The Tunnel Problem

Use this philosophy forum to discuss and debate general philosophy topics that don't fit into one of the other categories.

This forum is NOT for factual, informational or scientific questions about philosophy (e.g. "What year was Socrates born?"). Those kind of questions can be asked in the off-topic section.
Post Reply
WanderingGaze22
Posts: 223
Joined: June 9th, 2021, 12:39 am

The Tunnel Problem

Post by WanderingGaze22 »

The tunnel problem is a thought experiment based on the classic trolley problem designed to focus on the ethics of high-speed vehicles, as well as the question of who gets to decide how they react in life-and-death scenarios.
The tunnel problem scenario is as follows:

You are travelling along a single lane mountain road in a car clocking in about 60 MPH (96 K) and approaching a narrow tunnel entrance. 10 seconds before entering the tunnel, an unaccompanied child attempts to run across the road but trips in the center of the lane, effectively blocking the entrance to the tunnel. The car has but two options: hit and kill the child, or swerve into the wall on either side of the tunnel, potentially lethal to you. How should the car react? Give your reasoning for your choice.

This thought experiments is ideal on the topic of autonomous cars. The premise of these thought experiments is that even with highly sophisticated self-driving-car technologies, the cars, just like people will face situations where harm cannot be avoided.
User avatar
LuckyR
Moderator
Posts: 7932
Joined: January 18th, 2015, 1:16 am

Re: The Tunnel Problem

Post by LuckyR »

WanderingGaze22 wrote: November 22nd, 2021, 3:18 am The tunnel problem is a thought experiment based on the classic trolley problem designed to focus on the ethics of high-speed vehicles, as well as the question of who gets to decide how they react in life-and-death scenarios.
The tunnel problem scenario is as follows:

You are travelling along a single lane mountain road in a car clocking in about 60 MPH (96 K) and approaching a narrow tunnel entrance. 10 seconds before entering the tunnel, an unaccompanied child attempts to run across the road but trips in the center of the lane, effectively blocking the entrance to the tunnel. The car has but two options: hit and kill the child, or swerve into the wall on either side of the tunnel, potentially lethal to you. How should the car react? Give your reasoning for your choice.

This thought experiments is ideal on the topic of autonomous cars. The premise of these thought experiments is that even with highly sophisticated self-driving-car technologies, the cars, just like people will face situations where harm cannot be avoided.
It doesn't matter. Either is acceptable. No particular choice needs to be made. It is an error to suppose there is a risk-free path.

OTOH if it is a self driving car there is a best answer (and it is not even close) : brake hard but avoid an accident. Why? The car can't tell the difference between a child in the road and a sack of potatoes or a mannequin.
"As usual... it depends."
User avatar
Sculptor1
Posts: 7086
Joined: May 16th, 2019, 5:35 am

Re: The Tunnel Problem

Post by Sculptor1 »

WanderingGaze22 wrote: November 22nd, 2021, 3:18 am The tunnel problem is a thought experiment based on the classic trolley problem designed to focus on the ethics of high-speed vehicles, as well as the question of who gets to decide how they react in life-and-death scenarios.
The tunnel problem scenario is as follows:

You are travelling along a single lane mountain road in a car clocking in about 60 MPH (96 K) and approaching a narrow tunnel entrance. 10 seconds before entering the tunnel, an unaccompanied child attempts to run across the road but trips in the center of the lane, effectively blocking the entrance to the tunnel. The car has but two options: hit and kill the child, or swerve into the wall on either side of the tunnel, potentially lethal to you. How should the car react? Give your reasoning for your choice.

This thought experiments is ideal on the topic of autonomous cars. The premise of these thought experiments is that even with highly sophisticated self-driving-car technologies, the cars, just like people will face situations where harm cannot be avoided.
That is a pretty poor problem.
If I had, as you say 10 seconds, I would just put my foot and the brakes, pull over the the side of the road. and pick up the child, and move her to safety.
Traveling at 60mph, means you are doing a mile per minute. 10 seconds is 1/6 of a mile. which is 873 feet.

You have 873 feet to think and stop. That is masses of time.
The Highway Code UK worked out stopping distances for their driving licence test in the days before ABS and disc brakes. They determined that the correct stopping disance at 60mph is only 240 feet. Modern cars can stop in a fraction of that disatnce. And would only take maybe 3 seconds.

Cars clocked with the "Worst Breaking Distances at 0-60, are around 140 feet.
WorldWide WEB*consumerreports dot org/car-safety/best-and-worst-braking-distances-a2960086475/
Alan Masterman
Posts: 219
Joined: March 27th, 2011, 8:03 am

Re: The Tunnel Problem

Post by Alan Masterman »

Masterly reply, Sculptor1! But of course, the ethical problem remains, and the question stands; it is not really a question of braking distances.

The "correct" response will, in the first instance, be conditioned by the moral convictions of the driver. Obviously, if he is a sincere Muslim, Christian, Buddhist, or in fact an adherent of almost any religious system, he will drive himself over the cliff rather than risk the life of the child. On the other hand, if he is a thoroughgoing egotist or nihilist, he will knock the child out of the way. The onus is then on a notional third party or independent viewpoint to show, if possible, why that response was wrong or not wrong. Such a viewpoint would be that of God.
User avatar
LuckyR
Moderator
Posts: 7932
Joined: January 18th, 2015, 1:16 am

Re: The Tunnel Problem

Post by LuckyR »

Alan Masterman wrote: January 13th, 2022, 2:37 pm Masterly reply, Sculptor1! But of course, the ethical problem remains, and the question stands; it is not really a question of braking distances.

The "correct" response will, in the first instance, be conditioned by the moral convictions of the driver. Obviously, if he is a sincere Muslim, Christian, Buddhist, or in fact an adherent of almost any religious system, he will drive himself over the cliff rather than risk the life of the child. On the other hand, if he is a thoroughgoing egotist or nihilist, he will knock the child out of the way. The onus is then on a notional third party or independent viewpoint to show, if possible, why that response was wrong or not wrong. Such a viewpoint would be that of God.
I am confused, where is the evidence that members of religions are less selfpreserving than those not affiliated with religions?
"As usual... it depends."
Post Reply

Return to “General Philosophy”

2023/2024 Philosophy Books of the Month

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise
by John K Danenbarger
January 2023

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul
by Mitzi Perdue
February 2023

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness
by Chet Shupe
March 2023

The Unfakeable Code®

The Unfakeable Code®
by Tony Jeton Selimi
April 2023

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are
by Alan Watts
May 2023

Killing Abel

Killing Abel
by Michael Tieman
June 2023

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead
by E. Alan Fleischauer
July 2023

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough
by Mark Unger
August 2023

Predictably Irrational

Predictably Irrational
by Dan Ariely
September 2023

Artwords

Artwords
by Beatriz M. Robles
November 2023

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope
by Dr. Randy Ross
December 2023

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes
by Ali Master
February 2024

2022 Philosophy Books of the Month

Emotional Intelligence At Work

Emotional Intelligence At Work
by Richard M Contino & Penelope J Holt
January 2022

Free Will, Do You Have It?

Free Will, Do You Have It?
by Albertus Kral
February 2022

My Enemy in Vietnam

My Enemy in Vietnam
by Billy Springer
March 2022

2X2 on the Ark

2X2 on the Ark
by Mary J Giuffra, PhD
April 2022

The Maestro Monologue

The Maestro Monologue
by Rob White
May 2022

What Makes America Great

What Makes America Great
by Bob Dowell
June 2022

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!
by Jerry Durr
July 2022

Living in Color

Living in Color
by Mike Murphy
August 2022 (tentative)

The Not So Great American Novel

The Not So Great American Novel
by James E Doucette
September 2022

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches
by John N. (Jake) Ferris
October 2022

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All
by Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
November 2022

The Smartest Person in the Room: The Root Cause and New Solution for Cybersecurity

The Smartest Person in the Room
by Christian Espinosa
December 2022

2021 Philosophy Books of the Month

The Biblical Clock: The Untold Secrets Linking the Universe and Humanity with God's Plan

The Biblical Clock
by Daniel Friedmann
March 2021

Wilderness Cry: A Scientific and Philosophical Approach to Understanding God and the Universe

Wilderness Cry
by Dr. Hilary L Hunt M.D.
April 2021

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute: Tools To Spark Your Dream And Ignite Your Follow-Through

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute
by Jeff Meyer
May 2021

Surviving the Business of Healthcare: Knowledge is Power

Surviving the Business of Healthcare
by Barbara Galutia Regis M.S. PA-C
June 2021

Winning the War on Cancer: The Epic Journey Towards a Natural Cure

Winning the War on Cancer
by Sylvie Beljanski
July 2021

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream
by Dr Frank L Douglas
August 2021

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts
by Mark L. Wdowiak
September 2021

The Preppers Medical Handbook

The Preppers Medical Handbook
by Dr. William W Forgey M.D.
October 2021

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress: A Practical Guide

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress
by Dr. Gustavo Kinrys, MD
November 2021

Dream For Peace: An Ambassador Memoir

Dream For Peace
by Dr. Ghoulem Berrah
December 2021