The art of of the lie.

[mystery]

Everyone tells lies.

How do we limit it or should we?

Sometimes the truth is cruel, sometimes the truth is not convenient. Arbitrarily we make choices about when it is OK to lie. How do we accept this and how do we manage it?

Some ppl due to culture or biology have a difficult time lying, while others do it with pride. What have you seen or think on this topic? Are there any groups where certain lies are OK, that would not be in another?

Maybe it doesn't matter and life is really just “listener beware”.

[LuckyR]

Everyone tells lies.

How do we limit it or should we?

Sometimes the truth is cruel, sometimes the truth is not convenient. Arbitrarily we make choices about when it is OK to lie. How do we accept this and how do we manage it?

Some ppl due to culture or biology have a difficult time lying, while others do it with pride. What have you seen or think on this topic? Are there any groups where certain lies are OK, that would not be in another?

Maybe it doesn't matter and life is really just “listener beware”.

This has been an extensive topic at least once on this Forum. I was either the lone or one of the very few who stated that there is a legitimate and important role for untruths to play in society.

[mystery]

Everyone tells lies.

How do we limit it or should we?

Sometimes the truth is cruel, sometimes the truth is not convenient. Arbitrarily we make choices about when it is OK to lie. How do we accept this and how do we manage it?

Some ppl due to culture or biology have a difficult time lying, while others do it with pride. What have you seen or think on this topic? Are there any groups where certain lies are OK, that would not be in another?

Maybe it doesn't matter and life is really just “listener beware”.

This has been an extensive topic at least once on this Forum. I was either the lone or one of the very few who stated that there is a legitimate and important role for untruths to play in society.

I agree with you. Reasons exist that is moral to do it. The interesting thing is what do others think about what things are ok. None of us will really tell-all, but as it's a more or less anonymouse space we might.

[Sculptor1]

Everyone tells lies.

How do we limit it or should we?

Sometimes the truth is cruel, sometimes the truth is not convenient. Arbitrarily we make choices about when it is OK to lie. How do we accept this and how do we manage it?

Some ppl due to culture or biology have a difficult time lying, while others do it with pride. What have you seen or think on this topic? Are there any groups where certain lies are OK, that would not be in another?

Maybe it doesn't matter and life is really just “listener beware”.

One thing is obvious; we should take care to withold our votes for people whose immediate reaction is to say what they think will make themselves look good regardless of the truth.
Boris Johnson and Donald Trump are two such people. For them lying is a reflex action.

Dissimulation can take many forms.
Here's a cracker from Boris Johnson from seven years ago.

[AmericanKestrel]

Everyone tells lies.

How do we limit it or should we?

Sometimes the truth is cruel, sometimes the truth is not convenient. Arbitrarily we make choices about when it is OK to lie. How do we accept this and how do we manage it?

Some ppl due to culture or biology have a difficult time lying, while others do it with pride. What have you seen or think on this topic? Are there any groups where certain lies are OK, that would not be in another?

Maybe it doesn't matter and life is really just “listener beware”.

Sometimes we believe lies. It could be for several reasons, one of them being self protection which we may not be aware of. If we become aware of why we believe, we will stop believing.
So lies need believers in order to exist, it seems to me.
Why do we willingly believe lies?
And then there are liars who cannot stop lying, the lie for no reason at all. A kind of mental illness or dysfunction.

[Pattern-chaser]

Everyone tells lies.

How do we limit it or should we?

Sometimes the truth is cruel, sometimes the truth is not convenient. Arbitrarily we make choices about when it is OK to lie. How do we accept this and how do we manage it?

Some ppl due to culture or biology have a difficult time lying, while others do it with pride. What have you seen or think on this topic? Are there any groups where certain lies are OK, that would not be in another?

Maybe it doesn't matter and life is really just “listener beware”.

This has been an extensive topic at least once on this Forum. I was either the lone or one of the very few who stated that there is a legitimate and important role for untruths to play in society.

Yes, there are a few circumstances where lying seems the moral thing to do. But mostly it isn't. What can possibly justify communicating in untruths or half-truths? Our world (i.e. our media and news channels) is filled with lies and deceptions, and I can see no benefit from this, and many drawbacks. I assume we all can see this?

[Nick_A]

Everyone tells lies.

How do we limit it or should we?

Sometimes the truth is cruel, sometimes the truth is not convenient. Arbitrarily we make choices about when it is OK to lie. How do we accept this and how do we manage it?

Some ppl due to culture or biology have a difficult time lying, while others do it with pride. What have you seen or think on this topic? Are there any groups where certain lies are OK, that would not be in another?

Maybe it doesn't matter and life is really just “listener beware”.

This has been an extensive topic at least once on this Forum. I was either the lone or one of the very few who stated that there is a legitimate and important role for untruths to play in society.

Yes, there are a few circumstances where lying seems the moral thing to do. But mostly it isn't. What can possibly justify communicating in untruths or half-truths? Our world (i.e. our media and news channels) is filled with lies and deceptions, and I can see no benefit from this, and many drawbacks. I assume we all can see this?

Since we are tripartite souls living out of balance, lies are essential. They protect us from experiencing the contradictions natural for the truth of the human condition. Without this conscious experience nothing gets better and our species as a whole continues to live in contradiction protected by imagination made possible by the ability to lie.

[AverageBozo]

Everyone tells lies.

How do we limit it or should we?

Sometimes the truth is cruel, sometimes the truth is not convenient. Arbitrarily we make choices about when it is OK to lie. How do we accept this and how do we manage it?

Some ppl due to culture or biology have a difficult time lying, while others do it with pride. What have you seen or think on this topic? Are there any groups where certain lies are OK, that would not be in another?

Maybe it doesn't matter and life is really just “listener beware”.

This has been an extensive topic at least once on this Forum. I was either the lone or one of the very few who stated that there is a legitimate and important role for untruths to play in society.

Suppose you know that your best friend has just ingested a poison for which there is no antidote and which will surely cause your friend to have a painless demise in just a few minutes.

Do you tell your friend the truth of the situation or do you just say what a good friend s/he is?

Yes, lies by commission and omission have a legitimate role to play.

[mystery]

Everyone tells lies.

How do we limit it or should we?

Sometimes the truth is cruel, sometimes the truth is not convenient. Arbitrarily we make choices about when it is OK to lie. How do we accept this and how do we manage it?

Some ppl due to culture or biology have a difficult time lying, while others do it with pride. What have you seen or think on this topic? Are there any groups where certain lies are OK, that would not be in another?

Maybe it doesn't matter and life is really just “listener beware”.

This has been an extensive topic at least once on this Forum. I was either the lone or one of the very few who stated that there is a legitimate and important role for untruths to play in society.

Yes, there are a few circumstances where lying seems the moral thing to do. But mostly it isn't. What can possibly justify communicating in untruths or half-truths? Our world (i.e. our media and news channels) is filled with lies and deceptions, and I can see no benefit from this, and many drawbacks. I assume we all can see this?

I agree with you 95%. Imagine a child ask his mother, do you love me. For some reason in truth she does not... should she tell the child yes or no.

[mystery]

Everyone tells lies.

How do we limit it or should we?

Sometimes the truth is cruel, sometimes the truth is not convenient. Arbitrarily we make choices about when it is OK to lie. How do we accept this and how do we manage it?

Some ppl due to culture or biology have a difficult time lying, while others do it with pride. What have you seen or think on this topic? Are there any groups where certain lies are OK, that would not be in another?

Maybe it doesn't matter and life is really just “listener beware”.

This has been an extensive topic at least once on this Forum. I was either the lone or one of the very few who stated that there is a legitimate and important role for untruths to play in society.

Yes, there are a few circumstances where lying seems the moral thing to do. But mostly it isn't. What can possibly justify communicating in untruths or half-truths? Our world (i.e. our media and news channels) is filled with lies and deceptions, and I can see no benefit from this, and many drawbacks. I assume we all can see this?

Since we are tripartite souls living out of balance, lies are essential. They protect us from experiencing the contradictions natural for the truth of the human condition. Without this conscious experience nothing gets better and our species as a whole continues to live in contradiction protected by imagination made possible by the ability to lie.

So is it a good thing or a bad thing, are all lie evil, or are some of the ultimate goodness?

[mystery]

Everyone tells lies.

How do we limit it or should we?

Sometimes the truth is cruel, sometimes the truth is not convenient. Arbitrarily we make choices about when it is OK to lie. How do we accept this and how do we manage it?

Some ppl due to culture or biology have a difficult time lying, while others do it with pride. What have you seen or think on this topic? Are there any groups where certain lies are OK, that would not be in another?

Maybe it doesn't matter and life is really just “listener beware”.

Sometimes we believe lies. It could be for several reasons, one of them being self protection which we may not be aware of. If we become aware of why we believe, we will stop believing.
So lies need believers in order to exist, it seems to me.
Why do we willingly believe lies?
And then there are liars who cannot stop lying, the lie for no reason at all. A kind of mental illness or dysfunction.

What do you think drives a person to tell false things, perhaps fear?

[mystery]

Everyone tells lies.

How do we limit it or should we?

Sometimes the truth is cruel, sometimes the truth is not convenient. Arbitrarily we make choices about when it is OK to lie. How do we accept this and how do we manage it?

Some ppl due to culture or biology have a difficult time lying, while others do it with pride. What have you seen or think on this topic? Are there any groups where certain lies are OK, that would not be in another?

Maybe it doesn't matter and life is really just “listener beware”.

One thing is obvious; we should take care to withold our votes for people whose immediate reaction is to say what they think will make themselves look good regardless of the truth.
Boris Johnson and Donald Trump are two such people. For them lying is a reflex action.

Dissimulation can take many forms.
Here's a cracker from Boris Johnson from seven years ago.
image_2021-06-27_113923.png

Is a lie simply something that is not in line with truth, with truth being subjective ? Probably a revolutionist can be honest until they win. After they must lie to get influence on the half of the population that disagrees with them. All usually vote for the truth, some of the truth is false.

[mystery]

Everyone tells lies.

How do we limit it or should we?

Sometimes the truth is cruel, sometimes the truth is not convenient. Arbitrarily we make choices about when it is OK to lie. How do we accept this and how do we manage it?

Some ppl due to culture or biology have a difficult time lying, while others do it with pride. What have you seen or think on this topic? Are there any groups where certain lies are OK, that would not be in another?

Maybe it doesn't matter and life is really just “listener beware”.

This has been an extensive topic at least once on this Forum. I was either the lone or one of the very few who stated that there is a legitimate and important role for untruths to play in society.

Suppose you know that your best friend has just ingested a poison for which there is no antidote and which will surely cause your friend to have a painless demise in just a few minutes.

Do you tell your friend the truth of the situation or do you just say what a good friend s/he is?

Yes, lies by commission and omission have a legitimate role to play.

agree, my usual example is the "Do I look fat in this dress?" probably true, but not the right thing to say.

[LuckyR]

Everyone tells lies.

How do we limit it or should we?

Sometimes the truth is cruel, sometimes the truth is not convenient. Arbitrarily we make choices about when it is OK to lie. How do we accept this and how do we manage it?

Some ppl due to culture or biology have a difficult time lying, while others do it with pride. What have you seen or think on this topic? Are there any groups where certain lies are OK, that would not be in another?

Maybe it doesn't matter and life is really just “listener beware”.

This has been an extensive topic at least once on this Forum. I was either the lone or one of the very few who stated that there is a legitimate and important role for untruths to play in society.

Yes, there are a few circumstances where lying seems the moral thing to do. But mostly it isn't. What can possibly justify communicating in untruths or half-truths? Our world (i.e. our media and news channels) is filled with lies and deceptions, and I can see no benefit from this, and many drawbacks. I assume we all can see this?

The media is an extremely low bar (almost to the point of strawman), why? Because the media is in the truth business. Of course they shouldn't lie.

I pointed out that in common social interactions many if not most people don't deserve to know details of your life. Pushy folks routinely ask for more information than they have a right to know. The correct action is NOT to tell the truth. One option is to dodge and explain why they don't need to know your truth (a bit tricky if they are your boss). Another is to answer a question different to the one they asked (standard political move), but another is to out and out lie. All reasonable.

[Tegularius]

I think in each society the art consists in knowing when to and when not to. When is the truth mandatory and when is it dangerous. Depending on when or where, it could be a matter of life or death.