One doesn't become obsessed with accumulating knowledge or eliminating anxiety but one swims and dances in the joy of competitive creativity.

[Skyblack]

A couple of things:

If you feel my post that you replied to here is sarcastic, I can assure you it is not. I am actually eager to hear reasoned arguments that don't happen to agree with my own, which is a very common attitude here. I encourage you to embrace it.

Since many more folks read threads than post in them, there is additional value to postings beyond the written replies that get generated in response. Thus why neither your nor my opinions on various postings are very important.

I am going to say this again, i am not going to "embrace" any trolling. Please do not post in my threads.

[mystery]

A couple of things:

If you feel my post that you replied to here is sarcastic, I can assure you it is not. I am actually eager to hear reasoned arguments that don't happen to agree with my own, which is a very common attitude here. I encourage you to embrace it.

Since many more folks read threads than post in them, there is additional value to postings beyond the written replies that get generated in response. Thus why neither your nor my opinions on various postings are very important.

I am going to say this again, i am not going to "embrace" any trolling. Please do not post in my threads.

Sky, he is not trolling, he has a different opinion. I suggest you consider his opinion as it is shared by some percentage of others. If it is an opinion that you disagree with learning how it works is really useful for being able to better articulate a postion. Always make use of what is available.

Also if everyone agrees with an OP, it will be a very dull forum.

[Atla]

Now, how does the lover of wisdom accurately learn about himself and the world? Certainly not according to some analyst, some philosopher, some guru, some formula, some method. If we learn about ourselves according to an “expert” then we learn about that expert and what his/her thoughts are, not about ourselves. Besides, one simply has to look at the lives, the conduct, of these dime a dozen so called experts to get an accurate estimation of the value, or in most cases the lack thereof, of what they espouse. Their real lives indicate their clueless-ness.

One wonders why we submit to authority. Why are we always on the lookout for handouts? Whether the handouts are from the government, some holy book, the newest intellectual gimmick, the newest ideas so on and so forth. Interestingly, again, yesterday I saw a post which might explain this briefly. We submit to authority because all of us have this inward demand to be safe, this urge to be secure, to have an easy life. Desire for comfort and convenience trumps over sweat of the brow. It seems so long as we want to be secure in our possessions, in our power, in our thoughts, we must have authority. We will always be followers.

But to learn about oneself, all psychological authority must come to an end, whether it be the authority of the church or of the local priest, or the famous analyst, or of the greatest philosophers with their intellectual formulas, and so on.

It seems there is a need for a psychological revolution within the person if he/she is serious. A revolution of our own psyche wherein, all psychological authority is uprooted and thrown out. This is very difficult, for there is not only the outward authority, which one can easily reject, but there is inward authority: the inward authority of one's own experience, of one's own accumulated knowledge, of the opinions, ideas, beliefs, which goads one's life. It’s harder to be free of the latter.

These are in brief some of the issues that confront an inquirer inquiring into freedom.

The average person lacks the capacity to think for himself/herself. Most of them are too weak-minded to even want to try, and those who are strong-minded enough to try, still fail due to insufficient intelligence. What is left for them is to submit to authority. The lover of wisdom is typically not someone from the average group.

[Skyblack]

Sky, he is not trolling, he has a different opinion. I suggest you consider his opinion as it is shared by some percentage of others. If it is an opinion that you disagree with learning how it works is really useful for being able to better articulate a postion. Always make use of what is available.

Also if everyone agrees with an OP, it will be a very dull forum.

Sir, i have posted the link to the thread where he was trolling on multiple occasions and on different days. He was informed his ad hominem's didn't inspire any reason to engage with him. In spite of that he came in to troll again. From that thread he then followed me here. He has been asked not to come to any of my threads because it's clear he a conflict monger and enjoys creating conflict.

Furthermore, your point of acceptance and rejection to OP doesn't hold ground as it's a strawman, just like the rest of the things you have said. I suggest you do not make it a habit of giving unsolicited advice in that condescending tone.

[Pattern-chaser]

Now, how does the lover of wisdom accurately learn about himself and the world? Certainly not according to some analyst, some philosopher, some guru, some formula, some method. If we learn about ourselves according to an “expert” then we learn about that expert and what his/her thoughts are, not about ourselves.

I admire your wish not to 'stand on the shoulders of giants', but your progress will be necessarily slow. I wish you God-speed on your journey of learning!

[Pattern-chaser]

I will ask you this one more time, please don't come to a thread i have started.

Philosophy forums don't work like that. I don't know if this is right or wrong, but it is so.

[Skyblack]

The workings of authority on the human mind can be seen with what i would call intrusive thoughts. Thoughts that manifest in your mind which seem to be foreign to your general values and psyche.
These manifest a lot when you are under pressure or trying to solve an issue. These thoughts carry a stamp and force of fear.
If one is complacent one goes along with these thoughts,as fighting or ignoring these thoughts sometimes creates uncertainty and internal strife,procrastination.
These thoughts are from parents,childhood,education and the dominant ideology of the society one is familiar with.
For many These intrusions are a given,and can't be reasoned away. They must be worked out of ones psyche with consistent efforts in the different areas of life.
Basically one must work on ignoring,refuting the intrusive authoritarian thoughts and let one's one thoughts flood through and flow confidently,just like they are naturally meant to.
Language is one way These intrusive thoughts manifest. Thus we reject all PC and authoritarian speech and language.
Finally,one must learn to embrace the unknown and anxiety and fear. These are natural components of a creative lifestyle, One doesn't become obsessed with accumulating knowledge or eliminating anxiety but one swims and dances in the joy of competitive creativity.

Excuse me for not seeing this message before. So you are saying thoughts and knowledge are the same. I agree, thought is a material process like knowledge. It's a response of memory to knowledge. And fear is a response to thoughts.

[Asif]

The workings of authority on the human mind can be seen with what i would call intrusive thoughts. Thoughts that manifest in your mind which seem to be foreign to your general values and psyche.
These manifest a lot when you are under pressure or trying to solve an issue. These thoughts carry a stamp and force of fear.
If one is complacent one goes along with these thoughts,as fighting or ignoring these thoughts sometimes creates uncertainty and internal strife,procrastination.
These thoughts are from parents,childhood,education and the dominant ideology of the society one is familiar with.
For many These intrusions are a given,and can't be reasoned away. They must be worked out of ones psyche with consistent efforts in the different areas of life.
Basically one must work on ignoring,refuting the intrusive authoritarian thoughts and let one's one thoughts flood through and flow confidently,just like they are naturally meant to.
Language is one way These intrusive thoughts manifest. Thus we reject all PC and authoritarian speech and language.
Finally,one must learn to embrace the unknown and anxiety and fear. These are natural components of a creative lifestyle, One doesn't become obsessed with accumulating knowledge or eliminating anxiety but one swims and dances in the joy of competitive creativity.

Excuse me for not seeing this message before. So you are saying thoughts and knowledge are the same. I agree, thought is a material process like knowledge. It's a response of memory to knowledge. And fear is a response to thoughts.

Would you consider memory,thought and knowledge to be the same? I do see a difference between intrusive thoughts and real intuitive knowledge and memory. And Memory and knowledge are not static processes but dynamic intuitions.