Do Thoughts Determine What Happens In Life?

Use this philosophy forum to discuss and debate general philosophy topics that don't fit into one of the other categories.

This forum is NOT for factual, informational or scientific questions about philosophy (e.g. "What year was Socrates born?"). Those kind of questions can be asked in the off-topic section.
User avatar
JackDaydream
Posts: 3220
Joined: July 25th, 2021, 5:16 pm

Do Thoughts Determine What Happens In Life?

Post by JackDaydream »

I do believe that the idea of the law of attraction, as described by Esther and Jeremy Hicks, and a number of other writers, is useful.This view is that what becomes manifest in the outer circumstances in our lives is dependent upon our thoughts in a causal way. It involves the argument that negative and positive thinking affect us to the point where we draw specific events to take place in our lives. I have found this idea makes sense for me and I know that my own mindset seems to affect what really happens in my own life, and that gratefulness in itself seems to lead towards a more positive flow rather moaning all the time. Sometimes, people have argued that the law of attraction doesn't always work, because we don't always get what we seek, in spite of our our strong wishes, but advocates of the idea suggest that this is probably linked to discrepancies between our conscious and subconscious desires.

I have been wondering how this relates to philosophy recently. It seems to be based on a view that causality is linked to states of mind somehow. Of course, on a basic level, our thinking is a pathway to bringing forth the actions necessary for events to occur. However, I think that the theory is stating a little more, with intentionality being the key factor. Also, it has connection with the issue of chance in life, and is life a series of mere random events? I am not convinced that there are any chances or coincidences in life, although I realise that perception of does involve our own perception and construction of meanings in life experiences. What do you think?


I am raising this discussion with a view to exploring the causal role of thinking and intentionality. To what extent do we have the power to change and determine our own destinies as creative agents, or are we bound to random events and our material circumstances as aspects beyond our conscious control?
PoeticUniverse
Posts: 638
Joined: April 4th, 2015, 7:25 pm

Re: Do Thoughts Determine What Happens In Life?

Post by PoeticUniverse »

JackDaydream wrote: September 1st, 2021, 7:21 am I am raising this discussion with a view to exploring the causal role of thinking and intentionality.
As Determined

Is future connected to the present?
In more ways perhaps than you’d want it sent,
As the consistencies you might resent:
All future flowers from seeds of the present.


As if Not Determined

Close your eyes and realize the light within;
Allow visualization to begin;
This attracts into your life: dreams, wishes,
And desires—all that you would believe in!

Dreams become imagination’s command;
The impossible we now understand.
To know that dreams can come true makes them so.
A real fantasyland is being planned.

Success blossoms out of a thoughtful dream,
Grown from seeds of what life to one should seem,
Then bears forth fruit, healthy and delicious,
In our garden watered by the wishing stream.

Life roots fast in the fertile cracks of day,
From seeds planted along the rocky way.
Like artisans, we mix our work and play,
Nurturing, then harvesting life’s bouquet.
User avatar
JackDaydream
Posts: 3220
Joined: July 25th, 2021, 5:16 pm

Re: Do Thoughts Determine What Happens In Life?

Post by JackDaydream »

@PoeticUniverse


Thanks for your reply and I do believe that creative visualisation helps. However, I think that it not always particularly easy to put into practice because images and thoughts flow into our consciousness. When the negative ones come it can be frustrating or futile to battle against them and it is probably best not to fight them but let them flow and observe them mindfully. But, it is likely that by focusing in on and strengthening the positive ones is going to be the most beneficial. In a similar way, I know that if I am having one of my dark days if I try to force myself to listen to happy music it can be irritating so I will definitely listen to a bit of goth , emo, and Nirvana. But I think that to listen to such music all the time can contribute to depression, so when I feel a bit better I will try to listen to something more uplifting. It is probably about raising one's state of mind to a positive vibration to attract positive emotion and experiences in a magnetic way.
User avatar
chewybrian
Posts: 1594
Joined: May 9th, 2018, 7:17 pm
Favorite Philosopher: Epictetus
Location: Florida man

Re: Do Thoughts Determine What Happens In Life?

Post by chewybrian »

I think stoic philosophy has a lot to say in response to your question. We don't get to determine the state of the world in which we live, but we always get to determine our opinion of it, our reaction to it, our own desires and aversions. Our (often unfounded or unrealistic) expectations determine our assessment of how things are going, but we have no right or reason to expect anything other than what is. We can reset our expectations as often as necessary to make a kinder assessment of our situation.

Further, our attitude can have a real effect upon the experiences we have. If, for example, you distrust others excessively, they will tend to distrust you. The very idea with which you began, that the world is hostile, actually makes the world more hostile to you! Of course, this effect is not instantaneous, not overwhelming, and not even guaranteed. But, a good attitude can help you to gain friends worth having in the long run, and encourage some people to treat you kindly who might have otherwise distrusted you or even treated you with contempt.

I guess you could say that your opinion essentially becomes your reality. You control your opinion, and thus to a certain extent, or at least from a certain point of view, you control your reality through your thoughts.

From Epictetus:
Men are disturbed, not by things, but by the principles and notions which they form concerning things. Death, for instance, is not terrible, else it would have appeared so to Socrates. But the terror consists in our notion of death that it is terrible. When therefore we are hindered, or disturbed, or grieved, let us never attribute it to others, but to ourselves; that is, to our own principles. An uninstructed person will lay the fault of his own bad condition upon others. Someone just starting instruction will lay the fault on himself. Some who is perfectly instructed will place blame neither on others nor on himself...

The man who is not under restraint is free, to whom things are exactly in that state in which he wishes them to be; but he who can be restrained or compelled or hindered, or thrown into any circumstances against his will, is a slave. But who is free from restraint? He who desires nothing that belongs to others. And what are the things which belong to others? Those which are not in our power either to have or not to have, or to have of a certain kind or in a certain manner. Therefore the body belongs to another, the parts of the body belong to another, possession belongs to another. If, then, you are attached to any of these things as your own, you will pay the penalty which it is proper for him to pay who desires what belongs to another. This road leads to freedom, that is the only way of escaping from slavery, to be able to say at last with all your soul: Lead me, O Zeus, and thou O destiny, The way that I am bid by you to go.
"If determinism holds, then past events have conspired to cause me to hold this view--it is out of my control. Either I am right about free will, or it is not my fault that I am wrong."
stevie
Posts: 762
Joined: July 19th, 2021, 11:08 am

Re: Do Thoughts Determine What Happens In Life?

Post by stevie »

Thinking may form habits, habits of future thinking and habits of the mode of perceiving and habits of intuitions. Thus thinking may have an impact on general experience of life, on feelings and moods and life energy. This then may influence what happens to oneself in life but I do not believe in "law of attraction" or determinism to be the true basis of what happens.
mankind ... must act and reason and believe; though they are not able, by their most diligent enquiry, to satisfy themselves concerning the foundation of these operations, or to remove the objections, which may be raised against them [Hume]
PoeticUniverse
Posts: 638
Joined: April 4th, 2015, 7:25 pm

Re: Do Thoughts Determine What Happens In Life?

Post by PoeticUniverse »

Image

Come, fill the Cup, and in the Fire of Spring
The Winter Garment of Repentance fling:
The Bird of Time has but a little way
To fly—and Lo! the Bird is on the Wing.
—Omar
User avatar
JackDaydream
Posts: 3220
Joined: July 25th, 2021, 5:16 pm

Re: Do Thoughts Determine What Happens In Life?

Post by JackDaydream »

@PoeticUniverse

I like the picture you have just made. It has cheered me up because a problem has become manifest in my life since I have created this thread. Water is coming through the ceiling from rooms upstairs into my room. The landlord is out of the country at the moment and the water is coming from people's rooms upstairs. I am wondering about this issue in relation to the thread topic. Thinking about negative events as manifestations of thinking, I am certainly not believing that my mindset has lead to the cause of the dripping water. I am also considering to what extent the creative visualisation will help. I don't think visualisation is going to help alone, but I do believe that doing some may help my own focus and state of mind to be able to remain positive to think of ways of finding solutions in real life. This may show something of the role of the role of thought as a determining factor and the flow of your picture did stimulate some positive thinking and framing.
User avatar
Sculptor1
Posts: 7091
Joined: May 16th, 2019, 5:35 am

Re: Do Thoughts Determine What Happens In Life?

Post by Sculptor1 »

What happens in life determines your thoughts.
User avatar
JackDaydream
Posts: 3220
Joined: July 25th, 2021, 5:16 pm

Re: Do Thoughts Determine What Happens In Life?

Post by JackDaydream »

@chewybrian

Thanks for your reply. Based on what you have written and the little I have read on Stoicism, I am seeing parallels between the ideas of Stoic philosophy and the thinking of the cognitive behavioral therapy traditions. In the CBT model the emphasis is upon how it is not events, including our interaction with others, which is the actual problem directly, but our perception and interpretation of events. This is a basis for starting to address our own distress and formulate goals to address more practical matters.
User avatar
JackDaydream
Posts: 3220
Joined: July 25th, 2021, 5:16 pm

Re: Do Thoughts Determine What Happens In Life?

Post by JackDaydream »

@stevie

In my response to the comment previous to your post, I have just spoken about the cognitive behavioral approach to problems in life. That particular model focuses upon the way in which thinking affects emotions and habits. I have worked in a context in which CBT was used to help people cope and I am wondering how this kind of model works in relation to the law of attraction point of view. Are they oppositional or complementary? Probably, the two can be used in conjunction with one another although most people would not be connecting the two.

I would imagine that many who read philosophy, like yourself, find it harder to accept the law of attraction. I think that is probably because it seems a bit mystical. In contrast, the CBT approach could be seen as having some kind of phenomenological basis. However, both come with an emphasis on working with mental states and framing. I think that the law of attraction works on the 'magnetic' or energy states of consciousness which propel us in life, or even the will, so it may be that it is not that mysterious but that no one has formulated in a scientific way presently.
User avatar
chewybrian
Posts: 1594
Joined: May 9th, 2018, 7:17 pm
Favorite Philosopher: Epictetus
Location: Florida man

Re: Do Thoughts Determine What Happens In Life?

Post by chewybrian »

JackDaydream wrote: September 2nd, 2021, 4:07 am @chewybrian

Thanks for your reply. Based on what you have written and the little I have read on Stoicism, I am seeing parallels between the ideas of Stoic philosophy and the thinking of the cognitive behavioral therapy traditions. In the CBT model the emphasis is upon how it is not events, including our interaction with others, which is the actual problem directly, but our perception and interpretation of events. This is a basis for starting to address our own distress and formulate goals to address more practical matters.
There is no doubt that you are right about this. Here is a quote from the man who started Rational Emotive Behavioral Therapy, which later became Cognitive Behavioral Therapy:
When I started to get disillusioned with psychoanalysis I reread philosophy and was reminded of the constructivist notion that Epictetus had proposed 2,000 years ago: "People are disturbed not by events that happen to them, but by their view of them." I could see how that applied to many of my clients.
Albert Ellis
"If determinism holds, then past events have conspired to cause me to hold this view--it is out of my control. Either I am right about free will, or it is not my fault that I am wrong."
User avatar
JackDaydream
Posts: 3220
Joined: July 25th, 2021, 5:16 pm

Re: Do Thoughts Determine What Happens In Life?

Post by JackDaydream »

@chewybrian
I think that the writings of Ellis are very useful and I share his disillusionment with psychotherapy. I did some training in psychotherapy and art psychotherapy. What I found was that a lot of psychotherapy focuses on the negative and when I had some personal therapy while undertaking training is that dwelling on past negative experiences made me feel worse. Some people say you have to feel worse before you get to the point of feeling better. However, I am not sure that feeling worse is always followed by feeling better necessarily. The only thing which I would add is that I know that some people who have experienced cognitive approaches in therapy have found that it sometimes does not go deep enough and ignores the events of the past.. So, I would argue that any the past cannot be ignored and it does involve a careful balance.
User avatar
JackDaydream
Posts: 3220
Joined: July 25th, 2021, 5:16 pm

Re: Do Thoughts Determine What Happens In Life?

Post by JackDaydream »

@Sculptor1

I think that it is so true that experiences affect thoughts. It is extremely difficult for someone in difficult life circumstances to feel positive. While it can be argued that it is our interpretation of experiences which cause us distress, the suffering involved in experiences cannot be ignored. These often include actual material circumstances, including illness, poverty or even homelessness. It also seems that some people have more to cope with, even in childhood.

I definitely wouldn't wish to underplay the real nature of experiences. It is not that people should be criticised for feeling negative. I am thinking more about how thought can be used to try to break free from the trap of negativity. In my own experience, I find that the more I dwell on the negative it seems to draw me more into negative experiences. The point of my thread is really about the power to break free of vicious cycles, and about thinking about ways in which individuals, rather than being victims, can begin to create their own destinies actively and, in an empowering way.
PoeticUniverse
Posts: 638
Joined: April 4th, 2015, 7:25 pm

Re: Do Thoughts Determine What Happens In Life?

Post by PoeticUniverse »

JackDaydream wrote: September 2nd, 2021, 3:55 am I am certainly not believing that my mindset has lead to the cause of the dripping water.
But it caused big floods in New York City and New Jersey yesterday…


What is Life?
User avatar
chewybrian
Posts: 1594
Joined: May 9th, 2018, 7:17 pm
Favorite Philosopher: Epictetus
Location: Florida man

Re: Do Thoughts Determine What Happens In Life?

Post by chewybrian »

JackDaydream wrote: September 2nd, 2021, 9:22 am chewybrian
I think that the writings of Ellis are very useful and I share his disillusionment with psychotherapy. I did some training in psychotherapy and art psychotherapy. What I found was that a lot of psychotherapy focuses on the negative and when I had some personal therapy while undertaking training is that dwelling on past negative experiences made me feel worse. Some people say you have to feel worse before you get to the point of feeling better. However, I am not sure that feeling worse is always followed by feeling better necessarily. The only thing which I would add is that I know that some people who have experienced cognitive approaches in therapy have found that it sometimes does not go deep enough and ignores the events of the past.. So, I would argue that any the past cannot be ignored and it does involve a careful balance.
I think you are right about the balance. CBT is likely to be king for a while because the results are verifiable and rather predictable and it does a pretty good job of putting symptoms in remission. It fits right in with the American medical model of treating symptoms first and not always bothering to attack root causes. But I do see a lot of value to it in that patients can self-treat and learn to carry some of the tricks with them.

REBT, for example, is super easy to put into practice. Something happens and you are sad, anxious or angry about it. You use the ABC model. A is the activating event, simply the thing that happened to trigger you. B is the irrational belief that you held about what you should be able to accomplish or what the world owed you. C is the consequence that you are sad, anxious or angry. Simply deconstruct the situation and explain to yourself that you had no right to expect that it would not rain, or that nobody would cut you off in traffic, or that you should be able to hit a home run every time at bat (or that you could never hit a home run). Remove the irrational belief and the sadness, anxiety or anger goes with it.

All the different forms of humanistic therapy are going to force you to look at some bad past experiences. How else are you going to see why you are in such a bad place now and how to work your way out of it but by understanding how you got there? But I don't see that they have to have the dark weird implications of Freudian type psychoanalysis. Even at the rather extreme end of Existential therapy, we might confront death, isolation, freedom and meaninglessness. As imposing as these ideas seem at first, we don't have to fear or dread approaching them. Rather, we acknowledge that these are real elements of our reality and experience, and simply learn how to best deal with what is.

Check out Rollo May if you want to see the positive side of existential therapy, all about creativity and self-actualization. This is a long video, but worth the time, IMO:
"If determinism holds, then past events have conspired to cause me to hold this view--it is out of my control. Either I am right about free will, or it is not my fault that I am wrong."
Post Reply

Return to “General Philosophy”

2023/2024 Philosophy Books of the Month

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise
by John K Danenbarger
January 2023

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul
by Mitzi Perdue
February 2023

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness
by Chet Shupe
March 2023

The Unfakeable Code®

The Unfakeable Code®
by Tony Jeton Selimi
April 2023

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are
by Alan Watts
May 2023

Killing Abel

Killing Abel
by Michael Tieman
June 2023

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead
by E. Alan Fleischauer
July 2023

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough
by Mark Unger
August 2023

Predictably Irrational

Predictably Irrational
by Dan Ariely
September 2023

Artwords

Artwords
by Beatriz M. Robles
November 2023

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope
by Dr. Randy Ross
December 2023

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes
by Ali Master
February 2024

2022 Philosophy Books of the Month

Emotional Intelligence At Work

Emotional Intelligence At Work
by Richard M Contino & Penelope J Holt
January 2022

Free Will, Do You Have It?

Free Will, Do You Have It?
by Albertus Kral
February 2022

My Enemy in Vietnam

My Enemy in Vietnam
by Billy Springer
March 2022

2X2 on the Ark

2X2 on the Ark
by Mary J Giuffra, PhD
April 2022

The Maestro Monologue

The Maestro Monologue
by Rob White
May 2022

What Makes America Great

What Makes America Great
by Bob Dowell
June 2022

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!
by Jerry Durr
July 2022

Living in Color

Living in Color
by Mike Murphy
August 2022 (tentative)

The Not So Great American Novel

The Not So Great American Novel
by James E Doucette
September 2022

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches
by John N. (Jake) Ferris
October 2022

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All
by Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
November 2022

The Smartest Person in the Room: The Root Cause and New Solution for Cybersecurity

The Smartest Person in the Room
by Christian Espinosa
December 2022

2021 Philosophy Books of the Month

The Biblical Clock: The Untold Secrets Linking the Universe and Humanity with God's Plan

The Biblical Clock
by Daniel Friedmann
March 2021

Wilderness Cry: A Scientific and Philosophical Approach to Understanding God and the Universe

Wilderness Cry
by Dr. Hilary L Hunt M.D.
April 2021

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute: Tools To Spark Your Dream And Ignite Your Follow-Through

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute
by Jeff Meyer
May 2021

Surviving the Business of Healthcare: Knowledge is Power

Surviving the Business of Healthcare
by Barbara Galutia Regis M.S. PA-C
June 2021

Winning the War on Cancer: The Epic Journey Towards a Natural Cure

Winning the War on Cancer
by Sylvie Beljanski
July 2021

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream
by Dr Frank L Douglas
August 2021

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts
by Mark L. Wdowiak
September 2021

The Preppers Medical Handbook

The Preppers Medical Handbook
by Dr. William W Forgey M.D.
October 2021

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress: A Practical Guide

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress
by Dr. Gustavo Kinrys, MD
November 2021

Dream For Peace: An Ambassador Memoir

Dream For Peace
by Dr. Ghoulem Berrah
December 2021