Is the meaning in your life inside or outside?

[chewybrian]

What matters, or what matters more, the state of your mind and the ideas and opinions within it, or your accomplishments and effects upon the outside world?

When Alexander the Great came to meet Diogenes, he asked him if there was any favor which he could do for him. Diogenes asked Alexander to move out of his sunlight so that he could continue enjoying the warmth. One man had conquered the world, and one had conquered the need to conquer the world. Which did something better for himself or for the world or for mankind? Alexander has a long list of cities that still bear his name. There is no "Diogenopolis" of which I am aware. Virtually everyone you might ask is likely to have heard of Alexander, yet fewer will know of Diogenes. Which, if either of them, appeals to you as a role model?

What about you? Do you seek to impose your will upon the world, to shape it in your own image? Do you wish to acquire or accomplish things before you die? Will your legacy be the material things or titles that you may pass on? Or, do you wish to acquire self-respect or tranquility? Will your legacy be confined mostly to the example of how to live well that you set while you were alive or the wisdom that you might pass on to others, so that they might also live in this way?

Which matters more to you and why?

[Pattern-chaser]

What matters, or what matters more, the state of your mind and the ideas and opinions within it, or your accomplishments and effects upon the outside world?

A general (i.e. non-personal) response:

I have long thought that most humans 'live' most of their lives in the world of human culture. [I use "culture" in its broadest sense.] We may exist in the 'real world' but it is Britney Spears and the next Super Bowl that occupy our thoughts and minds. For example, here in the UK, which one of these occupies the most people, "Strictly come dancing" or climate change? The former, by a mile.

What about you? Do you seek to impose your will upon the world, to shape it in your own image? Do you wish to acquire or accomplish things before you die? Will your legacy be the material things or titles that you may pass on? Or, do you wish to acquire self-respect or tranquility? Will your legacy be confined mostly to the example of how to live well that you set while you were alive or the wisdom that you might pass on to others, so that they might also live in this way?

Which matters more to you and why?

A personal response:

I would like to be remembered, ideally remembered fondly. And I would like to be happy while I'm still here. That's about it. No world-domination schemes from me!

[stevie]

What matters, or what matters more, the state of your mind and the ideas and opinions within it, or your accomplishments and effects upon the outside world?

When Alexander the Great came to meet Diogenes, he asked him if there was any favor which he could do for him. Diogenes asked Alexander to move out of his sunlight so that he could continue enjoying the warmth. One man had conquered the world, and one had conquered the need to conquer the world. Which did something better for himself or for the world or for mankind? Alexander has a long list of cities that still bear his name. There is no "Diogenopolis" of which I am aware. Virtually everyone you might ask is likely to have heard of Alexander, yet fewer will know of Diogenes. Which, if either of them, appeals to you as a role model?

What about you?

Do you seek to impose your will upon the world, to shape it in your own image? Do you wish to acquire or accomplish things before you die? Will your legacy be the material things or titles that you may pass on? Or, do you wish to acquire self-respect or tranquility? Will your legacy be confined mostly to the example of how to live well that you set while you were alive or the wisdom that you might pass on to others, so that they might also live in this way?

No. No. No. Preserve (not acquire) tranquility. No.

Which matters more to you and why?

I've only answered one of your questions in the affirmative. But that is far from assigning a meaning to my life. Actually "meaning of life" isn't an important concept for me but I deal with it only in the context of others being bothered about it.

[Ecurb]

Another Diogenes story: Alexander once found Diogenes rooting around in a cemetary. "What are you doing?" asked Alexander.

"I am looking for the bones of your ancestors," Diogenes replied. "But I find I cannot distinguish them from those of their slaves."

[JackDaydream]

@chewybrian
I know what you mean by the 'inside' and 'outside', but even such categories may be a bit dualistic from the embodied perspective of constructing meaning in life.

[Tegularius]

The more one searches for it on the outside, that being a wasteland, the more prone to cast one's glance inward. Yearning to be remembered is the temporary condition of an ego that wishes to survive mortality. No point in wishing to be remembered if for the rest of eternity you can't remember having been here. Not least, when people remember anything of you, they usually get it wrong anyway.

[Sy Borg]

What matters, or what matters more, the state of your mind and the ideas and opinions within it, or your accomplishments and effects upon the outside world?

When Alexander the Great came to meet Diogenes, he asked him if there was any favor which he could do for him. Diogenes asked Alexander to move out of his sunlight so that he could continue enjoying the warmth. One man had conquered the world, and one had conquered the need to conquer the world. Which did something better for himself or for the world or for mankind? Alexander has a long list of cities that still bear his name. There is no "Diogenopolis" of which I am aware. Virtually everyone you might ask is likely to have heard of Alexander, yet fewer will know of Diogenes. Which, if either of them, appeals to you as a role model?

What about you? Do you seek to impose your will upon the world, to shape it in your own image? Do you wish to acquire or accomplish things before you die? Will your legacy be the material things or titles that you may pass on? Or, do you wish to acquire self-respect or tranquility? Will your legacy be confined mostly to the example of how to live well that you set while you were alive or the wisdom that you might pass on to others, so that they might also live in this way?

Which matters more to you and why?

I have always bumbled on from day-to-day, with a vague-to-non-existent vision of the future. Still, along the way I've been consumed by work and other projects that turned out to be useful to some people, so that's better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick. A touch of Diogenism flavoured with a dash of Alexandrism?

In the end, both Alexander and Diogenes were rabble-rousers of the first order. While one killed and conquered, the other publicly pooped and pleasured himself. In context, the middle ground looks good.

[LuckyR]

What matters, or what matters more, the state of your mind and the ideas and opinions within it, or your accomplishments and effects upon the outside world?

When Alexander the Great came to meet Diogenes, he asked him if there was any favor which he could do for him. Diogenes asked Alexander to move out of his sunlight so that he could continue enjoying the warmth. One man had conquered the world, and one had conquered the need to conquer the world. Which did something better for himself or for the world or for mankind? Alexander has a long list of cities that still bear his name. There is no "Diogenopolis" of which I am aware. Virtually everyone you might ask is likely to have heard of Alexander, yet fewer will know of Diogenes. Which, if either of them, appeals to you as a role model?

What about you? Do you seek to impose your will upon the world, to shape it in your own image? Do you wish to acquire or accomplish things before you die? Will your legacy be the material things or titles that you may pass on? Or, do you wish to acquire self-respect or tranquility? Will your legacy be confined mostly to the example of how to live well that you set while you were alive or the wisdom that you might pass on to others, so that they might also live in this way?

Which matters more to you and why?

I care about the opinons of those I care about. Getting accolades from folks who mean nothing to me, means nothing to me. This is the opposite of current online trend. Getting approval from 10,000 nobodies is the goal of many Gen Z folk. I would much rather bring $1000 of value to 250 people a year than 10 cents of value to 2.5 million.

I could have pursued a career that consumed my life and was very noble, but I am a bit too selfish for that sort of thing. I wanted a family, free time to spend with them and resources to maximize my enjoyment of that time.

[chewybrian]

What matters, or what matters more, the state of your mind and the ideas and opinions within it, or your accomplishments and effects upon the outside world?

A general (i.e. non-personal) response:

I have long thought that most humans 'live' most of their lives in the world of human culture. [I use "culture" in its broadest sense.] We may exist in the 'real world' but it is Britney Spears and the next Super Bowl that occupy our thoughts and minds. For example, here in the UK, which one of these occupies the most people, "Strictly come dancing" or climate change? The former, by a mile.

I think you are on to something important, though maybe not quite on topic. We often confuse our models with reality, or choose seemingly pleasant
distractions over seemingly unpleasant truth. We have an amazing ability to attach importance to almost anything we choose and to detach importance from other things which, if we are honest with ourselves, should be seen as more important. And, sadly, there are lots of folks who wish to manipulate us for their own selfish ends by convincing us too attach importance to (what should be seen as) the wrong things. I suppose if you fall into the Brittany Spears trap, you are not choosing between trying to improve yourself or trying to improve the world. You are more likely choosing not to try to improve at all, but simply distract yourself from the need to improve, if you feel the need at all.

What about you? Do you seek to impose your will upon the world, to shape it in your own image? Do you wish to acquire or accomplish things before you die? Will your legacy be the material things or titles that you may pass on? Or, do you wish to acquire self-respect or tranquility? Will your legacy be confined mostly to the example of how to live well that you set while you were alive or the wisdom that you might pass on to others, so that they might also live in this way?

Which matters more to you and why?

A personal response:

I would like to be remembered, ideally remembered fondly. And I would like to be happy while I'm still here. That's about it. No world-domination schemes from me!

Mental note, Patternchaser knows too much...

[Belindi]

My life has no meaning apart from the meanings that I and others tack on to it. There is no such thing as meaning apart from consciousness.

It's most important for my mental and emotional health, and for people who love me, to recognise that part of my feelings that is impregnable.That part is not personality or persona which are influenced by others.

[chewybrian]

Another Diogenes story: Alexander once found Diogenes rooting around in a cemetary. "What are you doing?" asked Alexander.

"I am looking for the bones of your ancestors," Diogenes replied. "But I find I cannot distinguish them from those of their slaves."

I would like to hear any and all Diogenes stories. I think his cynicism is valuable, but the stories of his behavior are more interesting. I think he was using shock value to jolt people into realizing that they were often being phony and missing out on their lives by living a lie, chasing all the wrong things and missing the free, simple pleasures all around them.

I know that he would walk the streets in the daytime with a lantern, claiming to be searching for an honest man. He would hug marble statues that were very hot or cold, to show people that they could endure much more than they might think they could (though Epictetus specifically warned that these public displays were not the right path, that stoic exercises were for the person doing them, not for show). He lived in a clay pot in the city square and begged for food or money. His possessions seemed to be limited to his pot and a cloak and little else. He is said to have discarded his drinking cup when he saw a child drinking from his hands.

I think he is really on to something important in teaching us that possessions often own the possessor as much as she might think she owns them, that our time and attention can be stolen from the most important aspects of life by these shiny objects that add up to nothing in the end. I don't know how genuine the behavior is, or if much of it might just be an attempt to bring attention to his cause. My takeaway is that if he can live simply in such an extreme way, then I can make some small "sacrifices" for my own peace of mind.

[chewybrian]

I've only answered one of your questions in the affirmative. But that is far from assigning a meaning to my life. Actually "meaning of life" isn't an important concept for me but I deal with it only in the context of others being bothered about it.

@chewybrian
I know what you mean by the 'inside' and 'outside', but even such categories may be a bit dualistic from the embodied perspective of constructing meaning in life.

Feel free to substitute "happiness" or "quality of life" or "tranquility" or whatever suits you. I am only concerned here with rather we should focus inwardly or outwardly to make progress. It is a separate issue whether there is anything such as progress, whether there is a point to anything we do, or what that point might be. I don't care if you want to take a side path to discuss these things, but maybe I created a distraction by using the word "meaning", as it carries so much extra baggage for philosophers.

[stevie]

Feel free to substitute "happiness" or "quality of life" or "tranquility" or whatever suits you. I am only concerned here with rather we should focus inwardly or outwardly to make progress. It is a separate issue whether there is anything such as progress, whether there is a point to anything we do, or what that point might be. I don't care if you want to take a side path to discuss these things, but maybe I created a distraction by using the word "meaning", as it carries so much extra baggage for philosophers.

Considering your words I guess it's both, inwardly and outwardly. Even I opted for 'preserving tranquility' and that appears to be "inwardly" there are conditions "outwardly" that may either support or undermine what I desire and which I therefore have to take into consideration and/or even seek or renounce. But since "outwardly" only is an additional condition for "inwardly" the main focus seems to be "inwardly".

[Ecurb]

I would like to hear any and all Diogenes stories.

Here's my favorite:

Flattery and praise led the hedonistic philosopher Aristippus to win a comfortable, paid position in the court of Dionysius, the tyrant of Syracuyse. One day, observing Diogenes preparing a meager meal of lentils in the barrel in which he lived, Arristippus offered some advice. "If you would learn to compliment Dionysius," he said, "You wouldn't have to live in a barrel and eat nothing but lentils.

"And if you would learn to live in a barreloand eat nothing but lentils, you wouldn't have to flatter Dionysius," responded Diogenes.

[chewybrian]

I would like to hear any and all Diogenes stories.

Here's my favorite:

Flattery and praise led the hedonistic philosopher Aristippus to win a comfortable, paid position in the court of Dionysius, the tyrant of Syracuyse. One day, observing Diogenes preparing a meager meal of lentils in the barrel in which he lived, Arristippus offered some advice. "If you would learn to compliment Dionysius," he said, "You wouldn't have to live in a barrel and eat nothing but lentils.

"And if you would learn to live in a barreloand eat nothing but lentils, you wouldn't have to flatter Dionysius," responded Diogenes.

This reminds me of one of my favorite instructions from Epictetus, from the Enchiridion:

For how can he who does not frequent the door of any [great] man, does not attend him, does not praise him, have an equal share with him who does? You are unjust, then, and insatiable, if you are unwilling to pay the price for which these things are sold, and would have them for nothing. For how much is lettuce sold? Fifty cents, for instance. If another, then, paying fifty cents, takes the lettuce, and you, not paying it, go without them, don't imagine that he has gained any advantage over you. For as he has the lettuce, so you have the fifty cents which you did not give. So, in the present case, you have not been invited to such a person's entertainment, because you have not paid him the price for which a supper is sold. It is sold for praise; it is sold for attendance. Give him then the value, if it is for your advantage. But if you would, at the same time, not pay the one and yet receive the other, you are insatiable, and a blockhead. Have you nothing, then, instead of the supper? Yes, indeed, you have: the not praising him, whom you don't like to praise; the not bearing with his behavior at coming in.

"You are a blockhead, Charlie Brown!"---I love that translation.