Why is emotional empathy so rare?

Use this philosophy forum to discuss and debate general philosophy topics that don't fit into one of the other categories.

This forum is NOT for factual, informational or scientific questions about philosophy (e.g. "What year was Socrates born?"). Those kind of questions can be asked in the off-topic section.
Post Reply
Atla
Posts: 2540
Joined: January 30th, 2018, 1:18 pm

Why is emotional empathy so rare?

Post by Atla »

Emotional empaths don't just feel their own emotions, but also automatically soak up the emotions of others around them like a sponge, and feel those emotions too through their own. It's estimated (it's also my experience) that less than 5% of people are emotional empaths. Often they don't even realize for a long time that most people don't have this ability. They can have a very different life experience than most humans, and can usually receive no guidence from anyone save maybe a few other empaths.

What do you think, do they have an extra, unusual ability? Or maybe everyone had this ability long ago, but then most people lost in in the last 10000 years or so?

(Related might be the issue that also less than 5% or so of people can pick up the facial microexpressions of others.)
True philosophy points to the Moon
User avatar
mystery
Posts: 380
Joined: May 14th, 2021, 5:41 am
Favorite Philosopher: Mike Tyson
Location: earth

Re: Why is emotional empathy so rare?

Post by mystery »

very interesting question and directly in the path of evolution.

It's about evolution, simple... the emotional empath male is softer and kinder together with much less greedy. its difficult to be greedy when you feel the pain of the one(s) that you're taking from.

greed is very attractive to women, who usually select a mate who is very confident and even greedy.

--

emotional empath females are softer and kinder and more often accept a greedy man who is very assertive because of the softer kinder behaviour they get essentially run over and give in.
--

emotional empath male is less likely to father any children.
emotional empath female is likely to be the mother of a child that has a father that is very greedy.

the chances to pass on this wonderful trait is low.
User avatar
LuckyR
Moderator
Posts: 7940
Joined: January 18th, 2015, 1:16 am

Re: Why is emotional empathy so rare?

Post by LuckyR »

Atla wrote: August 29th, 2021, 12:59 am Emotional empaths don't just feel their own emotions, but also automatically soak up the emotions of others around them like a sponge, and feel those emotions too through their own. It's estimated (it's also my experience) that less than 5% of people are emotional empaths. Often they don't even realize for a long time that most people don't have this ability. They can have a very different life experience than most humans, and can usually receive no guidence from anyone save maybe a few other empaths.

What do you think, do they have an extra, unusual ability? Or maybe everyone had this ability long ago, but then most people lost in in the last 10000 years or so?

(Related might be the issue that also less than 5% or so of people can pick up the facial microexpressions of others.)
Interesting topic. What is your understanding of the difference between a typical person who has the quality of empathy and an emotional empath?
"As usual... it depends."
Tegularius
Posts: 711
Joined: February 6th, 2021, 5:27 am

Re: Why is emotional empathy so rare?

Post by Tegularius »

I don't know to what extent it's common, but I do think it may not be so rare in cases of trauma or some kind of extremity which serves as catalyst to unbury what is not particularly practical in the usual course of living. It may manifest itself as a moment of identity with that which suffers or in serious danger of some kind. I think the impulse is most often demonstrated in war, presenting many more occasions to reveal itself, even sometimes among enemies.
The earth has a skin and that skin has diseases; one of its diseases is called man ... Nietzsche
Atla
Posts: 2540
Joined: January 30th, 2018, 1:18 pm

Re: Why is emotional empathy so rare?

Post by Atla »

LuckyR wrote: August 29th, 2021, 1:33 am
Atla wrote: August 29th, 2021, 12:59 am Emotional empaths don't just feel their own emotions, but also automatically soak up the emotions of others around them like a sponge, and feel those emotions too through their own. It's estimated (it's also my experience) that less than 5% of people are emotional empaths. Often they don't even realize for a long time that most people don't have this ability. They can have a very different life experience than most humans, and can usually receive no guidence from anyone save maybe a few other empaths.

What do you think, do they have an extra, unusual ability? Or maybe everyone had this ability long ago, but then most people lost in in the last 10000 years or so?

(Related might be the issue that also less than 5% or so of people can pick up the facial microexpressions of others.)
Interesting topic. What is your understanding of the difference between a typical person who has the quality of empathy and an emotional empath?
Unfortunately emotional empathy has multiple meanings in use. Here I generally divide humanity into three groups:

- People who completely or almost completely lack emotional empathy (sociopaths, clinical narcissists, psychopaths with turned-off empathy circuits, some borderlines, secondary psychopaths etc.): they lack the ability, or were forced to learned not to, or choose not to perceive other humans as feeling beings. Say 5-10% of the population.

- "Normals", who have emotional empathy in the sense that they recognize others as feeling beeings. (Autistics typically also belong here, they just have technical problems with the recognition process.) Say 90% of the population.

- "Empaths", who have emotional empathy in the sense that they recognize others as feeling beeings, AND also feel the emotions of others through their own emotions. This is of course no superpower and no magic is involved, what they feel is based on what they percieve the other person to be feeling, so they can be terribly fooled sometimes. Say less than 5% of the population.

I had this little theory that the third group was the "normal" group long ago, but I'm not sure at all.
True philosophy points to the Moon
Atla
Posts: 2540
Joined: January 30th, 2018, 1:18 pm

Re: Why is emotional empathy so rare?

Post by Atla »

mystery wrote: August 29th, 2021, 1:21 am very interesting question and directly in the path of evolution.

It's about evolution, simple... the emotional empath male is softer and kinder together with much less greedy. its difficult to be greedy when you feel the pain of the one(s) that you're taking from.

greed is very attractive to women, who usually select a mate who is very confident and even greedy.

--

emotional empath females are softer and kinder and more often accept a greedy man who is very assertive because of the softer kinder behaviour they get essentially run over and give in.
--

emotional empath male is less likely to father any children.
emotional empath female is likely to be the mother of a child that has a father that is very greedy.

the chances to pass on this wonderful trait is low.
Agree, I'm wondering though if we've always been this greedy and emotional empathy has always been sort of abnormal, or maybe we've devolved to become more greedy by establishing a civilization, and lost our natural emotional empathy along the way? Maybe evolution went off course, to reach the present level of advancement faster.
True philosophy points to the Moon
User avatar
Sculptor1
Posts: 7096
Joined: May 16th, 2019, 5:35 am

Re: Why is emotional empathy so rare?

Post by Sculptor1 »

Atla wrote: August 29th, 2021, 12:59 am Emotional empaths don't just feel their own emotions, but also automatically soak up the emotions of others around them like a sponge, and feel those emotions too through their own. It's estimated (it's also my experience) that less than 5% of people are emotional empaths. Often they don't even realize for a long time that most people don't have this ability. They can have a very different life experience than most humans, and can usually receive no guidence from anyone save maybe a few other empaths.

What do you think, do they have an extra, unusual ability? Or maybe everyone had this ability long ago, but then most people lost in in the last 10000 years or so?

(Related might be the issue that also less than 5% or so of people can pick up the facial microexpressions of others.)
"emotional empathy"? What other sorts are there?
There are a couple of problems with your assumtions here.
You do not present any evidence to support your idea that there is too little empathy.
You seem to be under the impression that there was more 10,000 years ago.
You have not said, nor justified what is the adequate or appropropriate level of empathy, nor any shown that it has changed historically.
But the worst of it is that you seem to have made your own category of human: "emotional empath", and decided that they represent 5%.
Did you just invent the term and the %age?
Steve3007
Posts: 10339
Joined: June 15th, 2011, 5:53 pm

Re: Why is emotional empathy so rare?

Post by Steve3007 »

I've read somewhere before the statistic that something like 5% of the population are psychopaths but I have never previously heard that less than 5% of people are emotionally empathetic. Obviously the degree to which we feel empathy with others is continuous, not discrete (i.e. it's not all or nothing), so it's difficult to work out what a statement like "95% of people don't feel emotional empathy" is actually supposed to mean (assuming it's not supposed to mean that 95% of the population are psychopaths), but anecdotally it seems false to me.

Off the top of my head, of the people I know well enough to be able to make a reasonable assessment, I can't think of any that lack all emotional empathy. Obviously the extent to which they empathize varies. As I said, it's a continuum. My step-daughter, for example, is very emotionally empathetic. The other day she burst into genuine tears when a guy on a TV quiz show got a question wrong and was clearly embarrassed. They're not all like that. But all have empathy for others to at least some extent. As seems to be the case more generally, it tends to be the women who have greater empathy than the men, but that's obviously not the same as saying that women have empathy and men don't. If it were somehow possible to quantify empathy, it would be a case of overlapping but not quite coinciding bell-curves.
Steve3007
Posts: 10339
Joined: June 15th, 2011, 5:53 pm

Re: Why is emotional empathy so rare?

Post by Steve3007 »

I think the differences that generally (but of course not always) tend to exist between women and men is interesting here. In my experience, women and men often treat the support of a distressed friend or relative quite differently. Men often tend to treat it as a problem to be solved. So they try to collect evidence and then work out and propose possible solutions to what they perceive to be the problem. Whereas women have more of a tendency to simply listen and share in the suffering. This was vividly illustrated over the past year or so when a friend of my partner/fiancee/wife (we got married recently) suffered a terrible family tragedy. The terrible nature of this tragedy meant that nobody who knew this friend, including me, could help but to feel very distressed about it. But it affected my wife very, very deeply and she has spent a lot of time with here friend simply being with her and showing her that, even though there is no possible solution to the tragedy and nothing that can make it go away, she is at least not suffering alone.

Most of my experience in life has been that women's natural tendency to share in suffering rather than attempt to analyze potential solutions to problems is greater than that of men. That's not to necessarily say that one is somehow better or more worthy of praise than the other. It's just an observation of what seems to be the case.
Atla
Posts: 2540
Joined: January 30th, 2018, 1:18 pm

Re: Why is emotional empathy so rare?

Post by Atla »

Steve3007 wrote: August 29th, 2021, 7:50 am I've read somewhere before the statistic that something like 5% of the population are psychopaths but I have never previously heard that less than 5% of people are emotionally empathetic. Obviously the degree to which we feel empathy with others is continuous, not discrete (i.e. it's not all or nothing), so it's difficult to work out what a statement like "95% of people don't feel emotional empathy" is actually supposed to mean (assuming it's not supposed to mean that 95% of the population are psychopaths), but anecdotally it seems false to me.

Off the top of my head, of the people I know well enough to be able to make a reasonable assessment, I can't think of any that lack all emotional empathy. Obviously the extent to which they empathize varies. As I said, it's a continuum. My step-daughter, for example, is very emotionally empathetic. The other day she burst into genuine tears when a guy on a TV quiz show got a question wrong and was clearly embarrassed. They're not all like that. But all have empathy for others to at least some extent. As seems to be the case more generally, it tends to be the women who have greater empathy than the men, but that's obviously not the same as saying that women have empathy and men don't. If it were somehow possible to quantify empathy, it would be a case of overlapping but not quite coinciding bell-curves.
Steve3007 wrote: August 29th, 2021, 8:05 am I think the differences that generally (but of course not always) tend to exist between women and men is interesting here. In my experience, women and men often treat the support of a distressed friend or relative quite differently. Men often tend to treat it as a problem to be solved. So they try to collect evidence and then work out and propose possible solutions to what they perceive to be the problem. Whereas women have more of a tendency to simply listen and share in the suffering. This was vividly illustrated over the past year or so when a friend of my partner/fiancee/wife (we got married recently) suffered a terrible family tragedy. The terrible nature of this tragedy meant that nobody who knew this friend, including me, could help but to feel very distressed about it. But it affected my wife very, very deeply and she has spent a lot of time with here friend simply being with her and showing her that, even though there is no possible solution to the tragedy and nothing that can make it go away, she is at least not suffering alone.

Most of my experience in life has been that women's natural tendency to share in suffering rather than attempt to analyze potential solutions to problems is greater than that of men. That's not to necessarily say that one is somehow better or more worthy of praise than the other. It's just an observation of what seems to be the case.
Yes but that's not what the topic is about, see the OP and my further clarification to LuckyR.
True philosophy points to the Moon
Steve3007
Posts: 10339
Joined: June 15th, 2011, 5:53 pm

Re: Why is emotional empathy so rare?

Post by Steve3007 »

Atla wrote:Yes but that's not what the topic is about, see the OP and my further clarification to LuckyR.
I got the impression, from the OP and from your comments to LuckyR, that the central theme of the topic was the thesis that about 90% of the population (what you refer to as "Normals") don't feel the emotions of others through their own emotions (i.e. don't empathize). All I really said was that that's not my experience. As I said, in my experience, almost everyone feels empathy to varying extents.

Was that impression wrong?
Atla
Posts: 2540
Joined: January 30th, 2018, 1:18 pm

Re: Why is emotional empathy so rare?

Post by Atla »

Steve3007 wrote: August 29th, 2021, 8:20 am
Atla wrote:Yes but that's not what the topic is about, see the OP and my further clarification to LuckyR.
I got the impression, from the OP and from your comments to LuckyR, that the central theme of the topic was the thesis that about 90% of the population (what you refer to as "Normals") don't feel the emotions of others through their own emotions (i.e. don't empathize). All I really said was that that's not my experience. As I said, in my experience, almost everyone feels empathy to varying extents.

Was that impression wrong?
I'd say it was wrong, what "normals" feel to varying degrees is more like sympathy, they imagine what it would be like to be in the other person's shoes, and they feel something abut that. In the OP I was referring to the literal "empaths" who, in addition to the above, also automatically feel the emotions of others around them (even if they don't try to). Often they can't even tell their own emotions from the emotions of others.

Saw some study suggesting that they are around 1-2% of the population, I believe there are more than that, but probably less than 10%.
True philosophy points to the Moon
Steve3007
Posts: 10339
Joined: June 15th, 2011, 5:53 pm

Re: Why is emotional empathy so rare?

Post by Steve3007 »

OK, so it's about empathy as distinct from sympathy. OK, I see your point. My anecdotal experience still seems to me to disagree. It still seems to me that most people I know feel genuine empathy and not just sympathy, but as I can't get inside their heads, I don't know that for sure so could be wrong.
User avatar
chewybrian
Posts: 1594
Joined: May 9th, 2018, 7:17 pm
Favorite Philosopher: Epictetus
Location: Florida man

Re: Why is emotional empathy so rare?

Post by chewybrian »

While I don't doubt heredity plays a role, I do doubt that we are born with a certain level of empathy. We might tend to lean one way or another, or to learn empathy more or less easily, but I do think most of us can learn it.

I think the reason so few people have it is that we don't usually nurture, reinforce or reward it. We learn objective ways to get what we want, but we spend near zero time in school learning about emotion. There is some lip service to caring or doing the right thing in the media, but it is more often about accomplishments or 'winning'. You're not likely to get a raise for being the one who cares the most.

What I am getting at is that we could change the level of empathy present in the population, to some extent, if we recognized its value and worked to encourage it. Allotting time in school for the study of philosophy and psychology would be one way to move the needle.
"If determinism holds, then past events have conspired to cause me to hold this view--it is out of my control. Either I am right about free will, or it is not my fault that I am wrong."
Steve3007
Posts: 10339
Joined: June 15th, 2011, 5:53 pm

Re: Why is emotional empathy so rare?

Post by Steve3007 »

chewybrian wrote:I think the reason so few people have it is that we don't usually nurture, reinforce or reward it. We learn objective ways to get what we want, but we spend near zero time in school learning about emotion.
If it is true that there is less genuine empathy in modern societies then I suspect it probably is related to the way in which societies have developed from small village-like communities in which we know everybody and are quite closely related to most, to large societies where relationships are more transactional - the objective ways to get what we want that you mentioned there. If that's true, then I'm not sure how much allotting time to studying philosophy and psychology in school would help. I guess that might help up to understand why we lack empathy, but that's not the same as feeling it. It seems to me that a greater re-emphasis on personal relationships with family and friends would be a better solution. So, with that in mind, I'm going to get off here for a bit and see what my family are up to! (My wife's gone to London to visit her ex-father-in-law, my step-daughter is at a music festival and my oldest son is watching football with his friends, so that just leaves to youngest.)

Incidentally, I've sometimes thought that slightly greater empathy could be encouraged here if we all posted photos of ourselves. Perhaps I'll suggest it in the lounge.
Post Reply

Return to “General Philosophy”

2023/2024 Philosophy Books of the Month

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise
by John K Danenbarger
January 2023

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul
by Mitzi Perdue
February 2023

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness
by Chet Shupe
March 2023

The Unfakeable Code®

The Unfakeable Code®
by Tony Jeton Selimi
April 2023

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are
by Alan Watts
May 2023

Killing Abel

Killing Abel
by Michael Tieman
June 2023

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead
by E. Alan Fleischauer
July 2023

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough
by Mark Unger
August 2023

Predictably Irrational

Predictably Irrational
by Dan Ariely
September 2023

Artwords

Artwords
by Beatriz M. Robles
November 2023

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope
by Dr. Randy Ross
December 2023

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes
by Ali Master
February 2024

2022 Philosophy Books of the Month

Emotional Intelligence At Work

Emotional Intelligence At Work
by Richard M Contino & Penelope J Holt
January 2022

Free Will, Do You Have It?

Free Will, Do You Have It?
by Albertus Kral
February 2022

My Enemy in Vietnam

My Enemy in Vietnam
by Billy Springer
March 2022

2X2 on the Ark

2X2 on the Ark
by Mary J Giuffra, PhD
April 2022

The Maestro Monologue

The Maestro Monologue
by Rob White
May 2022

What Makes America Great

What Makes America Great
by Bob Dowell
June 2022

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!
by Jerry Durr
July 2022

Living in Color

Living in Color
by Mike Murphy
August 2022 (tentative)

The Not So Great American Novel

The Not So Great American Novel
by James E Doucette
September 2022

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches
by John N. (Jake) Ferris
October 2022

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All
by Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
November 2022

The Smartest Person in the Room: The Root Cause and New Solution for Cybersecurity

The Smartest Person in the Room
by Christian Espinosa
December 2022

2021 Philosophy Books of the Month

The Biblical Clock: The Untold Secrets Linking the Universe and Humanity with God's Plan

The Biblical Clock
by Daniel Friedmann
March 2021

Wilderness Cry: A Scientific and Philosophical Approach to Understanding God and the Universe

Wilderness Cry
by Dr. Hilary L Hunt M.D.
April 2021

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute: Tools To Spark Your Dream And Ignite Your Follow-Through

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute
by Jeff Meyer
May 2021

Surviving the Business of Healthcare: Knowledge is Power

Surviving the Business of Healthcare
by Barbara Galutia Regis M.S. PA-C
June 2021

Winning the War on Cancer: The Epic Journey Towards a Natural Cure

Winning the War on Cancer
by Sylvie Beljanski
July 2021

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream
by Dr Frank L Douglas
August 2021

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts
by Mark L. Wdowiak
September 2021

The Preppers Medical Handbook

The Preppers Medical Handbook
by Dr. William W Forgey M.D.
October 2021

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress: A Practical Guide

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress
by Dr. Gustavo Kinrys, MD
November 2021

Dream For Peace: An Ambassador Memoir

Dream For Peace
by Dr. Ghoulem Berrah
December 2021