Fear of Death

Use this philosophy forum to discuss and debate general philosophy topics that don't fit into one of the other categories.

This forum is NOT for factual, informational or scientific questions about philosophy (e.g. "What year was Socrates born?"). Those kind of questions can be asked in the off-topic section.
Post Reply
User avatar
AmericanKestrel
Posts: 356
Joined: May 22nd, 2021, 6:26 am
Favorite Philosopher: Yagnyavalkya
Location: US

Re: Fear of Death

Post by AmericanKestrel »

Skyblack wrote: June 21st, 2021, 11:55 pm
True, ignorance cancels fear, except that awareness of one’s ignorance can spur fear.
Yes. That's why in OP one started by saying, "All fear is the fear of death",.

If one observes, there are two kinds of death. One biological when the organism dies, and one psychological when one's sense of self (an image) routinely dies . The latter happens every time we experience shock, pain, grief, sorrow etc. The sense of self, the "me", is obviously entwined to both the body and the psyche.

So when moments of uncertainty arises in ones' life, it immediately triggers fear via the pathways of experience and memory. For example one may think: i was hurt yesterday, i may get hurt tomorrow,, or, i was insure yesterday i may be insecure tomorrow.

Unable to cope with the fear of death (whether physical or psychological) the mind believes in some ideas. Without getting into the legitimacy of those ideas, the fact remains that any movement towards those ideas is a movement of fear trying to find security.

This is the reverse side of the coin. I have already in detail gone into the observe side of the coin, prior to this post.
Death is only one thing, that is when they cremate or bury you. One’s sense of self does not routinely die. Do you have a source for this?
Uncertainty causes fear, this is true. Such as losing one’s job. Death is a certainty, that is why you buy insurance.
"The Serpent did not lie."
AverageBozo
Posts: 502
Joined: May 11th, 2021, 11:20 am

Re: Fear of Death

Post by AverageBozo »

Skyblack wrote: June 21st, 2021, 7:08 pm As a passing remark, i have a suggestion, watch out for those reactions that make you do what you do. Right when they arise.

It's just a suggestion, has no authority, so you may disregard i also if you wish.
Asif, although he denies giving you advice, here, clearly, Skyblack is suggesting that you beware of knee-jerk reactions. At least that’s what he said here even if he modifies this later.

This confirms that you, A, were right elsewhere when you characterized S’s comment as one that attempts to tell you what to do.
AverageBozo
Posts: 502
Joined: May 11th, 2021, 11:20 am

Re: Fear of Death

Post by AverageBozo »

AmericanKestrel wrote: June 22nd, 2021, 12:06 pm
Skyblack wrote: June 21st, 2021, 4:17 pm I saw this thread viewtopic.php?f=1&t=17280

and it inspired me to pen a quick thought. Feel free to post @popeye1945

All fear is the fear of death,

for what is death but an ending of the known,

therefore all fear is the fear of an ending of the known.
Death is a known certainty. You cannot fear what is known. You only fear the unknown and uncertainty.
Yes, and those who fear dying are actually fearing the uncertainty about what will happen once they die.
User avatar
AmericanKestrel
Posts: 356
Joined: May 22nd, 2021, 6:26 am
Favorite Philosopher: Yagnyavalkya
Location: US

Re: Fear of Death

Post by AmericanKestrel »

AverageBozo wrote: June 22nd, 2021, 12:53 pm
AmericanKestrel wrote: June 22nd, 2021, 12:06 pm
Skyblack wrote: June 21st, 2021, 4:17 pm I saw this thread viewtopic.php?f=1&t=17280

and it inspired me to pen a quick thought. Feel free to post @popeye1945

All fear is the fear of death,

for what is death but an ending of the known,

therefore all fear is the fear of an ending of the known.
Death is a known certainty. You cannot fear what is known. You only fear the unknown and uncertainty.
Yes, and those who fear dying are actually fearing the uncertainty about what will happen once they die.
Those who fear dying, yes. But that is not what all fear, and all fear is not the fear of death which is the OP statement.
"The Serpent did not lie."
Skyblack
Posts: 119
Joined: June 12th, 2021, 11:56 am

Re: Fear of Death

Post by Skyblack »

AverageBozo
Yes, and those who fear dying are actually fearing the uncertainty about what will happen once they die.
So they fear the ending of the known (life), not the unknown (death). Their fear of uncertainty of death is an idea, a concept of what will happen. Which the what the OP has been saying all along. But in light of your previous instigating comment to encourage a troll/trolling, i will refrain from addressing your posts. Be well.
User avatar
AmericanKestrel
Posts: 356
Joined: May 22nd, 2021, 6:26 am
Favorite Philosopher: Yagnyavalkya
Location: US

Re: Fear of Death

Post by AmericanKestrel »

Skyblack wrote: June 22nd, 2021, 1:00 pm @AverageBozo
Yes, and those who fear dying are actually fearing the uncertainty about what will happen once they die.
So they fear the ending of the known (life), not the unknown (death). Their fear of uncertainty of death is an idea, a concept of what will happen. Which the what the OP has been saying all along. But in light of your previous instigating comment to encourage a troll/trolling, i will refrain from addressing your posts. Be well.
People who commit suicide are not fearing death, they fear life. It is the uncertainties of life that drives them to suicide.
"The Serpent did not lie."
AverageBozo
Posts: 502
Joined: May 11th, 2021, 11:20 am

Re: Fear of Death

Post by AverageBozo »

AmericanKestrel wrote: June 22nd, 2021, 12:08 pm
Skyblack wrote: June 21st, 2021, 4:54 pm Sure, there is fear of suffering, of uncertainty,

but if one looked deeper it's not the unknown man fears, but the fear is in that unknown he/she might lose the known. Fear of death is always of the ending of the known.

The known being the life man leads, however petty, shoddy, disorderly, conflict ridden.

Right Asif?
Many want to end the kind of life you describe. The take their own life. Death cannot be that fearful if they choose it over life which is unendurable.
You are describing desperate people who are suicidal. These are not normal people. Most are mentally ill and may view suicide as the only means to end depression.

You are actually claiming that death cannot be fearful if suicidal people choose suicide.

Not a convincing argument if you ask me.
AverageBozo
Posts: 502
Joined: May 11th, 2021, 11:20 am

Re: Fear of Death

Post by AverageBozo »

AmericanKestrel wrote: June 22nd, 2021, 12:58 pm
AverageBozo wrote: June 22nd, 2021, 12:53 pm
AmericanKestrel wrote: June 22nd, 2021, 12:06 pm
Skyblack wrote: June 21st, 2021, 4:17 pm I saw this thread viewtopic.php?f=1&t=17280

and it inspired me to pen a quick thought. Feel free to post @popeye1945

All fear is the fear of death,

for what is death but an ending of the known,

therefore all fear is the fear of an ending of the known.
Death is a known certainty. You cannot fear what is known. You only fear the unknown and uncertainty.
Yes, and those who fear dying are actually fearing the uncertainty about what will happen once they die.
Those who fear dying, yes. But that is not what all fear, and all fear is not the fear of death which is the OP statement.
Yes.
AverageBozo
Posts: 502
Joined: May 11th, 2021, 11:20 am

Re: Fear of Death

Post by AverageBozo »

Skyblack wrote: June 22nd, 2021, 1:00 pm @AverageBozo
Yes, and those who fear dying are actually fearing the uncertainty about what will happen once they die.
So they fear the ending of the known (life), not the unknown (death). Their fear of uncertainty of death is an idea, a concept of what will happen. Which the what the OP has been saying all along. But in light of your previous instigating comment to encourage a troll/trolling, i will refrain from addressing your posts. Be well.
Touché.
User avatar
AmericanKestrel
Posts: 356
Joined: May 22nd, 2021, 6:26 am
Favorite Philosopher: Yagnyavalkya
Location: US

Re: Fear of Death

Post by AmericanKestrel »

AverageBozo wrote: June 22nd, 2021, 1:07 pm
AmericanKestrel wrote: June 22nd, 2021, 12:08 pm
Skyblack wrote: June 21st, 2021, 4:54 pm Sure, there is fear of suffering, of uncertainty,

but if one looked deeper it's not the unknown man fears, but the fear is in that unknown he/she might lose the known. Fear of death is always of the ending of the known.

The known being the life man leads, however petty, shoddy, disorderly, conflict ridden.

Right Asif?
Many want to end the kind of life you describe. The take their own life. Death cannot be that fearful if they choose it over life which is unendurable.
You are describing desperate people who are suicidal. These are not normal people. Most are mentally ill and may view suicide as the only means to end depression.

You are actually claiming that death cannot be fearful if suicidal people choose suicide.

Not a convincing argument if you ask me.
"The Serpent did not lie."
Asif
Posts: 99
Joined: August 21st, 2020, 6:08 am

Re: Fear of Death

Post by Asif »

AverageBozo wrote: June 22nd, 2021, 12:49 pm
Skyblack wrote: June 21st, 2021, 7:08 pm As a passing remark, i have a suggestion, watch out for those reactions that make you do what you do. Right when they arise.

It's just a suggestion, has no authority, so you may disregard i also if you wish.
Asif, although he denies giving you advice, here, clearly, Skyblack is suggesting that you beware of knee-jerk reactions. At least that’s what he said here even if he modifies this later.

This confirms that you, A, were right elsewhere when you characterized S’s comment as one that attempts to tell you what to do.
Exactly. Skyblack is a very good poster in some ways. But his oversensitivity to anyone who rightly disagrees with him,and his hypocritical attitude of advising others whilst doing the exact thing he is advising against is shoddy. Plus then the audacity to claim he is not advising when he blatantly is.
It's the old physician,heal thyself syndrome.
I've agreed with a lot of his previous threads,but in this one he is patently wrong and getting owned by other posters.
But of course,he will just say everyone is a troll.
Does he not realise his knee jerk reactions to disagreement!?
The irony! I'm sure some sophistical strawman will follow from our priest!
@Skyblack

Reason: off-topic ad hominem flooding
Asif
Posts: 99
Joined: August 21st, 2020, 6:08 am

Re: Fear of Death

Post by Asif »

Skyblack wrote: June 22nd, 2021, 12:07 pm Hey did i tell i now have a pet monkey called Asif who is going to follow me around? When i feel like it i might throw it a banana (since he usually lacks it and craves for it) or i might just smack it when i so feel.

I know you want to be trained by daddy but you will have to run along now, daddy has work to do unlike you. Wait for the next time when daddy will train you. So long kitty.
Kindergarten sophistry! The only thing you be smacking is your dodgy keyboard mate!

Reason: off-topic ad hominem flooding
AverageBozo
Posts: 502
Joined: May 11th, 2021, 11:20 am

Re: Fear of Death

Post by AverageBozo »

To those who dispute S’s OP—including me for awhile—

IMO—

If you read S’s posts carefully, you will probably note that his/her usage of “death” and “unknown” are idiosyncratic.

If you accept his/her meaning, then you must agree with S that all fear is fear of death, I.e. fear of losing the known.

Where we mostly differ—myself included—is whether we are talking about the act of dying or the condition of being dead or something else when we are talking about death.

There’s also a diverse interpretation of what is the unknown/uncertain target of fear: death or afterdeath.

S’s meanings are intertwined within his/her posts. If the rest of us would clarify our meanings it could go a long way toward understanding and agreement.
Asif
Posts: 99
Joined: August 21st, 2020, 6:08 am

Re: Fear of Death

Post by Asif »

AverageBozo wrote: June 22nd, 2021, 1:46 pm To those who dispute S’s OP—including me for awhile—

IMO—

If you read S’s posts carefully, you will probably note that his/her usage of “death” and “unknown” are idiosyncratic.

If you accept his/her meaning, then you must agree with S that all fear is fear of death, I.e. fear of losing the known.

Where we mostly differ—myself included—is whether we are talking about the act of dying or the condition of being dead or something else when we are talking about death.

There’s also a diverse interpretation of what is the unknown/uncertain target of fear: death or afterdeath.

S’s meanings are intertwined within his/her posts. If the rest of us would clarify our meanings it could go a long way toward understanding and agreement.
If you read the responses of the OP you will see this is not a discussion,he is telling you how it is. And insisting on his idiosyncratic terms despite protests. I've asked him to clarify.
He doesn't appreciate clarifying his terms as he is telling all and sundry about the world,any dissent is a blow to his ego. I've asked him in other threads of the implications of his beliefs and he backs off and says I don't want to get Into that right now.
And obviously he is gearing up his threads to the denouement of his full belief system,but he needs to give it piecemeal because he thinks others can't keep up with him,and need to ponder on his weighty words...
Fact is,he not eloquent enough to explain his beliefs and so he resorts to passive aggressive nonsense and patronising tosh.
A shame. His threads are good. A lot of potential in terms of good discussion.
@Skyblack

Reason: off-topic ad hominem flooding
User avatar
AmericanKestrel
Posts: 356
Joined: May 22nd, 2021, 6:26 am
Favorite Philosopher: Yagnyavalkya
Location: US

Re: Fear of Death

Post by AmericanKestrel »

AverageBozo wrote: June 22nd, 2021, 1:46 pm To those who dispute S’s OP—including me for awhile—

IMO—

If you read S’s posts carefully, you will probably note that his/her usage of “death” and “unknown” are idiosyncratic.

If you accept his/her meaning, then you must agree with S that all fear is fear of death, I.e. fear of losing the known.

Where we mostly differ—myself included—is whether we are talking about the act of dying or the condition of being dead or something else when we are talking about death.

There’s also a diverse interpretation of what is the unknown/uncertain target of fear: death or afterdeath.

S’s meanings are intertwined within his/her posts. If the rest of us would clarify our meanings it could go a long way toward understanding and agreement.
Death like final, no life, no pulse. Ready for burial.
No relevance to after - life. If so they should mention it clearly.
"The Serpent did not lie."
Post Reply

Return to “General Philosophy”

2023/2024 Philosophy Books of the Month

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise
by John K Danenbarger
January 2023

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul
by Mitzi Perdue
February 2023

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness
by Chet Shupe
March 2023

The Unfakeable Code®

The Unfakeable Code®
by Tony Jeton Selimi
April 2023

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are
by Alan Watts
May 2023

Killing Abel

Killing Abel
by Michael Tieman
June 2023

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead
by E. Alan Fleischauer
July 2023

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough
by Mark Unger
August 2023

Predictably Irrational

Predictably Irrational
by Dan Ariely
September 2023

Artwords

Artwords
by Beatriz M. Robles
November 2023

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope
by Dr. Randy Ross
December 2023

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes
by Ali Master
February 2024

2022 Philosophy Books of the Month

Emotional Intelligence At Work

Emotional Intelligence At Work
by Richard M Contino & Penelope J Holt
January 2022

Free Will, Do You Have It?

Free Will, Do You Have It?
by Albertus Kral
February 2022

My Enemy in Vietnam

My Enemy in Vietnam
by Billy Springer
March 2022

2X2 on the Ark

2X2 on the Ark
by Mary J Giuffra, PhD
April 2022

The Maestro Monologue

The Maestro Monologue
by Rob White
May 2022

What Makes America Great

What Makes America Great
by Bob Dowell
June 2022

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!
by Jerry Durr
July 2022

Living in Color

Living in Color
by Mike Murphy
August 2022 (tentative)

The Not So Great American Novel

The Not So Great American Novel
by James E Doucette
September 2022

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches
by John N. (Jake) Ferris
October 2022

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All
by Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
November 2022

The Smartest Person in the Room: The Root Cause and New Solution for Cybersecurity

The Smartest Person in the Room
by Christian Espinosa
December 2022

2021 Philosophy Books of the Month

The Biblical Clock: The Untold Secrets Linking the Universe and Humanity with God's Plan

The Biblical Clock
by Daniel Friedmann
March 2021

Wilderness Cry: A Scientific and Philosophical Approach to Understanding God and the Universe

Wilderness Cry
by Dr. Hilary L Hunt M.D.
April 2021

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute: Tools To Spark Your Dream And Ignite Your Follow-Through

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute
by Jeff Meyer
May 2021

Surviving the Business of Healthcare: Knowledge is Power

Surviving the Business of Healthcare
by Barbara Galutia Regis M.S. PA-C
June 2021

Winning the War on Cancer: The Epic Journey Towards a Natural Cure

Winning the War on Cancer
by Sylvie Beljanski
July 2021

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream
by Dr Frank L Douglas
August 2021

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts
by Mark L. Wdowiak
September 2021

The Preppers Medical Handbook

The Preppers Medical Handbook
by Dr. William W Forgey M.D.
October 2021

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress: A Practical Guide

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress
by Dr. Gustavo Kinrys, MD
November 2021

Dream For Peace: An Ambassador Memoir

Dream For Peace
by Dr. Ghoulem Berrah
December 2021