Yes, the spiritual marketplace is as competitive as any other, be it sporting, business, real estate, or selling used cars. More so; they sometimes fight to the death over their differences.Belindi wrote: ↑November 24th, 2021, 8:04 amI agree with Sy Borg. If I may paraphrase, Mysticism is sometimes a gateway to elitism. This is why the old churchmen voted for Irenaeus instead of Valentinus. The Gospels are overwhelmingly NOT elitist. True, churches must have some system of governance but that ought not to imply spiritual superiority among the governors.Sy Borg wrote: ↑November 24th, 2021, 1:06 amI recognise your householder views from Gurdjieff. I think G was simply doing what a lot of mystics do, he was trying to discourage opposition. "Householders" are no threat, so he gives them a lukewarm gong - still nowhere near the level of him and his most obedient followers. I note that,m in religions, the most "lost" are always their opposition, not the neutrals. Scientology does the same. Ditto Jehovah's Witnesses, Islam and Catholicism. All of these belief systems reserve their biggest slams for the main opponents and speak rather less harshly about the masses so as to not galvanise an otherwise neutral majority against them. It's pretty standard politics really. I'm surprised people still swallow it.Nick_A wrote: ↑November 23rd, 2021, 11:45 pmThere are many fine people living in Plato's cave. They are called good householders. They are responsible people and good to others. A good householder evolves more quickly than experts in BS. But again, there are these few questioning what it means and why there is such a struggle between the lower and higher parts of ourselves and are willing to endure self knowledge to find out. My interest in philosophy encourages me to support this minority struggling for individuality: to BE.Sy Borg wrote: ↑November 23rd, 2021, 9:38 pm
Maybe in about 100 million years ... again, there's no rush. The universe is an infant. Do you expect an infant to perform calculus?
The Earth is also evolving and our species on it evolves at this same rate. A day for the Earth can be equivalent to a generation for humanity. However a person has the chance for "accelerated evolution" which is why the Christ allowed himself to experience the Cross and open a path for humanity
A horse is a horse. Are we now supposed to identify them as stallions and mares so the mares won't be insulted? Does everyone have to bend over for PC silliness?
The tendency, as the universe cools, is the opposite - ever more particulation and complexification.
At this stage we depart because you are referring to a schema I simply don't believe. Besides, plenty of people integrate their rationality, emotionalism and appetites in a balanced way, especially with life experience. I don't buy the idea that certain (religious) people with a particular life hack (religious practice) have a future of growth in the universe while other people, with different approaches to life, are essentially pointless beasts.
Is there a quality of objective meaning a person can experience above the human ability to interpret and devolve it into transient subjective meaning? Some say yes while the majority say no. At least we have established that.
People struggle with all manner of learning during their lives, both extrinsic and intrinsic. I do not think the struggles you speak of are unique to Gurdjieff's cult any more than they are unique to any self-regarding esoteric group. Further, people not aligned to your kind of thinking have all manner of extraordinary experiences and insights. How can they possible do that without special teaching in overcoming the tripartate soul?
Mystics may be the sort of people who have intuitions of God, gods, or eternal truths. That sort of mystic has natural, not supernatural, powers and that sort of mystic may be an artist, a musician, a scientist, or a mathematician, i.e. completely this-worldly .There is no short cut to true mysticism ; professed knowledge of supernatural goings-on is a sign of either charlatanism or superstition.
That, to me, is an issue. If there is any field that would ideally eschew worldly competitiveness, it's spirituality. So I baulk at spiritual elitism. Maybe I'm just idealistic, but the focus should be on "flocks" being better people than they were yesterday, as opposed to being better than some reviled other. Playing a zero sum game is religious but not spiritual.