Is philosophy a political ideology?

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Terrapin Station
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Re: Is philosophy a political ideology?

Post by Terrapin Station »

Asif wrote: June 21st, 2021, 8:45 am OK. You claim folks are using the same methods but they are coming up with diametrically opposed realities. Somebodies wrong! Could it be different methods are used and that some are
using political valuations? Some methods are suppressed or controlled.
What do you have in mind there. What would be a "political valuation" or something that's suppressed or controlled (that's political . . . well, or not)?
You obviously value philosophy having done degrees,published,etc,etc,are you telling me you don't think it's the best method to understand the world and better than others?
It's just different. Different methodologies have their merits in my view. It's simply different perspectives of the same stuff. Different facets of the jewel so to speak.

Re "political" views, on stuff like that I'm extremely laissez-faire, basically a minarchist libertarian. Let your "freak flag" fly (and let others fly their own). ("freak flag" was a hippie thing--I'm kind of an old hippie, or at least I was kind of raised by old hippies/libertines (I was a bit young to be socially active in the actual hippie era--I was born in 1962) and have a lot of those dispositions.) So I'm not someone who wants to crush other folks' grooves, at least not as long as they're letting other people do their own thing, too.
Skyblack
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Joined: June 12th, 2021, 11:56 am

Re: Is philosophy a political ideology?

Post by Skyblack »

Labels, affiliations, ideologies, etc. can be used to bolster the ego and divide people. They can be and do get used for political purposes (the questionable kind). This is common knowledge. The same applies to those that align themselves as philosophers, does it not? One simply has to look at the state of academicians and their character defects to asses where they stand. Surely their lives aren't a testament to what ideally philosophy is supposed to accomplish. Quite the contrary actually. Not sure if this contributes to your OP?
Asif
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Joined: August 21st, 2020, 6:08 am

Re: Is philosophy a political ideology?

Post by Asif »

Terrapin Station wrote: June 21st, 2021, 8:56 am
Asif wrote: June 21st, 2021, 8:45 am OK. You claim folks are using the same methods but they are coming up with diametrically opposed realities. Somebodies wrong! Could it be different methods are used and that some are
using political valuations? Some methods are suppressed or controlled.
What do you have in mind there. What would be a "political valuation" or something that's suppressed or controlled (that's political . . . well, or not)?
You obviously value philosophy having done degrees,published,etc,etc,are you telling me you don't think it's the best method to understand the world and better than others?
It's just different. Different methodologies have their merits in my view. It's simply different perspectives of the same stuff. Different facets of the jewel so to speak.

Re "political" views, on stuff like that I'm extremely laissez-faire, basically a minarchist libertarian. Let your "freak flag" fly (and let others fly their own). ("freak flag" was a hippie thing--I'm kind of an old hippie, or at least I was kind of raised by old hippies/libertines (I was a bit young to be socially active in the actual hippie era--I was born in 1962) and have a lot of those dispositions.) So I'm not someone who wants to crush other folks' grooves, at least not as long as they're letting other people do their own thing, too.
Basically academia is run politically and always has been. Previously it was dominantly religious,now its dominantly materialist. And at all times free thought is only lowest within certain parameters. For instance a true mystic would be shunned by academia and religious authority in many cases.
In this way even those that are freer have to toe the line of what is acceptable to academia. You can't submit a philosophical poem to an analytic philosophy department.
It's not different perspectives because folks don't even agree there is a jewel!
I appreciate your political laissez faire stance,that's good.
But I don't see the point in thinking philosophy is just perspectives. And in reality philosophers act with certainty around their theories,this is why they get so animated when their pet theories are rejected. That's the politics,the debating with a view to denigrate common sense and Intuition. The dialectic and scientific method both do this.
Science dictates Public policy,that's politics.

Reason: off-topic ad hominem flooding
Skyblack
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Joined: June 12th, 2021, 11:56 am

Re: Is philosophy a political ideology?

Post by Skyblack »

There was serious typo but perhaps it's accurate, ;-)

Read it as assess
Steve3007
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Re: Is philosophy a political ideology?

Post by Steve3007 »

Philosophers in general are a priestly class,who think they are better than non philosophers.
Better at what? Philosophy? If so, I can see their point. Carpentry? If so, I disagree with them.
Asif
Posts: 99
Joined: August 21st, 2020, 6:08 am

Re: Is philosophy a political ideology?

Post by Asif »

Skyblack wrote: June 21st, 2021, 9:08 am Labels, affiliations, ideologies, etc. can be used to bolster the ego and divide people. They can be and do get used for political purposes (the questionable kind). This is common knowledge. The same applies to those that align themselves as philosophers, does it not? One simply has to look at the state of academicians and their character defects to asses where they stand. Surely their lives aren't a testament to what ideally philosophy is supposed to accomplish. Quite the contrary actually. Not sure if this contributes to your OP?
It does. This is similiar to what im saying,but in a different manner. The proof is in the academics pudding,as you say.
Philosophy does not examine its own assumptions,dogmas or psychological underpinnings.
Materialism justifies secularism and scientism.
This justifies the status quo. This in itself is a politically Conservative stance.
The same for leftists and fundamentalists
The history of philosophy is full of political wannabes,gatekeepers and those justifying oppression of human freedom.

Reason: off-topic ad hominem flooding
Asif
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Joined: August 21st, 2020, 6:08 am

Re: Is philosophy a political ideology?

Post by Asif »

Skyblack wrote: June 21st, 2021, 9:18 am There was serious typo but perhaps it's accurate, ;-)

Read it as assess
Lol! Typo was correct!

Reason: off-topic ad hominem flooding
Asif
Posts: 99
Joined: August 21st, 2020, 6:08 am

Re: Is philosophy a political ideology?

Post by Asif »

Steve3007 wrote: June 21st, 2021, 9:22 am
Philosophers in general are a priestly class,who think they are better than non philosophers.
Better at what? Philosophy? If so, I can see their point. Carpentry? If so, I disagree with them.
Ah,but is academic philosophy the only way to the truth?
To think it is,is an unproven and political stance.

Reason: off-topic ad hominem flooding
Steve3007
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Re: Is philosophy a political ideology?

Post by Steve3007 »

Ah,but is academic philosophy the only way to the truth?
The truth about what?
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Terrapin Station
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Re: Is philosophy a political ideology?

Post by Terrapin Station »

Asif wrote: June 21st, 2021, 9:18 am
Terrapin Station wrote: June 21st, 2021, 8:56 am
Asif wrote: June 21st, 2021, 8:45 am OK. You claim folks are using the same methods but they are coming up with diametrically opposed realities. Somebodies wrong! Could it be different methods are used and that some are
using political valuations? Some methods are suppressed or controlled.
What do you have in mind there. What would be a "political valuation" or something that's suppressed or controlled (that's political . . . well, or not)?
You obviously value philosophy having done degrees,published,etc,etc,are you telling me you don't think it's the best method to understand the world and better than others?
It's just different. Different methodologies have their merits in my view. It's simply different perspectives of the same stuff. Different facets of the jewel so to speak.

Re "political" views, on stuff like that I'm extremely laissez-faire, basically a minarchist libertarian. Let your "freak flag" fly (and let others fly their own). ("freak flag" was a hippie thing--I'm kind of an old hippie, or at least I was kind of raised by old hippies/libertines (I was a bit young to be socially active in the actual hippie era--I was born in 1962) and have a lot of those dispositions.) So I'm not someone who wants to crush other folks' grooves, at least not as long as they're letting other people do their own thing, too.
Basically academia is run politically and always has been. Previously it was dominantly religious,now its dominantly materialist. And at all times free thought is only lowest within certain parameters. For instance a true mystic would be shunned by academia and religious authority in many cases.
In this way even those that are freer have to toe the line of what is acceptable to academia. You can't submit a philosophical poem to an analytic philosophy department.
It's not different perspectives because folks don't even agree there is a jewel!
I appreciate your political laissez faire stance,that's good.
But I don't see the point in thinking philosophy is just perspectives. And in reality philosophers act with certainty around their theories,this is why they get so animated when their pet theories are rejected. That's the politics,the debating with a view to denigrate common sense and Intuition. The dialectic and scientific method both do this.
Science dictates Public policy,that's politics.
I'd agree that you'd have a problem turning in a painting instead of an essay in a philosophy course, and you'd have a problem turning in a philosophical essay instead of a painting in a visual art course, but I see that as neither political nor problematic in general. The whole gist of taking courses is that you're learning (how to do) certain sorts of things. If you're not interested in that, there's little point in taking the course in the first place.
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Terrapin Station
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Re: Is philosophy a political ideology?

Post by Terrapin Station »

Asif wrote: June 21st, 2021, 9:26 am
Skyblack wrote: June 21st, 2021, 9:08 am Labels, affiliations, ideologies, etc. can be used to bolster the ego and divide people. They can be and do get used for political purposes (the questionable kind). This is common knowledge. The same applies to those that align themselves as philosophers, does it not? One simply has to look at the state of academicians and their character defects to asses where they stand. Surely their lives aren't a testament to what ideally philosophy is supposed to accomplish. Quite the contrary actually. Not sure if this contributes to your OP?
It does. This is similiar to what im saying,but in a different manner. The proof is in the academics pudding,as you say.
Philosophy does not examine its own assumptions,dogmas or psychological underpinnings.
Materialism justifies secularism and scientism.
This justifies the status quo. This in itself is a politically Conservative stance.
The same for leftists and fundamentalists
The history of philosophy is full of political wannabes,gatekeepers and those justifying oppression of human freedom.
They may be minorities, but you can see from this survey of philosophers' stances that a fair amount are theists, a fair amount are not realists, many do not buy physicalism, etc.:

https://philpapers.org/surveys/results.pl
Asif
Posts: 99
Joined: August 21st, 2020, 6:08 am

Re: Is philosophy a political ideology?

Post by Asif »

Terrapin Station wrote: June 21st, 2021, 9:51 am
Asif wrote: June 21st, 2021, 9:26 am
Skyblack wrote: June 21st, 2021, 9:08 am Labels, affiliations, ideologies, etc. can be used to bolster the ego and divide people. They can be and do get used for political purposes (the questionable kind). This is common knowledge. The same applies to those that align themselves as philosophers, does it not? One simply has to look at the state of academicians and their character defects to asses where they stand. Surely their lives aren't a testament to what ideally philosophy is supposed to accomplish. Quite the contrary actually. Not sure if this contributes to your OP?
It does. This is similiar to what im saying,but in a different manner. The proof is in the academics pudding,as you say.
Philosophy does not examine its own assumptions,dogmas or psychological underpinnings.
Materialism justifies secularism and scientism.
This justifies the status quo. This in itself is a politically Conservative stance.
The same for leftists and fundamentalists
The history of philosophy is full of political wannabes,gatekeepers and those justifying oppression of human freedom.
They may be minorities, but you can see from this survey of philosophers' stances that a fair amount are theists, a fair amount are not realists, many do not buy physicalism, etc.:

https://philpapers.org/surveys/results.pl
You have missed my point in the last two posts.
Philosophers whether materialist or theistic are generally political and uphold the dominant ideology of "rationalism" or traditional theism.
And the point about courses is its supposed to.be about free thinking but only if it adheres to the academic method. Ergo,dogmatic caveats in free thinking. Your example was not relevant.

Reason: off-topic ad hominem flooding
Asif
Posts: 99
Joined: August 21st, 2020, 6:08 am

Re: Is philosophy a political ideology?

Post by Asif »

Steve3007 wrote: June 21st, 2021, 9:46 am
Ah,but is academic philosophy the only way to the truth?
The truth about what?
The truth about the human psyche.

Reason: off-topic ad hominem flooding
Steve3007
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Joined: June 15th, 2011, 5:53 pm

Re: Is philosophy a political ideology?

Post by Steve3007 »

One of the most interesting things about that survey is the succinctness with which the various philosophical positions are stated.
Steve3007
Posts: 10339
Joined: June 15th, 2011, 5:53 pm

Re: Is philosophy a political ideology?

Post by Steve3007 »

Asif wrote:The truth about the human psyche.
I've still no idea what you're referring to.
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