What Makes Philosophy Interesting and Important in Life?

[stevie]

@stevie
The internal world of experiences and its expression by verbal means is a central aspect of human experiences, but it is important to think about what lies behind it.

I think that expression reveals that there is no possibility of 'communication about', i.e. conversation . That expression "it is important to think about what lies behind it" reveals the speculative nature of JackDaydream's aproach.

[JackDaydream]

@stevie

Of course, to a large extent my own approach to philosophy is based on speculation, but, not entirely, because as was apparent in another thread I do see logic as being extremely important, as well as the findings in the empirical sciences. Beyond these, I am not sure what approaches there can be philosophy discussion.

The logical positivist perspective was about the way in which ideas are limited by the scope of language, and Wittgenstein recognized this too. However, in 'Language, Truth and Logic', Ayer acknowledged that human beings are going to speculate. The point may be that it is worth being honest with others and with ourselves about speculating. How can humans access 'truth' which is beyond speculation, even if it is based on intuition? Even evidence based research has some biases, including the role of the participant observer.

[stevie]

@stevie

Of course, to a large extent my own approach to philosophy is based on speculation, but ...

There is no "but" that would not qualify as speculation.

[Sy Borg]

@Sy Borg

My own appreciation of music is more about inner experience and is definitely not as a 'social lubricant'. I often lie down and close my eyes and sometimes I see imagery when listening to it. I have some experiences of synthasaesia and I can particular remember this happening when listening to the music of The Fall and The Inspiral Carpets. I like to be able to draw upon such images in making art or in writing fiction, although I have not done much of this in the last 2 to 3 years because I had too much stress. Apart from losing my job, my mother was ill and died about 7 and a half weeks ago. But, now I am wishing to find a creative pathway in life.

I am glad to hear that you have read Colin Wilson because he was one of the writers who has influenced me the most, especially his book, 'The Outsider'. Reading this was such a turning point and it was this book which lead me towards others, such as Nietzsche. What I like so much about Colin Wilson is his own exploration of creativity and the associated mental states involved in the process. Earlier this year, I read his final book 'Super Consciousness' and this focuses on peak experiences. Although these cannot just be gained at will, I do see these as being extremely important. Even though philosophy is about explanations, heightened states of consciousness are part of a quest for truth which may run parallel to it.

CW is brilliant and fascinating, but I have mostly forgotten what he wrote, other than something to the effect of, "To disprove the claim that 'All crows are black' one need only find one white crow" (or something like that).

One thing is certain. Anyone who says that peak experiences don't matter has not had one. It's common for people to think they have had peak experiences, confusing them with exceptional flow states during acts of creation. When you advise that those flow states are not at all like peak experiences, they usually assume mental illness.

[Tegularius]

Whatever that may be is of secondary importance compared to the reality we're in. Philosophizing is tantamount to mythologizing and, more often than not, mystifying...most of it rehashed and recycled; good only to feed academics.

[Sy Borg]

Tegularius, I agree that morphology and environment set the limits on our experiences.

Still, there's still a considerable number of possible experiences people and other animals can have within those limitations. I think of the situation as less about primary or secondary importance as fulfilling needs and wants as per Maslow.

I think of philosophising* as standard human behaviour. That's the human advantage - being able to understand what's going on around them in detail. Humans didn't need to work out everything about their reality. Early humans just needed to understand situations better than competing species.

Still, the impulse to better understand continues apace from the first time young children flummox their parents with tricky existential questions ... Mummy, why do people die?

* as opposed to the academic field of philosophy, that informs legal, medical, welfare and other professionals.

[JackDaydream]

@stevie
Do you believe that it is possible to go beyond the 'ifs' and 'buts' which arise in our thinking about life and existence? There seem to be so many exceptions to rules, and, especially to black and white thinking, or even logic.

[Nick_A]

Jack

Do you believe that it is possible to go beyond the 'ifs' and 'buts' which arise in our thinking about life and existence? There seem to be so many exceptions to rules, and, especially to black and white thinking, or even logic.

“When a contradiction is impossible to resolve except by a lie, then we know that it is really a door.”
― Simone Weil

As I've seen in the world, most prefer to argue the duality of black and white. I'd love to meet those who have impartially experienced their contradiction and experienced the door. I did this once. I think that is the most important function of philosophy. it makes it possible to experience the door.

[JackDaydream]

@Nick-A
Questions of duality and grey areas are so complex. I struggle with them on a daily basis, and this is probably why I come to forum discussions. Personally, I see so many shades, and colours. I am not of the view that there may be basic philosophy questions and areas for questioning. However, I am not a complete relativist, but there does appear to be so much complexity in life, and attention to unique particulars may be so important. The understanding of universal aspects and the unique may need to blended in so many aspects of life, including moral and psychological understanding.

[Nick_A]

@Nick-A
Questions of duality and grey areas are so complex. I struggle with them on a daily basis, and this is probably why I come to forum discussions. Personally, I see so many shades, and colours. I am not of the view that there may be basic philosophy questions and areas for questioning. However, I am not a complete relativist, but there does appear to be so much complexity in life, and attention to unique particulars may be so important. The understanding of universal aspects and the unique may need to blended in so many aspects of life, including moral and psychological understanding.

I think that that it is normal to try and explain gray areas by rationalizations. Simone is describing what can happen when a contradiction is experienced without rationalization.

Say a person has belief in higher ideals and Man's love for Man. Then becomes a closet rapist. He says one thing while doing another. Simone said that when a person receives the influences of their higher conscious parts of their essence but cannot stop indulging their lower parts, they are experiencing a contradiction if they do so without a lie to justify it, it leads to the door of understanding

[JackDaydream]

@Nick-A
The idea of the 'closet rapist' is an interesting one and , perhaps one can be the rapist of one's own self, or the inner saboteur, through self destructive mechanismsTo some extent, each person may live with a certain amount of contradictions and some people may not even be aware of these. The higher and lower aspects of self can be blended in such a subtle way, and that is why I think that Jung's idea of 'the shadow' is so important. Probably, each of us carries a shadow side and it needs to be focused upon personality before it can even be disclosed with others. We may be individuals wandering outside of Plato's cave still hiding in great big dark shadows. Perhaps, it is necessary to work and understand the self, and it's dark side, as the first step in liberating oneself for healing of internal wounds and reaching out to the suffering of other human beings.

[Nick_A]

@Nick-A
The idea of the 'closet rapist' is an interesting one and , perhaps one can be the rapist of one's own self, or the inner saboteur, through self destructive mechanismsTo some extent, each person may live with a certain amount of contradictions and some people may not even be aware of these. The higher and lower aspects of self can be blended in such a subtle way, and that is why I think that Jung's idea of 'the shadow' is so important. Probably, each of us carries a shadow side and it needs to be focused upon personality before it can even be disclosed with others. We may be individuals wandering outside of Plato's cave still hiding in great big dark shadows. Perhaps, it is necessary to work and understand the self, and it's dark side, as the first step in liberating oneself for healing of internal wounds and reaching out to the suffering of other human beings.

The concept of the shadow as I understand it, deals with suppressed personality and I agree that healing the personality is extremely important. However the philosophy which concerns me deals with the essence of a person or what we are born with. It deals with balancing the tripartite soul.

[Tegularius]

Tegularius, I agree that morphology and environment set the limits on our experiences.

Still, there's still a considerable number of possible experiences people and other animals can have within those limitations. I think of the situation as less about primary or secondary importance as fulfilling needs and wants as per Maslow.

Yes, there are many kinds of experiences possible; that may include some that haven’t yet been experienced. But if philosophy is primarily a matter of fulfilling needs, then even the Nick-A types are philosophers and not the dead-ends they prove themselves to be. Signing on to a needs dogma encompasses those impossible to argue against. When philosophy becomes personal it shows itself as less debatable, more theistic and intransigent.

I think of philosophising* as standard human behaviour. That's the human advantage - being able to understand what's going on around them in detail. Humans didn't need to work out everything about their reality. Early humans just needed to understand situations better than competing species.

Again I agree but so is myth, religion and every kind of fiction. Like all of these, philosophy has done nothing to make the world any better. To put it bluntly, you’d think after a few thousand years of philosophizing, the world would be in much better shape. Nothing of the kind! The world seems to be sinking in its own morass of aberrations...things that simply make no sense any more, ultra vires to any of the laws of logic.

Philosophy exists only as a discipline denoted by semantics and linguistics, etc., and almost nothing of heuristics which would obviate most of the crap inherent in all our accumulated wisdom.

[Sy Borg]

Tegularius, I agree that morphology and environment set the limits on our experiences.

Still, there's still a considerable number of possible experiences people and other animals can have within those limitations. I think of the situation as less about primary or secondary importance as fulfilling needs and wants as per Maslow.

Yes, there are many kinds of experiences possible; that may include some that haven’t yet been experienced. But if philosophy is primarily a matter of fulfilling needs, then even the Nick-A types are philosophers and not the dead-ends they prove themselves to be. Signing on to a needs dogma encompasses those impossible to argue against. When philosophy becomes personal it shows itself as less debatable, more theistic and intransigent.

I think of philosophising* as standard human behaviour. That's the human advantage - being able to understand what's going on around them in detail. Humans didn't need to work out everything about their reality. Early humans just needed to understand situations better than competing species.

Again I agree but so is myth, religion and every kind of fiction. Like all of these, philosophy has done nothing to make the world any better. To put it bluntly, you’d think after a few thousand years of philosophizing, the world would be in much better shape. Nothing of the kind! The world seems to be sinking in its own morass of aberrations...things that simply make no sense any more, ultra vires to any of the laws of logic.

Philosophy exists only as a discipline denoted by semantics and linguistics, etc., and almost nothing of heuristics which would obviate most of the crap inherent in all our accumulated wisdom.

As a matter of interest, why did you choose to join a philosophy forum? Based on these words, you don't seem to like the idea of people thinking about life, the universe and everything. However, based on your body of posts, you are clearly extremely interested yourself.

You are imagining that philosophy is global when it is regional. It's true that, as has been the case throughout history, philosophy (along with every other discipline or practice) has not unseated the robber barons that inevitably rise to the top. It seems unfair to consider the state of the world to be philosophy's failure.

Personally, I'd blame natural selection, even if humans don't like to refer to their own societal dynamics as natural selection, even though it follows the same principles. You know how it is, humans don't like to think they are animals. They imagine they are something more, something special. Two legs good, four legs bad.

They forget that there was a time when trilobites ruled the Earth, capable of sensing the world better than any other organism. Just like us. I expect that, if trilobites were self conscious, they would have thought themselves divine too, the ultimate expression of creation made in the image of their trilobite deities.

The fact is that evolution doesn't care if an organism is happy or comfortable, just as long as it survives long enough to produce viable offspring. Ditto humans, whom are tending to be troubled in the 2020s, but the birth rate remains double the death rate. Interesting times ahead.

[JackDaydream]

@Nick-A
So how does one balance the tripartite aspects of self. Does it involve self mastery, which is important but not always that easy. Based on my own reading of Jung, balance may involve the balance between sensations, emotions, rationality and intuition. Each person has these balanced differently and usually has an inferior one and a stronger one. The ideal may be about being able to draw upon all of them as a way of integral balance.